Breaking up is hard to do...

Hi ladies. I need a little advice and a big kick in the pants to get something done.

Awhile back I met a nice guy and fell head over heels for him. All is well, except he’s pushing hard for marriage. He’s in another country, but he’s worked here before so I don’t think that is any motivating factor.

Long story short, he is very needy in some ways. And I’ve found he is pretty much broke too. It doesn’t feel right anymore, so I need to say goodbye.

I know I shouldn’t have any trouble with this, I am 50 years old. But how do I go about this in a kind way? This is strange, but aside from getting divorced, I’ve NEVER broken up with anybody before.

Thanks.

WW

Growing up I had a nodding acquaintance with the truth. As I matured, I found that being honest and upfront saved the day. I didn't have to remember who I told what, AND I also didn't have to cover my tracks.

While the truth may seem to hurt others for a bit, they will recover...and don't you owe this to them, and yourself? I say be honest and forthright with him.

Tell him that you have enjoyed the time you've had together and will always think of him in kind ways, but the time has come for you to take a different path; yet you wish him well. Be honest, be kind, but be yourself! I've always felt you were a very smart woman, so I'm sure you will find the way. I'm positive!

Thanks Jaw Jaw, I know you're right.

I guess part of me is feeling guilty because the money part is so important. We all have problems and such, and I'd hate it if I was the one without and somebody judged a relationship with me based in big part on that. But, his situation is his own doing, he chased a dream for a couple of years (took a sabbatical), had a great time, and now it's time to buckle down again. And the job market is in the toilet everywhere. He's got some big debt too, and although he says he'll "take care of it", it worries me.

He DID say get a pre-nup and he'd sign anything I put in front of him. But I just can't do it.

I work hard every single day. I can take care of myself just fine, but my ex was a spender and I am paranoid about having money problems down the road.

Thanks for listening, as always!

WW

Making judgments of people is not the same as evaluating their commitment to you, in the long run. It sounds to me as if you are giving it due diligence as far as your own needs and if they are not being met, or if you have no expectation of them being met in the future, then I would have to come to the same conclusion as you basically already have. You answered your own question when you said, his situation is his own doing, he chased a dream for a couple of years (took a sabbatical), had a great time, and now it's time to buckle down again. And the job market is in the toilet everywhere. He's got some big debt too, and although he says he'll "take care of it", it worries me.

It wouldn't be the pre-nup that would concern me, it would be the lackluster approach to "chasing a dream," if that DREAM was having fun for a year...with no direction. I may be reading that wrong, too. Forgive me if I am but that's how I read it.

We have to all find what suits us and our hearts; AND our journey in life. It sounds as if you've already made the decision that this isn't right, but the actual breaking up part is your quandary. I just bet you figure out what to do. I have faith in you!

Actually it was a 2-year break that began with moving to be with a long-term girlfriend. Three months later that had ended and he moved on, traveling around for another year +. The two year break culminated in training for a new line of work (fun, but low paying, and not very in demand). Then back home (and now living with relatives) because the money ran out.

He isn't lazy, but is lonely and wanting to start life anew with someone special.

The physical attraction is great, that's part of the problem. It's been MANY years since I've had those kinds of feelings for anyone. He treats me very well, except for one anger episode when I told him I wanted to slow things down. I made him leave my house at that time and haven't seen him since (but we are talking).

He is very apologetic, and I believe him.

Red flags galore, and "good stuff" mixed in as well.

Lord help me do this, and soon.

WW

What would you advise me to do, if I were presenting a case such as yours to you.
Reread everything you've written, distancing yourself from the emotion and pretending I wrote it all... what would you suggest I do?

One question - what is the likelihood that the family he is living with is ready for him to find his own place?

I know Gims, I would advise "run like the wind." It would be easier if he wasn't so darn nice and willing to work on everything. Long before we ever met in person (and had a romantic interest in each other) he expressed the desire to find someone to love and settle down. Of course, I didn't know it then but he was probably emotionally rebounding from the earlier lost relationship. Although it "had" been over for over a year when we first talked.

Send good vibes for strength and determination, I'm going to need it.

Boomer Women Rule! LOL...

WW

Oh WW....when I read that, "he is willing to bla...bla...bla." the first thing that entered my mine was, "he has nothing to lose, everything to gain, why wouldn't he?"

Forgive me if I am overstepping my boundaries. I will repeat that I believe you to be a strong, determined and intelligent woman and you will do what's best for you.

