Is Being a Victim Like a Drug?

Hello ladies...I wasn't sure whether to post this here or in the caring for our parents section or what...anyway, it concerns my mother-in-law and her continued need to support her crack head daughter...for those of you how have read about Robin, you know the story...now my focus in on my MIL.

Is it possible that the reason my MIL refuses to eject her drugie daughter from her life is because she is getting something by being needed by her? My MIL has a boyfriend, she has other 'sane' grown kids who love her but who hate coming around when Robin's there. She's able to come and go as she pleases but she just REFUSES, REFUSES, REFUSES....to listen to any of us. Therefore, am I missing something? Does she enjoy this? Personally, I think she's at the point she needs more help than Robin. Robin blames my MIL for everything....and I mean everything that is bad in Robin's life...of course, Robin won't say that to any of us...it's only when she is alone with her mother. Those of us who know the situation feel it's not a matter of 'if', but a matter of 'when' Robin physically hurts her...we know she's already slapped her and threatened to wreck the car with my MIL in it...but my MIL, even having gone through and heard this, refuses to place Robin in a place where she can benefit...Robin cannot manage her life at all...she's such a controller now that she parks her butt under mom as much as she can and the second she needs drug money she comes up with an excuse that the money is needed for something else and MIL believes it and gives it to her. My husband has had enough and doesn't even want Robin's name spoken in our house anymore. He's lost respect for his mother and although he would never tell her this (maybe he should) he will be there for her but not for Robin.
Does anyone have any ideas, suggestions, directions, this family can take? Or do I just need to let it go and forget about it? I truly am haunted by my 73 year old MIL's face...she's tired, worried, has her own medical problems which of course Robin could care less about.
Does anyone know about Victim neediness? Is that what my MIL feeds on? Any ideas out there?

Dee, it sounds like your MIL and her daughter have a codependent realtionship that fulfills a basic survival need for her daughter and possibly an emotional need for your MIL. Your MIL may have self esteem, self worth issues that might be helped with cognitive therapy. Would she be willing to try that?

I think she might be a little afraid of Robin. Her hitting your MIL really bothers me. Somebody in the family has to address this in some way but if your MIL won't report the abuse, there isn't much you can legally do without witnessing it yourself. This is really a horrible situation.

Vicki,
No way would my MIL go into therapy. My husband (her son) and I were surprised when she went with us last year to a drug counselor (once)...he was straight with her about Robin and and my MIL's role in enabling. Mom acknowledged everything the man said but the minute we got outside she returned to her old self...I know he's right, but... and she went right then and there and paid for some or Robin's attorney fee's for hot check's she'd written...instead of letting Robin sit in jail for what she did, my MIL bailed her out yet again. I'm dumbfounded. All I can say is thank God Robin doesn't come around me or my home...I would have her arrested for trespassing.

Dianne, Yes, it bothers me as well. I could never raise my hand to anyone, much less my Mother. All the kids are very angry about all this but our hands are tied because mom won't go against her daughter. My MIL has been kindda quiet these past few days...I think Robin must be hanging around her a lot...it makes me sick. My sister-in-law called me today...she had talked with our MIL today and she tried getting through to her...nothing new to hear she didn't. She wants my husband and his siter to talk to mom...can'ta get her to understand that they've already tried...brick wall. God, this is frustrating.

Hi Dee, I've been away from the forums for a while. I think I recall some of this story in another topic. What I'm wondering is if you MIL has some guilt feelings over her daughter's behavior. Perhaps your MIL feels guilty and/or to blame for her daughter's drug addiction. MIL may be enmeshed In order to ease that guilt. What is Robin's history? Most people don't suddenly become drug addicts or alcoholics. There is usually an antecedant, such as being the victim of domestic violence and/or sexual assault. What do you know about Robin's past? Maybe your husband can shed some light. The situation with your MIL and her daughter is out of control, and someone is going to get hurt. Unfortunately, there is not much you can do short of an intervention planned with a drug rehab facility. I wonder what Robin holds over her mother's head to make her mother so unable to close the door on her daughter. Much luck to you and your family. Love and Light, Lynn

