Angry people

Do you believe some people are angry because they want to be? Nothing seems to make them happy for very long. Is it a choice or can they be helped? I'm starting to feel that my youngest daughter will never be happy.

I don't know if it is because the choice they make is "better" but I do know people who have been so miserable for such a long time that it is a way of life with them.

They have become so "comfortable" with their misery that living outside of it (i.e., being happy) would be stepping out of their comfort zone and you know how scary that can be to some people.

Also, living in anger and discontent CAN BE a habit. Just like making up your bed in the morning. Once a person falls into that "habit" of being angry all the time, they just subconsciously continue...They have literally trained their minds to think "this is a normal way for me to behave."

At least that is Dr. Jaw Jaw's theory.

It's a good theory, JJ.

I don't think any of us wake up one morning and say "I'm going to be angry today."

I believed it's a learned reflex or attitude. I don't think it's inherited or there is an "anger" gene.

Like JJ said, some people are so comfortable wrapped up in their anger, that to try anything else, would take them outside their comfort zone, probably to the point of having an anxiety attack or panic attack.

Can anger be "unlearned".. I think so. With a lot of congnitive behavior therapy.

My belief is that sometimes its too painful to be sad and in some people they bacome mad (angry)
this observation is backed up in T.A.
I have worked with many young people and once they turn the corner become their own sweet person.

Mountain Ash

May I ask how old is your daughter?

Hannelore

Someone once told me that you can get addicted to anger. When you get angry, your body produces alot more adrenalin and you actually get hooked on the rush. This was not a professional who told me but someone who has been in therapy on and off for over 20 years.

I completely believe that anger is a habit and addictive, in the sense, it is how they know to behave and respond. For some, the very angry, I believe therapy is best. For others, there are many opportunities for self-awareness and self-improvement.

Motivation to change is necessary no matter what. Simply knowing that you want to live a different life may be enough motivation for some. First she needs to determine what she is getting out of being angry all of the time. She can then find other ways to get this need met.

So sorry she is so unhappy.

She's 34. A very beautiful young woman but not on the inside. I used to go out of my way to make her happy and I realized it was just to get rid of my tension. I don't do that anymore.

She upset her brother when she visted him and his wife and new baby. She didn't talk and rarely held the baby and she's a baby lover too.

I've thought of talking to her but she scares me in a way. I don't like to be yelled at and I don't like anger. I've had too much of that in my life. But, I think she uses her anger to make others back off. She once told me she enjoyed being a b****. I think that's awful and sad. I have gone off on her when I can't take it anymore. I can only deal with so much. I'm exhausted.

Dianne, when did the anger begin? What was the initial cause? I wonder if her enjoying being a b**** is b/c the anger is a barrier to her vulnerabilities? I've felt that way.

I thought angry people were very unhappy people and they have a pinched look on there faces . My mother's cousin looks that way a nasty angry look all the time . What makes unhappy people , I am not sure . Life does not go the way it should for them or in my case my mother's cousin I found out of jealous of me. Too Bad ! I say .

Any other ideas , I gave my thoughts on this .

Renee

I'm not sure she wants to change. We used to be really close but I don't talk to her that often anymore. I read about Borderline Personality Disorder and some of the things described fit her but not all of them.

I'm trying to remember when it started and I'm not sure. More than ten years ago. She was molested as a child but I don't know if that is the cause or not. She won't talk about it.

She's going to church again so I hope that helps. Reads her Bible. I think she believes the world owes her something or at least, her family. I don't help her anymore financially. That ship has sunk!

Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm...
Maybe this saying works the other way around as well.
Anger is merely depression with enthusiasm.

Dianne, I think you are at a crossroad yourself. You've chosen; "That ship has sunk"… good for you.
Believe me, I know it's easier said then done.