Gims, I'm so glad to see you here! Hey, maybe it's ME that's been missing?

You're not overstepping a THING Jaw Jaw. Yes, I am strong, determined and intelligent. That doesn't mean I don't need a swift kick every now and then to remind me to stay true to myself when I start to waver (over a good-looking, younger-than-me man).

LOL...

WW

Hi WW. Sorry to hear you're going through this and I understand the struggles you're feeling. JJ and Gims give profound and honest answers.
Sometimes the heart can over-ride the brain when it comes to feelings and emotions for another person. You see all the good and want to downplay the negative/red flags in hopes that the good will be enough.
The main red flag (and I see several) that stood out to me is the guy getting 'angry' because you asked him to slow down.
I'm concerned that you felt guilty for his financial situation. Honey, it's a good thing to worry about something like that. Maybe I'm old fashioned (I'm 58) but I believe it's a man's responsibility to pay his bills, support his wife and family and not run away from his obligations to play for a year. Then look for a woman to rescue him while he gets back on his feet and get angry with her when she isn't moving as fast as he'd like her to.
I know I'm being kinda blunt about this but if you rescue this guy you'll be rescuing him for the rest of your life...probably. I could be all wrong here.
How long have you known him? How long did he know you before wanting to get married. How long did you know him before he got angry with you for wanting to slow down?
I'm not trying to say he's not a good guy...but, he doesn't sound very responsible to me.
You say you're attracted to him...that's wonderful, but it's what's on the inside that really counts. If you do marry this man and he ends up not changing, no matter how cute he is now, it's going to get ugly and you're going to be the one carrying all the responsibility in the relationship.
Another question...how did he get so in debt? Do you know what his debts are? I know that today a lot of people are having financial struggles because of the economy.
To me, and this is just my ever-so-humble-opinion...a real man is able to support his family from the get-go. And he won't expect you to become his wife until he's straightened out his debts.
I'd take JJ's advice in how to say goodbye...she's got a good head on her shoulders.

Whirlwind, I smell a bit of desperation on his part. When I smell that, regardless of the situation, I smile and walk away.

Sounds to me WW, like it would be best to dump him and his baggage now then to marry him and get embroiled in a real mess if and when he reverts back to his angry, childish behavior, and he could!!! If you like the sex part, keep him around for a boy toy but I wouldn't marry this guy before he has proven himself worthy for a lot longer. He's not even married and already talking about a prenup, whats that about? Besides once married his problems, debts etc., become yours as well, believe me I learned this the HARD way!!!

Yeah, that angry night was bad. It was the only time I saw that side of him. Called me ugly names, threw a pair of shoes at the wall. Later called, cried, was very apologetic, said that had never happened before (which after talking to his family I believe). I still haven't seen him again, we've just talked.

He is doing everything I ask, even if he doesn't like it. I "am" in control as to when or if we see each other again, when we talk, etc.

Not sure where the debt came from. When the house sold, he used those proceeds to travel instead of paying off the credit cards. Says he can make the payment and not to worry about the rest, to put in the pre-nup that the debt is his and his alone (but it is around 30 grand).

I know you all are right. I know what the right thing to do is. I'd just like to give it some more time and see if he straightens himself out. But he wants exclusive commitment in the meantime, he doesn't believe in dating more than one person at a time.

I guess what really bothers me more than anything is, I know in his heart he is sincere and really wants a commitment and family and love. He's proven that with his own family, and with his attitude (and meeting) mine. And his bad choices earlier in life are going to prevent me from being able to be "the one".

This will probably be taken care of by the weekend. I'll be sad, but I'll be OK. I always am, just like the rest of you.

Thanks again...

WW

WW, thank God for our sensible minds. I think they develop better and better as we age. I've been in many a heated argument, but never has a man thrown shoes around. That is a big no no. And come to think of it, I've never thrown anything either. I think while throwing, I'd be angry about having to clean up afterwards.

Calling someone ugly names, throwing things, apologizing and saying it never happened before, are all signs of an abusive personality. I bet it has happened before, and will happen again. Been there. The other sign of an abusive personality is pushing for intimacy and/or marriage too soon. I think you have identified a lot of red flags here. I have a friend who was divorced for years, had a good life, retired with plenty of income, her own home. She met a guy taking dancing lessons, he was broke, unemployed and pushed and pushed until she let him move in with her after two months. He kept pushing for marriage even though she claimed she did not want to get married. Well, after a year, they got married. She supported him for awhile until she demanded he get a job, which he did and kept that for awhile, got fired, got another job and was let go from that, and she is back supporting him. She has totally changed. Her friends and family have a hard time being around her. It is sad.