Lynn,
Robin is the 4th of 6 children. There is about a seven year 9 year gap (I think) between Robin and her older brother (my husband). Then, after Robin is her younger sister who is about 2 years younger. Robin was born premature. Because of the age difference and because of Robin's prematurity, her parents (guilt?) more or less let her do what she wanted...spoiled her rotten (the older 3 resented the difference in behavior). Odly enough the older 3 are responsible citizens...the younger two who were more or less able to do what they pleased have had a lot of problems with drugs and bumps with the law. Robin began using when she was 14 and also at the age did more or less what she wanted and was allowed to talk to her parents pretty much with much disrespect. Thus, her behavior now. Robin tell her mom that she's the reason she's out of control now because of how her mom raised her...says her mom never told her that drugs were wrong and that's why she used them...(what crap)...Robin did marry when she was young but the guy ended up divorcing her after only a few years marriage. Robin is just not all there...it's like she has no conscience about anything...yet, if she gets called on the table for something (which is rare...she knows how to turn on the water works until mom gets off her back).
My MIL's father was an alcoholic. Her husband was a big time alcoholic (Robin's dad), but he was never physically abusive...just absent as a father because of booze. My MIL did not drink and does not use any drugs of any kind. She's just in denial about her life and has been since she was a child, I think.
I think mom believes Robin...that she's somehow responsible for Robin using drugs...Robin is scitzophrenic...I believe my MIL maya feel she's responsible to her for that in some way...don't know...just guessing.
I guess I could try to talk to a drug counselor about all this but trying to get my MIL's normal kids to become involved is going to be like pulling teeth...my MIL has more or less asked everyone to mind their own business...she gets defensive. I don't think she's going to wake up until she ends up in the hospital from a mental breakdown.

Dee, you are really enmeshed in this situation. I can tell by your posts. Do you talk with them daily?

I have a feeling the other siblings are tired. Seems as though you are more interested in helping than they are. At times when I get wrapped up in other's pain I have to ask myself, "Why do I care so much?" You may want to ask yourself this question. It may help put things in perspective for you.

Who knows why Mom is the way she is with Robin. Since you mentioned her father was an alcoholic, perhaps we can figure it's learned behavior. Sad, but true. Maybe she thinks it's her job to care for Robin and this is how she's doing it. We know it's wrong, but Mom can't grasp that for whatever reason. This is her way of showing love?

One thing I'm learning is that we can't change people, but we can change how wrapped up we become in their behavior...especially if we don't have to live with them.

I'm praying for your peace in this situation. Please don't feel alone. I'm sure there are many other families struggling with this very situation.

Dotsie,
Everyone talks to me about what mom is doing...my two sister in-laws and of course mom lets me know what's going on. I received a call from my sister-in-law from out of town venting about the injustice of it and that I need to keep an eye on mom and/or intervene somehow. I'm an outsider who came into a family that is kindda passive. I'm more of a look you in the face and tell you the truth...not to be hateful...but, I don't sugar coat something when it's going to hurt me or someone I love. (like a drugged out daughter abusing her mom). For most of my life I was a doormat and it took a lot of being stepped on and some therapy to no longer allow that in my life. You're right...I am passionate about this mainly because I know something could be done if mom would take the steps to change it.
I know you're right...I have to stop caring so much. I'm also a 'fixer'. I try to heal people's pain, especially those closest to me. And you're probably right about how mom shows robin love...even if it's the wrong way...Gosh, I'm glad I have my boomer friends to help me see both sides of things. I thought I could make her see the light...I guess I can't make her see the light anymore than she can make Robin stop using drugs.
I'm going to try harder to concentrate more on my life with my husband and the wonderful things we have going together. Mom knows we're here if she needs us.
Thanks for the jolt of reality and the prespective from perhaps mom's side.
Thanks, Dotsie.

Dee, having worked with battered women for many years, I can tell you that it's useless to try and talk sense to someone who doesn't want to hear it. Yes, it can almost be like a drug when they get stuck in the victim mode. It's what some women like. They wear their victimhood like it's a designer outfit. I'm not saying your MIL is doing this but if it was bad for her, she'd probably do something about it. She has a very sick relationship with Robin and you can't do anything about it. It's good to care about someone but not at the risk of your own sanity. Sometimes, you just have to walk away.

I believe that being a victim can become a drug. I wrote about the science of that about a year ago. It involves the release of endorphins which produce a euphoria much like morphine whose name comes from endorphin. Endorphins are produced by our body and are in greater quantity immediately following an extremely stressful or disappointing event.

I believe some battered women get addicted to their own endorphins and unconsciously instigate their own abuse in order to fuel their addiction. Subconscioulsy they know the rush is coming when the abusive husband returns and is repentant. Endorphins are so powerful as to mimic the emotions of love and people often mistake their effects for love.
Under the effects of endorphins or during a craving for their effects, people are as unreasonable as lovers. Even if they recognize the problem, they often go right back to the situation, unconsciously attracted to their drug of choice, endorphins.

