What 2 do...?

Dog owners, help. Xena has been to dog training classes. She has an inground fence. We exercise her; feed her, well; love on her; get her regular vet checkups; and brush her teeth. But nothing seems to be enough. When we got her from a shelter, she was in the company of 40 other dogs, all sizes. She acted mild and friendly and sociable. We walk her in the park daily, weather permitting. I play ball with her, once, twice, three times a day, sometimes. She's getting more and more aggressive toward other dogs. She fights and growls and attacks other dogs, no matter the size. Anybody have any suggestions. WB's mom's dog was here a couple weeks over the holidays. Xena let her cousin eat and drink from her own dishes but occasionally, seemingly for no reason, fought with that dog.

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. What little I know is (1) you have a big problem, and (2) it's going to take special training to get your dog through this. Basically she's going to need a program of careful distraction and rewards until she learns to deal with other dogs.

This fear-aggression is not uncommon, so there's literature on it. You might also want to contact a trainer specifically for this purpose. All the training you have already done with her will help a good deal because you need that basic control first. Good luck of course.

Ellemm,
Thank you. I just contacted the behavior specialist again,
the one we had before. We'll have to get more extensive training. This is such a beautiful animal, I hate to give up on her. But the method WB is using, is not working. We've watched Caesar Millan and read his book, but still it's to no avail. We're back at square one and need immediate relief. I'm afraid to take her around other dogs and we go on vacation the 1st of March. I cannot have an aggressive, biting dog. Please, everyone, help me pray that this problem gets solved for the sake of this gorgeous creature.

Dogs she used to play and run with in the Park, she now growls at and fights with.

By the bye, I have been reading up on dominance aggression
and so has WB. We'll simply have to get her more Doggie classes in behavior. The school we've taken her to, advertises that the professor can train even older dogs to be good dogs. We'll see!

Just finished talking with the expert! He says there's no
way to rehabilitate Xena. Simply keep her away from other dogs. So, again, I don't know what to do.

Maybe our resident expert, Chatty, has the answer.

My daughter had a dog that started being aggressive. My grandson had to have stitiches on his thumb from trying to get her off another dog. Sadly, it grew worse and she had to have the dog put down. It was a lawsuit waiting to happen.

That's what I'm worried about, Dianne. I'm praying to find
a behavior expert around here somewhere who can help. Not giving
up just yet.

Just wondering how often your dog has to be around other dogs. Is it possible to keep her on a leash? Will she run through the invisible fence?

Dotsie,
She only has to be around other dogs when WB's mom is staying here. When we walk in the park, we can keep her on a leash. But
it would be nice to able to use public dog parks when vacationing. I located another behavior specialist; will see if she can modify Xena's actions. The "expert" we used in the past told me today, "keep her away from other dogs." Dotsie, Xena stays within the confines of our property line, even without the invisible fence empowerment.

You have my email in answer to the one you sent me regarding this question jabber and hope it helps. It is one way to protect you from any lawsuits and protect the other dogs Zena is around and her as well. I would also keep her exposure to other dogs as limited as possible.

Have you had a brain scan done? My black German Shepard I got from a vet returning from the Korean War back in the day, turned aggressive after several years for no apparent reason. They finally did a scan and found a tumor that would cause her pain and she would attack for what seemed like no reason. It was inoperable and she had to be put down and out of her misery...

Today they probably could have saved her but I will never know.

Well 1st we'll try getting help for her unpredictable aggression. I think it's something we've done wrong. I'm anxious to get results from a behavior evaluation session. Please add Xena to your prayer list. She's smart 'n beautiful and it'd be a real shame if she has to be put down. Our last dog had such a mild temperament, as does WB and me, I think we're lacking in the know-how to deal correctly with this situation. Thanks, everyone, for your input and concern!

Jabber, we have to put a muzzle on Max (greyound) when we take him for a walk...just in case. He's attracted to small, fast moving dogs. Maybe you could muzzle Xena? Just a thought. Max can drink water and even eat food with his on, if need be.

Ah Dianne, great minds really do think alike, LOL!!! That exactly what I suggested she do, and to keep her away from other dogs. It sounds like she has plenty of room to run on her own property. I also suggested a body/brain scan in case she has a tumor which causes her intermitent pain changing his mood. I lost a wonderful dog that way, she had a brain tumor which would cause her to get vicious when she was in pain. She had to be put down but that was in the 60's and now they have surgeries that work wonders for our pets.

Dianne, like I told Chatty, we do use a muzzle. Though, even
with that device in place, she still acts aggressive. We do
try to keep her away from other dogs. Have driven most of the
other people out of the park when we walk. We have a radio
active collar, which we use when she's off leash and we're walking that 1 1/2 mile stretch through the park. That's so if Xena sees deer running in front of her, we can get her back before she gets too far away. If another dog comes around, we
put her back on the leash. She had two dogs, she used to play
with, without incident. But a park worker drove passed in his
truck, we had to collar her and stop the play. Ever since then, she's been aggressive with those two dogs. I don't know if she blames her friends for having to stop the play or what? But instead of just running and playing, she's aggressive now. WB punished her for attacking, and IMO she blames the punishment on those dogs. Who knows. But that's the long and short of it. The private behavior evaluation specialist still hasn't answered our email, as yet. I'll let you know what she advises, if we can contact her for an appointment! Thanks everyone!