We have had our share of worries with my youngest son. One thing I noticed with him was when he needed us, especially to get him out of financial binds; he was terribly bitter and angry towards us. Now I understand. Our son tried to preserve his self-esteem and show his independence of us. He's back on his own and financially independent, and our relationship has never been better. So I gather his dependence was his reason to be angry. ( At the time I wasn't so understanding)

I have no idea about Borderline Personally Disorders. I'm just suggesting that your daughter's struggle with self-esteem could be a reason.

Hi, Dianne: I second what has been mentioned by previous posts, that anger is a defense mechanism. It is, however, very subjective to the individual who experiences it. Until your daughter opens up to discuss the triggers to her anger, the only way to deal with her right now would be with patience and love. Not an easy thing to do but, given time, it does turn things around for the better. If your daughter has gone back to Church, then it could be the path upon which she could find the breathing space out of whatever troubles her right now. A good sign and a good choice of sanctuary to be in. In spirit, I wait with hope and pray with you for your daughter. In the meantime, here is a link which greatly helped my sister which I hope offers a view of the situation from your daughter's perspective: www.apa.org/topics/controlanger.html

My sister had to cope with a very angry son for a few years. Like your daughter, my nephew would not talk about what angered him. He was not violent nor destructive but his cynicism was a harder pill to take against my sister and her family's efforts to understand him. As it turned out, my nephew did not like being an army brat. Although he was born into that kind of life, he could not cope with the constant move and the threat to his Dad when called to serve active duty in hotspots. As an army brat, self-imposed discipline bottled up emotions that needed to be discussed with his Mom and Dad. He has calmed down now and it has only been fairly recent that my nephew speaks of the angry years. Ironically, like his father, he is with the armed forces. Now he understands.

I've been pondering this for awhile, because I've been a very angry, bitter person in the past. And while I do agree that it can become a habit to be angry, I think that the roots of anger often lie in a pain (whether real or perceived) so intolerable that one builds this mask of anger in order to cope with the pain and in order to keep moving.

Unfortunately, as a child, I was not allowed to - and therefore didn't learn how to - outwardly express my anger (my anger was firmly rooted in an intolerable sense of constant rejection stemming from very early childhood)...eventually it expressed itself through severe depression and a suicide attempt. Once I learned how to express that anger, it no longer became my enemy but a vital part of who I am, a part I needed to learn how to manage and discipline. It was a long, hard road, learning how to manage, discipline and control my anger and bitterness, but being here helped me to turn myself around and change my focus. I had to stop focusing on all the past hurts and disappointments and focus on all that I have here and now. Forgiveness was a huge part of my progress, not only forgiving the people who caused the pain, but forgiving myself for all sorts of imagined indescretions that scarred my self esteem for my entire life.

Anger is very hard to deal with, and I personally think that there comes a point in time when you may have to walk away from an angry person before you yourself get sucked into their mangled thinking. At the same time, for me, it was an epiphany of love that broke through my walls and helped me to see that there were other options besides staying angry for the rest of my life. Maybe the best thing you/we can do is just pray for your daughter, that God will bring into her life the right people and right resources that will help her change direction and focus. And I'll keep you in prayer too, Dianne, that you just don't get sucked into feeling guilty or bear the brunt of your daughter's behaviour - love her, but don't feel guilty when you have to distance yourself from her anger in order to preserve your own equilibrium and positive focus.

Dianne ,
I do hope that things will get better with your daughter and I agree with the girls on here . I try ot have happy thoughts and that helps .