There are so many physiological influences over our emotions and many of them make us completely unreasonable. The relationship of the mind and body is more powerful than either of them alone.
smile

Your words, smilinize, are very profound. Food for thought. I knew endorphins existed for physical stresses (when I used to job a lot the feeling afterward was great). I didn't stop to consider your views on them...goodness, what we do to ourselves.
Dianne, you are so right...I've decided to stop trying to get an impossible situation to work...I am not going to change either one of them...I think they feed off each other and I do not want to be sucked into their drama anymore. I'll be there if mom gets into trouble, but it's just not worth my worrying over it anymore than needbe.
Thanks everyone who has offered your words of support and advice and prayers. I love you guys.

Hi all, people can also get used to the stress hormone cortisol, which rises during stressful times. People can come to believe the rise in cortisol is a normal state, and seek ways to keep the cortisol levels high. In the womb, a fetus can experience the rise in cortisol levels, and actually experience stress. Also, Dee, was Robin actually diagnosed schizophrenic? Being schizophrenic could be a reason for her beginning to self-medicate with drugs at age 14. Also, a lack of conscience is often related to schizophrenia. Not all schizophrenics lack conscience, but some do. There are many levels of schizophrenia. A lack of conscience is an indication of a socio path who literally cannot feel remorse or empathy. Even if schizophrenia was not a part of the package, being the child of an alcoholic is a big void to fill with drugs. Your MIL was probably in an unhealthy co-dependent relationship with her husband, and has transferred that type of relationship to her daughter. It's very sad that your MIL lives her mature years in this unhealthy way. Love and Light, Lynn

Lynn...I think yes on all questions...Robin has been diagnosed as a schizophrenic. I'm not sure what leve, however, she is. Evidently, feeling for others comes and goes...depending upon what Robin wants at the time. Her biggest problem that we hear of is how she blames her mom for her behavior now.
Yes, my MIL was in an unhealthy relationship with her husband...he was never without a beer or something to drink. She could not depend upon him...he worked for the RR and would often be falling down drunk at work...back then, workers supported each other during those times (sounds crazy), but they did. Yes, it's a shame my MIL has to live her golden years with this demon on her back...it sounds horrible but all Robin's siblings wish she would pass on...putting their Mother out of harms way. No one would do Robin any harm...they just wish God would take her because all she ever causes is pain. Now, that's a family in crisis if you ask me.
I think mom is just as addicted to Robin as Robin is addicted to the drugs. They feed off each other somehow. Very sad.

Love and light to you, too, Lynn. Thank you so much for your insightful and caring words.

Dee, so what are you and your hubby doing differently? I bet you realize you have more time for yourselves when you back off the family talk.

Maybe your MIL feels needed by Robin. That might be the drug part of it. She probably doesn't feel that the rest of you need her because you're normal and Robin isn't.

Dee, this is such a sad situation. My father was schizophrenic, and used drugs and alcohol to self-medicate. Combined with Thorazine and Stelazine, his behavior was a menace to society. He rarely, if ever, felt empathy or conscience. When he committed suicide, all the family could say was, "It's for the best." If you ever want more perspective, a really good book (besides mine!) is "When Madness Comes Home" by Victoria Secunda. It offers case studies and information on what it is like to be involved with a family member with mental illness. Dianne, as you probably know, the need to be needed is a part of the co-dependent psyche. However, MIL should realize that her need to be needed by her daughter is reaching dangerous life and death levels. MIL is at risk from daughter's violence; Robin is at risk for self-injury. When will this vicious cycle stop? Does it really have to take a tragedy? Where is the mental health care system? I know my father knew he had his rights, and by golly, he used them to keep out of jail and hospitals, no matter who or what he was hurting at home! Oh Dee, I know you must feel like you want to back off from this topic. Unfortunately, the mentally ill make havoc even after death. Love and much Light, Lynn

Dee, I am posting some paragraphs from my book. This is in regards to my father committing suicide. Dee, I wish PEACE for Robin, your MIL, and your family. Hopefully, that Peace does not have to occur via a tragedy. ****Later I learned that my father left no suicide note. Even if he had, who would have recognized his handwriting? He never wrote a letter or signed a card. What he left was unfinished business, a mess of blood and brain matter for his brother Henry to mop up and emotional debris for the family to sort through.
I never wanted to see him again, dead or alive, so I refused to attend the funeral. Besides, how does an adolescent daughter eulogize her schizophrenic father? My brother Eric made the arrangements. It was too much of a traumatic task to ask of a twenty-two-year-old son. To bury his own father, a suicide, seemed cruel and unusual punishment for a son who had been subjected to the vast violence of this madman his entire life.***Evidently, Dee, your MIL and Robin has hit a chord with me. I just wish I could help. I posted this to offer some insight into the emotional context. I bet you feel like your hands are tied, and as long as Robin rules the roost, there is not much you can do. And the health care system today is set up for brevity of treatment. How can I help? Love and Light, Lynn