A while back, Xena attacked a raccoon over in the county park. WB rescued the creature. It was alive and unharmed when we left it. But ever since then, Xena has been in an aggressive mode. We have a two hour appointment with a behavior specialist for Xena, next Friday. I'll let you know what she advises us, in case any of you have similar dog problems. I pray this lady can help us; I'd rather be shot, than put this dog down!

Please understand, everyone, we had Xena checked by a vet
immediately after the raccoon incident! She got a good bill of
health. But she seems more "prey oriented" since then, more
aggressive and in more of a stalking mode. Shadow hunted and killed a squirrel and a woodchuck over in the park, before I could stop her, or realize what she was up to. And Shadow was mildest mannered dog I'd ever known. That must be part of the lab makeup, to be "prey" minded. That's a question I'll ask and a mode I'll attempt to curb.

Jabber, there is NO need to put an aggressive dog down unless she becomes aggressive with poeople, and even you and your family, then the prospects of harm are too dangerous. Simply curtailing her interaction with other dogs and wearing a muzzle when she may be near then should be sufficient. She could also change back to her old sweet self as quickly as she turned aggressive. I've seen that happen more than once.

That's what I'm hoping for: she turns back to being gentle.
She's attacked a couple of dogs and knocked a couple owners
over in the process. That's where the problem is unnerving.
It would be the last resort, Chatty, you can bet your boots on that. It would be the last resort! I'm for helping and healing, not destroying!

Jabber I don't mean you here in any means, and my next comments may seem weird to some but are true.

When we bring a pet into our home it's the same as having another child. If a child misbehaves or is suddenly out of control, we don't take them and have them put down...(maybe not a bad idea in some cases...LOL)

Why is it so easy for people to kill a pet because it acts up or doesn't potty train as fast as they think it should or it isn't cute a cuddly anymore?

In todays world nothing is indespensible, don't like a spouse, dump them, pet acts up, kill it, don't want this pregnancy, end it with abortion...

We seem to have become a nation of lazy, heartless monsters.

Jabber, if your dog has such hunting instincts, maybe a hunter would be interested in buying her? Those kinds of dogs are asked for around here. I do strongly suggest visitng the owner and checking to see how the dogs are cared for. But I'm sure you would do that anyway.
A dog should not be a stress factor. I believe JJ gave her last dog away too. Sometimes it is the best thing you can do for yourself and the animal.

Chatty and Ed3,
WB and I will work with and attempt to curb Xena's aggression.
She scared me when she attacked several dogs, one after another and knocked a gentlemen stranger off his feet to get at his dog and mall her. Thank God she didn't and doesn't actually hurt any animals. We've had this lab to training classes, and now have an appointment with another dog behavior specialist. She has bounded from us to attack other dogs, on occasion; keeping tighter control. Corrective measures are our focus. We've invested time and money in Xena. If she harmed any person or pets, serious measures would have to be taken. We may even be forced by authorities to do something we don't want to do. That's why I mentioned this here and why I was looking for ideas. Read read Caesar's books; watched his shows; had a professional trainer come here and walk in the park with us. I just DON'T want to be sued. Xena was traumatized by her 1st family dropping her off at a rescue center. Thanks 4 the help!

Hope I didn't sound heartless or lazy and I know you started out
by saying you didn't mean me. But I've been thinking about your
post, Chats, and I supposed I sounded heartless to some of you.
I really am sensative and caring; that's why I was trying to
find a solution to this problem, other than the last resort.
In seaching for answers, it becomes apparent that we've tried
everything every one else here would. So, methinks we're on the
right track. Will let ya'll know how Friday goes.

You didn't sound lazy or heartless. Your dog may just be what is considered a special needs dog. Max was and we are his last chance before being sent off to some kennel to live out his life, fenced away from other dogs.

We take Max to parks where no other dogs are and let him run in a fenced area. We have to let him know it's not okay to even look at small dogs because he really wants to chase them down and kill them, like a rabbit on the track. I have to keep him close to my body with a very short leash. All of these traits were bred into him so there will never be any of it truly going away but we just try to prevent and be aware.

I really hope the experts can give you an answer.

Thank you queen of shoes; I totally understand an obsession with
shoes.

Jabber, when I said I didn't mean you I meant it. If I had, I would have said so.

Its just that in my work of volunteering at the shelters I see all kinds of people, some heartless and some just lazy, not wanting to spend one thin dime to get a sick pet healthy. Or when seeing some poor animal left behind when it's owners moved, or one thrown from a car by its owners in the scorching hot desert, left to die. That to me is lazy and heartless. Especially when shelters take in pets no questions asked.