Renee

Dianne, yes, being molested has everything to do with her anger. And it also depends on who molested her how deep the betrayal went. If she won't talk about it, she can't change. I understand not wanting to help her financially anymore ( I recall you were at a cross roads with her on this several months ago.) I believe that love and patience is all you can offer her now. I had a really stressful job early in my marriage to my current husband. I would come home from work, slam the door, peel off my clothes, plop in my chair, and suck down goblets of wine. He would ask me how my day was and I would go on a tirade about all the evils and ills of my job. After witnessing me behave this way for 2 years, he asked, "Why are you so hostile all the time?" I took his question seriously. Why WAS I so hostile all the time? I could not be happy for more than a nano-second, even when I tried. I was about 34. Anyway, his question led me to another round of counseling. I was not yet ready to talk about being molested as a child, but that round of counseling helped me to get in touch with my anger at a crappy childhood in general. I also had PMDD, and a visit to the endocrinologist helped me to manage the moods of wrath brought on my hormones. (We used meds which helped A LOT!) As Vicki said, cognitive behavior therapy helped. Your daughter may have angst about her own ability to parent. At 34, I knew I did not have the coping skills to parent. In fact, I say that by the time I was emotionally mature enough (to parent) it was biologically too late. Also, depending on who molested her, she may have pent up feelings that are in contradiction to what she says. I mean, she may say she forgives the abuser yet her actions of anger tell otherwise. She needs long term therapy. And, like Eagle says, an epiphany of love. My husband asking me "Why are you so hostile all the time?" was LOVE. He loved me enough to know that the anger was masking the authentic self. He loved me enough to go to counseling with me when I asked. He loved me enough to pay for therapy. He loved me through that round of counseling, and the next, when I was 43 and ready to disclose CSA. CSA is a deal breaker for a child, a life thief, a soul shattering experience. That's why she's angry all the time. Also, trauma like CSA re-patterns the brain. One of my remaining problems is a diminished capacity to experience joy. The studies show that molestation directly corresponds to brain cells that rule emotions. Your daughter's wires got tangled (mangled) during trauma, and they need to be undone! I wish I could take her hostile hand and lead her to a therapist and a more loving life.

Lynnie, could you elaborate more on CSA? Being molested as a child is horrible, it happened to me and I've carried a lot of anger. The thing that angers me the most is that my parents DID NOT protect us girls from the molesters, who are two uncles and a babysitter. Thus, people we thought to be trusted, yet we said nothing until adults and were never believed. Thus, I wonder if not believed, how could one trust authority figures? For instance, doctors, police, clergy, or our family? At least, this has been my experience. I never wanted children b/c of the abuse and also having been married to an abuser. Therefore, the abuse was never acknowledged, except by myself. Maybe that's why I've been so angry, wanting the abuser and those who were to protect us accept the blame, rather than the victim? Dianne, I wonder if this might be the case with your daughter, too? I apologize in advance if I'm wrong.

Anne, I can't speak for Dianne, so let's take a hypothetical situation. Let's take a 34 year old woman and work backwards in years. At the age of 24, she may have remembered the abuse, and even spoke about it. However, if the abuse was not talked about in long term therapy, then speaking about it to a parent or friend is a band aid, and not a cure. (there is no cure, but the abused can manage symptoms such as anger.) From 24 to 34, the barely acknowledged and insufficiently dealt with abuse festers psychologically and spiritually and even physically (via eating disorders, alcohol & drug abuse, suicide attempts.) Then, the anger becomes the issue, and not the abuse, because the abuse itself has been stifled, stuffed, & snuffed. I try to go to churches to do presentations on CSA. Most churches are not equipped to deal with this topic. Any good minister will refer the victim to therapy with a counselor who is specifically trained for CSA. Mustang, I will surely elaborate on CSA. I am so sorry to hear that you were molested. Being a victim colors everything in your life. Unfortunately, this is a victim-blaming society. Accountablity and responsibility should be on the abuser, and the covert accomplises, which includes people who did nothing to stop it. Many people will say they did not know. Maybe they didn't know, but how can children tell if 1) they do not have the vocabulary for telling 2) they have been threatened not to tell 3) they think they won't be believed. In all 3 of the above, the burden is on the victim! The abuser gets away with it. You are one step ahead in that you have acknowledged the devastation of abuse, whether or not the abuser takes responsiblity. I'd like to validate that anger is your right, although I am so sorry that you had to endure the molestation that caused anger. Oh, when I was 14, I declared that I would never have children. I did not know it then, but my subconscious was saying that I did not want to bring another child into a world where fathers and brothers (and uncles and babysitters) sexually abuse their children. Mustang, what else would you like me to elaborate on?