Dee, one more thing: Yes, being a victim is like a drug. I craved my father's love and approval, although he could never offer affection. But as long as he was alive, I would try, try, try to achieve it, no matter what it took. What it took was my soul and my own will to live. He would give just enough charm, just enough wink, just enough roses to feed my need. So I would open up to him, and whammo bammo he would victimize me, even by sexually abusing me. I haven't responded to your question sooner because I've been dwelling on it off and on for a few days. But I've come to the conclusion that the answer is yes, being a victim is like a drug: the constant craving, the obsession to get it, the love/hate relationship. Love and Light, Lynn

[ August 30, 2005, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: lynn329 ]

Lynn, your post from your book reminded me of how much I enjoyed reading it. You are such a great writer. You always took me there. What's going on with your next book?

Thanks Dotsie. I appreciate your comment. Today I did an interview with a TV station producer. Yeah, the media here in CO Springs is finally taking notice of my work. The station is putting together a video on domestic violence. The producer got of a copy of my book and asked me to be the voice for the victims in this video. She told me that my book had her in tears. She said she had never experienced SA or DV. You came to mind; I remembered when you called in to world talk radio and told listeners that they did not have to be a victim to relate. The TV producer said that the book really opened her eyes and her heart in compassion. That's music to my ears. It means I did my job as a writer. I spend so much time promoting Beyond the Tears and advocating for victims and corresponding with survivors that I have had NO time to work on Beyond the Fears: A Cancer Survivor's Story. You would think that after the writers' conference in Vermont I'd be writing every day. But I have to respond to interest in Beyond the Tears, seize the moment. Thank you for saying I am a great writer. You read a lot of books! I hope I didn't come on too strong for Dee. I noticed we haven't seen her lately. Love and Light, Lynn

Congrats to you Lynn. Hope this take you to yet another plateau of success. You deserve it.

Sugaree

Sugar, thanks so much. LLL

Dear Lynn,

As you know the hurricane has caused all our lives havoc here in the south so i haven't been able to respond to your wonderful messages. To bring you up to date...Robin has traded her car (mom paid $2500 cash for it 3 weeks ago) for $100 worth of crack. My MIL told my husband that she sat in the kitchen with the door closed as Robin reported the car stolen knowing it had not been stolen but sold for drugs. Robin now lives with my MIL because she's hocked everything she has and refuses to live in her hot section 8 apartment. And my MIL won't let her. We talked with my sister-in-law during the hurricane (well, right afterward) and she told us that my MIL gets angry when anyone tries to talk to her now about Robin...she's so deep into denial that none of us can believe it. I've refused to go over there because Robin is there. We did go over and help pick up limbs...they were everywhere...I found Robin and told her we needed her help...otherwise she would have sat on her butt and smoked her cigarettes that her mom pays for. I was so furious by the time I left that I cannot bring myself to go back over there. My husband is between a rock and a hard place because it's his mom and he loves her and she depends on him for certain things...it's easier for me to 'make excuses' not to go over there.
My husband and I try to not talk about Robin anymore and focus on our lives and our marriage. He just gets upset when he thinks about how much of a fool Robin is making of his Mother and that his Mom allows it.
Thank you so much for your offering of words and comfort. You are so precious and I'm so sorry you had to go through what you did. I'm going to buy your book and read it.
Hugs,
Dee

Dearest Dee, yes, I realize the hurricane became a survival mode for you. I think that is horrible, horrible, that Robin sold the car your MIL paid for! What next? I can understand how you and your H cannot talk about Robin anymore. It is such a painful situation. I won't bring it up again unless you have more you want to talk about. Yes, I went through a lot, but I survived, and now I am having the best time of my life. I survived so that I can be of service to others through relating my experiences to theirs. I never, ever want anyone to feel like they are alone. Let me know when you are ready to buy I copy and we can PM the details. Love and Light, Lynn

Dee, Lynn is a past BWS Featured Author. Her book is well worth the read. She's an awesome writer. She takes you along for the journey. Her optimistic attitude offers hope to the reader.

[ September 05, 2005, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: Dotsie ]

Thanks Dotsie. I take a bow! Love and Light, Lynn