I could go on but its bad enough I have to see the end result of abused animals. I don't want to describe them here, it's too depressing and horrific...

I know you love Zena like a child, and are now, and will continue to do whatever is necessary for the well being of all concerned.
There is a show on TV where they send famed animal psycholigist Victoria Stilwell into your home (on TV) and she works to retrain your pet to behave properly. She is my hero and as good as the dog whisperer. The show is on The Animal Channel. Try googling her and maybe she can be of assistance to you. Hey, its worth a try and they pay you to allow her into your home while training your dog...

Xena attended a two hour behavior modification class yesterday.
I'm so glad we decided to try another approach; this trainer
uses a less harsh method of training animals. The 1st trainer, a man, punished bad behavior; this lady rewards good behavior.
We're going to attempt to rehabilitate our lab. This trainer does not believe Xena has unpredictable aggression. She thinks
we've just been using the wrong method and incorrect materials.
There are two types of muzzles; according to her, we were using the wrong one. We were using the wrong collars and each uncomfortable correction, Xena blamed on the other dogs. She did good in class but this morning in the park, she didn't do so good. If need be, we'll have the new trainer drive out here and
walk Xena in the park to show us what we're doing wrong. I instinctively felt the problem was us and not the dog. Thank God we pursued new avenues of help. This trainer does not agree
with Millan or the puppy school we lst used. Since Xena was
getting worse, instead of better, I tend to trust this type training. I'll let you know what happens.

The only way I would have put this gorgeous animal down, was if
she grew unsafe around people and their pets. But she hasn't
harmed one living thing yet; well, the raccoon was a little worse
for wear, but other than that, she's just boxed around a bit.

So there's hope for a new beginning and a milder mannered dog!

Thanks for caring. luv ya, jabber

Chatty,
I know you didn't mean me! Don't give it a second thought! I've
got lots of stuff coming at me from different angles. Pay me no mind, just laugh it off!

I did already but wanted you to know staight from me I wasn't critizing you. Use of the proper muzzle, collar and lead is crucial for all our dogs.

Ido want to strongly critize your first so called dog trainer. No trainer worth his/her salt would ever use hurtful dicipline. You REWARD the good only, NEVER punish the less than good...
That only tends to add fear to the problems at hand. Makes me so mad when someone suppose to be a trained professional resorts to amateurish, wrong, and even dangerous methods.

Chatty,
The thing is our 1st "so-called expert" thinks he's the greatest
trainer in the world. He claims Caesar Millan refers customers
to him. But ever notice how Caesar uses harshness, sometimes. Pinch collars and muzzles, not the basket type, are cruel tools. Unexperienced parents believe the info we're paying "experts" to share. Regardless, I like gentle training much better. It's easier on my nerves and Xena is happier; that's the important
thing!

When I say unexperienced, it may sound cofusing. True, I've had animals all my life. But Shadow lived to be over age 15 and was extremely mild mannered. She never did a thing wrong. We rescued her when she was 1 1/2 years old. She was so glad to get a home, she'd run, as fast as her legs would carry her, doing figure-eights on the lawn. And she never needed correcting.

I once had a rescue here that was an abused Pit Bull named Prince. He was a handful and a friend of mine said, I have this friend who is an expert with dog bahavior problems. I'll have her call you. She did and I invited her over. She seemed okay at first then with Prince on his lead she gave some command, forget what, he didn't mind her so she slapped him hard on his nose, with his lead. Never knew I could move that fast! I grabbed the lead and told her to get the he// out of my home or I was going to show her how it felt to be slapped with a leather lead. She slinked away and I never saw her again.

It had taken me over a month of kindness to show this shivering petrified of people dog he wasn't going to be hurt and abused ever again and then she slaps him in the face. Grrrr!!!

By the way that was nine years ago and my granddaughter adopted Prince after about six more months with me and she has had him ever since, he adores Emily the new baby and has always been an perfect addition to her home, loving, loyal and what a watchdog, whew!

I know what you mean. That mean stuff really burns my butt. Xena is gradually getting better. I should've known the 1st time that 1st trainer jerked Xena, right after he put a pinch collar on her, that he was an idot. But several of my neighbors used this dude and their dogs seemed fine. I'd like to put a pinch collar around that guy's neck and yank as hard as I could. Oh well, thank God we saw the light. The method of "reward what she does right" is my kind-o training process. The three of us have learned the hard way. But at least we've learned! Some folks never get it!

To everyone out there with puppies you want to train, find a
kind, gentle method of training your dogs. Reward for what they
do right is the way to go. Punishment for bad behavior is old
school and very outdated. It only confuses pup and makes bad
behavior worse! We learned the hard way!

Dogs, and yes even puppies are much smarter than we think they are, and getting a treat for good behavior is learned VERY quickly...

Thing is, we've done the wrong method so long, Xena is confused; doing the proper method and reprogramming her responses is gonna take a lot of time and much, much effort. Problem: WB is short on patience, like most of the male gender.

NO one said MEN had to be smart or patient, neither is one of the requirements...

True!