This is a good topic for me at this time as my whole biological family seems to be angry all the time and they ALL profess to be CHRISTIANS in the biblical sense.
Let me tell you ladies, I am so angry at the moment and not really sure where to put it, so to speak.
My oldest sister is here in Missouri with my husbands sister (we all grew up together and I am the youngest) Well, my sister is the one that just had a tumor removed from her brain the end of September, I have been on the phone with her for hours at a time comforting her through a prescribed medication recovery.
She got addicted to prescribed drugs and was a Pysch tech nurse for over 15 years. Well she and my sister in law drove out here from California to stay with MY MOTHER IN LAW that lives NEXT DOOR to me and she has called my mom (lives across the street from me) to let her know that she was coming for a week and was not coming to see any of her family members.. LOL
ME, my sons, my mom and my other sister live here in Missouri and she has not came to see me yet and told my daughter in law that I owe her an APOLOGY!. (for what?) being supportive? .. lol
I am so mad as my mom is VERY hurt and I am used to this type of behavior from ALL of my family, but I AM SO ANGRY THAT SHE IS HURTING MY MOM this way. For NO reason. my mom has done nothing to her and they sit next door and start trouble and tell lies. It is so evil to do this to your family. She didn't even have to call anyone if she didn't want to see us. She made a point of letting us all know that she would be staying next door and would not be seeing any of us. She went to my moms today, which I was hoping to apologize to her and NOPE she tried to start problems.
I did ask my mom to let me know if she gets nasty with her as I will not tolerate her acting like that to my mom.
My mom is going to be 78 years old and needs some respect.
My sister is 53 years old for goodness sake!
I have tried to read scripture to get me out of this but do not understand this evil behavior.
You talk about angry? They never communicate to each other about what they are mad at each other for and blame each other for things that happened in the past.

I don't know what I am supposed to do.
I have been really sick for two weeks now and just dont get it.

I am so glad that me and my sons are not that way.
Oh and by the way.
My Grandson is coming to see me the 10th thru the 16th for Thanksgiving as my son can't get leave this year for the real one. It should be fun! I can't wait to sqeexe that little boy! he is 5 months old! and cute as all get out.

Nancy

Lynnie, thank you! For myself, my anger has clouded decisions. For instance, not knowing who to trust, and often times choosing the wrong situation or person, and mostly not trusting myself or instinct. Also, I thought moving or changing my climate would help, yet it only follows. Yes, this is a victim-blaming society where the victim suffers b/c the individual(s) at fault will not acknowledge their blame. Thank you for explaining, I hope this helps Dianne's daughter, too.

Oh, I almost forgot. I own my anger, accept it, and am actively working on constructive measures to direct the anger. I can no longer allow it to affect my decisions, health, work, nor my joy and those I love.

Mustang, the issue of trust and instincts is HUGE for CSA survivors. We thought we should trust our family, yet they betrayed us in the worst way. We were born with instinct and insight, yet it gets clouded for the above reason re: betrayal. So our instincts become confused or clouded. Books such as The Artist's Way, Simple Abundance, etc. help us to learn about trusting our instincts. I have a recommended reading list on my web site. Reading for self help is "bibliotherapy" which comes in handy when we can't afford or simply don't want psychotherapy. I can't tell you the number of times I did not trust my own instincts and got into real trouble.

Mustang, not that I want to use the forum for sales or solicitation, but may I recommend my book to you? I would do this privately but I see your email is not in your profile. Or, you can cruise through the Featured Author section here and look for April 2005. I think you'd be surprised and comforted to know that what you experience, you are not alone.

Bathbuddy, some families are so mentally skewed that it is hard to make sense of a situtaiton that makes no sense!

I agree that many people get stuck in the anger mode, but what if it's a chemical imbalance? What is their rage is caused by something that happened in childhood and they are blocking it? How would you convince someone to have it checked out?

I for one have difficulty with anger and angry people. It makes me feel physically ill and lasts for days. SOOO years ago I decided never to allow it to happen again. I am not saying I haven't had good reason to be thoroughly pi--ed off because thats not true, but I chose to just walk away. Now when and if someone gives me reason to feel true anger, I drop them. I look at their tantrum for what it is, usually stupid and self serving, so I ignore it, except that the person is forever more dead to me...I merely move on to happier, kinder people and feel just fine...Works for me! I have to clarify something. It takes a WHOLE LOT to get me even a little disturbed, let alone angry enough at anyone to have to walk away. I pick my friends carefully and hate to find out I was wrong.

I'm not ignoring this thread. Just returned from NYC.

Mustang, you should read Lynnie's book. It will help you a lot and is very good.

It's difficult to walk away from your daughter because you don't want to watch her continue to lead her life angry. You want the best for your children. Her molester was a family member and she doesn't want to hate him. She still has a relationship with him and his family. She wants to forgive and forget. But, the pain is still there for her and she has blocked a lot of it out. I confronted the abuser and it was a very ugly confrontation at that. She doesn't believe in dragging the past behind. But, it is still being drug behind her whether she believes it or not. She was a happy go lucky little girl. I believe the abuse began when she was six or seven. I have great difficulty even thinking about it because it makes me sick to my stomach.

I spoke with her therapist after a suicide attempt. She said she didn't want to die but just didn't want to wake up. She was having anxiety attacks at that time too. Her counselor said that my daughter refused to delve into the abuse. She did help her with her poor body image tho.

Sometimes, I just want to scream and cry at the same time.

Oh Dianne, I can feel for you wanting to scream and cry at the same time. You're right in saying that even though she SAYS she wants to forgive and forget, what was done to her is still preying on her psyche. Some experts call child sexual abuse '"SOUL MURDER." Intellectually and psychologically she is saying forgive and forget. But she needs to be healed on a soul level or the anger will continue. She did the hardest part: she disclosed. However, she does not want to delve into it in sessions. Maybe she will get sick and tired of being angry and sad. The anger is hurting her, as if the abuse is still hurting her. She's abusing herself and others with anger. I didn't tell until I was 43 although I'd been in counseling many times. Sexual abuse colors everything black. I hope she will someday see the love and light.

Lynnie, how angry were you and how did you act out? Did you pretend to be happy or did you outwardly show it?

She called me yesterday and she has a roommate who is a close friend of mine. He's one of the nicest men I've ever known. I said something about him being such a good guy and she told me he was no nicer than the rest of us. I don't get it. It's wrong to talk about others being nice? She can find the bad in anyone, not the good, only the bad. She's throwing away a great life by feeling this way.

I lived in fear for about five years worrying about her trying to kill herself. I broke down during a session with my therapist about this. It think this is why I tried so hard to keep the peace with her. He convinced me that suicide would be her choice and if she chose it, it's because it's what she wanted. I had no control over it.

My uncle committed suicide years ago and the family still hasn't gotten over it. It altered all of our lives.

How do you decide that life is no longer worth living? How do you decide that death would be better? I'm at a loss here and talking with all of you is really helping me and I deeply appreciate your thoughts.

If you know anyone thinking of suicide take them to the neasrest hospital childrens ward and let them take a good long look, I am dead serious here. Let them seee the ones dying without a CHOICE. Tell them to step into the adult cancer ward and ask each and every terminal patient what they would give for one more month, one day or even one more hour of precious life? Not all, but most of these suicidal people need a reality check. I'm truly sorry but they piss me off feeling sorry for themselves. I think we have all felt or feel true despair in our lives but our belief in God was stronger than our doubt in ourselves. I pray these suicidal people get a grip and realize that when things seem to have hit rock bottom, theres only one way left to go and thats...UP!!!

Dianne, I was very angry, and I had something to be angry about, as does your daughter. I had a contradictory personality: one minute I would be up and off the wall, the next I would be down and in the dumps. As a teen, I alternated between acts of rebellion like smoking pot with friends or isolated withdrawal alone in my room. Some people would perceive me as being nice and sweet, and take advantage of that. At the time, my vulnerabilities were so obvious it was easy to be taken advantage of. But I thought I was wearing a hard shell because I had a wall around my heart. Other people would not know how to speak to me because no one could predict how I would react. Some people walked on egg shells around me. Only intense counseling and constant introspection and recommended reading and a spiritual transformation changed my personality. I am almost back to the sweet characteristics I had BEFORE the abuse. I say almost because I still have trouble trusting others, and trusting enough to believe in my own self. I am very insecure. But, instead of acting out those insecurities in passive-aggressive ways, I am better able to say that I don't understand something, or that I feel under confident. Instead of being taken advantage of, people are better able to read the genuine me, and be supportive. I say this because your daughter is not showing her genuine needs; she is covering up her vulnerabilities with anger. "No nicer than the rest of us." Hmmm, I wonder why you can't compliment someone in your lives without a harsh feedback from her. I remember when my mother was complimenting Kathie Lee Gifford to me. My mom just gushed all over KL because, Mom thought, KL "had such strong values and loved her Daddy." I took that very personally because my non-loving daddy had abused me and so my values were askew (at the time.) Everything was askew. So if someone complimented someone else, I thought it was really a slam against me. So I wonder if YD is thinking that by you complimenting someone else you are really undermining her. YOU don't see it that way, but one with a history of being sexually abused by someone she trusted has everything "mangled" in her head (Eagle's good word for it.) As for suicide, those who have been sexually assaulted are 13 times more likely to attempt suicide than those who have not been assaulted. That's huge. It might as well be 100 times. The best predictor of suicide is previous attempts. It's not hard for one to decide when enough is enough. It's not always true that God doesn't give us more than we can handle. Some things like sexual abuse are just too much to handle. It's not hard to decide that death would be better than the emotional pain. Also, with SA there is a lot of unresolved grief: losing trust, losing childhood, etc. So she is languishing in a long grieving process. YD needs to read/talk about this subject, not hide from it. Like I said, she says she forgives and forgets, but her actions speak louder. Dianne, keep talking about this here or wherever you feel support. It's not over yet. Do you feel like she is abusing you with her anger? Does she say she does not hold anything against you (for not knowing) yet she treats you with anger? Suicidal people hit rock bottom and don't know how to get up. I guess I was lucky because a counselor intervened (well, God intervened and sent an angel counselor to me) and she showed me how to get up after suicide. I needed her as a life line. Oh, Dianne, you can't be a life line for her. She needs an objective helper. Phew. That's all for now. Love and Light, Lynn

Well said, Lynnie. Your wisdom is so crucial in this kind of discussion. Suicide thinking is VERY MUCH "mangled" thinking. Suicidal people don't chose to want to want to die...the despair, depression, agony and grief just suck a person down into that quicksand of mangled thinking and there is often no escape without outside intervention. It took an epiphany of love for me to crawl out of that hellhole. Even then, though, the mangled thinking haunts like the mythical sirens, relentless and convincing, voices which can only be silenced by equally relentless love and willpower, which most despairing depressed people simply cannot muster - without outside help.

Oh that it would be that simple to just will oneself to want to live. The thing to remember is that depression (including the manifestations of suicidal thinking) is a bona fide illness. The treatments are not as straight-forward or target-oriented as cancer treatments, or treatments for any other bona fide illness. There's a lot of misdiagnosis, a lot of stigma, a lot of impatience and a lot of "trial and error" treatment attempts standing in the way of a lot of depressed people getting the help they desperately need.

As bystanders to loved ones going through depression (and especially those stuck in suicidal thinking), the best thing we can do is help them to get the help they need and then continue to pour that love into their lives...and do pray for divine intervention. Even if it seems they don't want, hear, receive or see it, love and light are still the best guides out of that darkness, especially while they walk that long and frustrating road trying to find the right combo of therapy and meds they so desperately need.

Believe me, most suidical people WANT to want to live, they just can't get there by themselves.

Thanks ladies. This is really, truly helping me.

She does seem angry with me but also with both of her brothers too. Maybe it's a male thing. Before we put her into rehab, my nights were spent being verbally abused by her until I tore into her one night. The next morning she apologized but I told her it had happened for the last time. I had the honor of hearing every single thing I had done wrong as a mother. I finally pointed out what she had done wrong as a daughter like almost causing me to lose my business. That's a long story in itself.

When she was drinking, she would get up in the middle of the night and take Tylenol PM without knowing it. It wasn't until the next morning when she'd vomit and see the remains of the little blue pills in the toilet that she knew she had taken them. She felt bad about it because if she had died, I would always think she had killed herself when she hadn't meant to. So, she does think of me sometimes.

I've told her, "If you are angry with me over something, spill it now and let's get it out in the open!" but she says she isn't. I must just be her beating post or I should say, I used to be.

I don't enjoy being around my own daughter because of the moods. If she wasn't my child, I wouldn't even have anything to do with her. That sounds so awful but it's true.

Eagle, thanks for the enlightenment you articulated so well. Dianne, I don't have children but I think a parent can love child without necessarily liking them.

Dianne, Dr. Keith Ablow had a show on re: Anger as an illness. If you want to know more about this, google for his show. He said anger is treatable, but the person has to be willing to be treated. I would tell you more but I did not see the show.

Dianne, I hope U R still reading this thread. I was thinking today about this topic while I was stuck in traffic, doing a 45 minute detour in a 3 mile radius. What a mess! Colorado Springs is like Boston with "the big dig" in freeway reconstruction. The best city of its size in America is also the most congested city in America (Co springs.) Anyway, my thought was wondering how one can love someone else through their anger. Anger is fear, and can one love another through their fears. "It saddens me beyond my tears that love is lost within the fears." Your daughter is losing her ability to love because she is in fear, and the fear is manifested at anger. That anger is abusive to her own self and others. My mother did not love me through my anger. Her love was conditional on her behavior. I should say that she loved me, but her interaction with me was contigent upon whether or not I would exhibit the actions of the model child she wanted, but couldn't have. To this day, I feel like she loves me not because of what I achieved, but because of what I achieved to make her look and feel good. I wished she had loved me through the anger. I understand that every interaction between parents and children is different, and I never had any. But I can be objective enough to have empathy for both you and her. I wish and hope your daughter will see how she is responsible for changing her attitude from anger to love.

She called me today and was up and happy. I just never know what to expect. She's always had a lot of female problems and her periods are awful and so is her PMS. She will sometimes have three periods a month. Her doctor has been working with her on this. She gets really moody and nasty during PMS.

This was the same daughter I wrote about whose boyfriend held her hostage in the house all night. She's had more than her share of bad things happen.

My mother competed with me. It was so strange.

Dianne, might your daughter have PMS syndrome? Combining physical condition and anger (emotion) together is very much an impact on a person.

I don't know, Mustang. Never heard of it. I should look it up online. The dr. stopped her periods for a while but she said she couldn't afford the meds or dr. anymore and I don't feel right about stepping in, once again, to pay for it.

Dianne
Is there someway to reinforce her up days and help her see how much more beneficial they are for her? It's tough, having so many issues with PMS and then add in all the anger she has towards her past traumas. Could it perhaps be a sort of post traumatic syndrome?

We have nice conversations on her up days and when she turns negative, I just get quiet. I don't respond to her. That's the only way I know how to handle it since she'll go off on me and a huge fight will take place. I don't think it's PTSD. It doesn't have the markings.

I don't know, Anne. I always had the same problems when I was younger. PMS included! It was awful and I ended up getting a hysterectomy.

Dianne, is it possible to have someone with you when your daughter comes by; a friend or relative? Maybe then your daughter will act differently; hopefully hold her anger back, and at the same time you get some moral support.

I know there are issues here that I don't really understand. But no matter, I think no person has the right to make another person's life miserable just because she or he is miserable. You can sympathize with the person, and feel with them, but as soon as that person, no matter who it is, lashes out at you and treats you cruelly, then the first instinct should be to protect yourself and close the door on that trouble maker. I think you're doing that. Bravo.

The only person would be my husband. The last time I saw her was in AZ and I had my granddaughter (18-years old) my DIL and her sister. She was still cranky. She was bent because her sister wouldn't drop every thing and drive her up North. Well, her son was having surgery so she couldn't. Still, she was never able to see why her sister had to put her son first. It's like the world owes her.

I should add that she's had problems at every single place she's worked. Always strife with other employees for one reason or another. Maybe she felt she could act this way and just quit when things got rough because I'd be there to help out financially. I refuse to do that anymore so she's had no choice but to stay where she's working now. Doesn't stop her from complaining about it though.

Dianne, I am wondering about the pms and excessive periods also. My sister recently had a hysterectomy and before that she was feeling depressed and down for a long time. She also gained weight. She tried anti-depressants but they didn't help. A couple of weeks before her surgery, the was given a blood transfusion because she had lost a so much in her 3 week long periods. The next day she was herself again, barking orders so much her husband joked that he was thinking about taking her back. She actually likes her co-workers now.

We might be onto something here. I'm going to ask her if she's still going to the doctor, etc. It would be so nice to have a happy daughter.

Thank you, Anne.

I have learned in my long life that it is as more upsetting to me than to the person I am angry with, so I chose not to be angry. Instead I just walk away from people that are toxic. I will try to help first, make nice but if they aren't having any of that, I simply move on, find people that are rational and act like adults, not spoiled tantrum throwing children. That has worked well for me and keeps my disposition a pleasant one...

Very wise, Chatty. The angrier another one gets, the quieter I become. I've learned that through age. Maybe that saying is true; the older you get, the wiser.

Thought about this post last night or rather in the A.M. hours and after reflecting on what I wrote, not wanting to sound glib, I realized it might be harder when its our own children we are talking about. I made the decision twelve years ago to not walk away, but to send my son away from me until he chose to stop his drugging. I put my anger/dissappointment on the back burner and calmly asked him to leave my home....With my son my anger was replaced with sorrow.

Sometimes our decisions are so hard to make.

I could never walk away from my children. Like Chatty, I've sent them away for a time until they cleaned up their act but was still available to talk if they needed to.

Dianne, how is your daughter? Will you be seeing fmaily during the holidays?

I, too, was thinking about you and your daughter today. I guess the upcoming holidays always make me think about family relationships and how important and fragile they are. I hope for the best for you and your daughter.

Thanks, Anno. I haven't spoken with her so don't know. We don't talk on the phone that often. She arrives from Nashville on Thanksgiving Day and leaves on Saturday. We'll see.

I watched the DVD The Secret and I think I'm going to order one for her. Maybe it will help.

Well, she flew out for the holiday and was as sweet as could be. Polite, no moodiness and helped out. She told me the doctor put her on that nuvo ring for three months and it stopped the period problems. She seems happier at her job too. Go figure. Let us pray this continues.

Amen to that Dianne.

Grrrrreat! I am so happy for both of you.

Isn't that typical adult kids! They can rile you up, get you upset and on edge. Then they forget about it, go along their merry way, and you get heart rhythm problems. At least that's the way with me.