I'm not an attorney but I think his debts are your debts once you marry...prenup or not. I don't think the creditors care a rats you know what if there's a prenup or not. You take his name...you take his debts.
And pushing early on and hard to get married is a sign of neediness and insecurity...not confidence and maturity. Pitching a fit (he says only one time...I do NOT believe that at all) means you didn't give him control and he handles that by being physical...truth is you don't know how far this person may go if he doesn't get his way. There are a lot of women in their graves from guys they trusted.

I'd run like my pants were on fire from this guy.

Two more tidbits, then I’ll stop sharing about this.

Like most everyone on the planet, I have a Facebook page. The other night, I deleted a few photos of “us” from one of the albums on my page. Less than three minutes later, my phone is ringing, wanting to know if we were “broken up”, and why I was taking the photos of us off there. I told him that he had those same photos and if he wanted to see them he could look at his own site or computer.

The next day, he said he’d talked to his brother about it and they’d decided I was “sanitizing” my Facebook page for whatever reason, and that was fine. But please let him know next time I was going to do something like that so he wouldn’t be blindsided by it, that would just be a courteous thing to do. Also said he didn’t sleep very well after that wondering what was up.

He wants to talk and say I love you before bed every night. A few days ago, it was late, I was tired, so I sent a “good dreams, sleep well” text (and we’d already talked for an hour earlier in the evening). He texted back with the “I love you”, but I didn’t return the sentiment, instead I sent “xoxo”. The next morning I had an email (written in the middle of the night) saying if I couldn’t say it or return the words, did that mean I didn’t love him anymore. I HAD said those words three or four times in the earlier conversation.

Maybe somebody else can learn a bit from this. It has certainly been eye-opening for me, and I’ll be much more on the lookout for warning signs from now on.

I feel for your friend cyclinggal. I do NOT want to end up like that.

WW

It was easy to get sucked in, some of the stuff he said sounded so “reasonable.” Like once he moved here and found a job, he’d be able to contribute to the household. And since he’d probably have to travel a bit for work, he wouldn’t be “in my face” all the time and I could have some of the “alone time” I cherish so much. And he’d make friends and have other interests besides “me.”

Those statements don't sound like a “needy” person.

I still should have paid more attention to the other red flags though. Another "difficult" lesson learned.

No, those statements sound like he knew just what you wanted to hear and he said it...

Good LORD Whirlwind, can you say INSECURE!!! This guy reminds me of a stalker, a mental stalker, is he kidding that you need to tell him before you change your own site, WHAT??

I hate to be blunt but after reading every word you've written, this guy is a LOSER big time...He shows ALL the signs...

You had best cut the cord and run, run run!!!

The goodbye email is drafted and will be sent first thing tomorrow morning. I'll be at work, so "unavailable" to chat or talk or email. By tomorrow night he'll have had hours to process it, so hopefully that will make it easier and my phone won't ring tomorrow night. (And if it does, I'm not going to answer anyway).

When we talked tonight, he said he wanted to drive down here tomorrow, even if just for a couple of days because he misses me so much (GAG). Then he could go visit friends for the week, then back here for the following weekend. He's not trying at all to get his life together.

And I tried to steer the conversation toward productive stuff, and all he will talk about is our love, and how we connect, and how much he misses me and wants to be here. (GAG!!!)

Somehow after today this is not going to be hard at all. Funny how the right mindset makes all the difference in the world.

Thanks ladies for all of your support and advice. Love you all!

WW

Bless your heart and you are so right about the right mindset which does usually appear sooner or later, sooner is always better!

WW, let us know how it goes. I KNEW you would do what you felt was best for you. Sometimes just talking it out brings things to light that maybe being so close to the situation, were hidden. Or at least shadowed in the background. You go girl....

Like you I would be shocked by the person's "darker" side of himself. Not pretty and not worthwhile for any harmonious future.

WW, good thing you are patient with yourself. Now the future forward with clarity without this guy.

Well, I sent the email and then didn't respond to any of his return emails/texts. After a couple of days, there was no more contact. He is very angry and is posting things directed at me on his Facebook page (about how he was lied to, how dishonest people are, etc.) but I don't care about that.

Funny, I had already mentally disconnected from (and lost feeling) for him, I just hate to burn bridges. But, it is sometimes very necessary.

Thanks again gals!

WW

Glad you cut that cord! You should completely disconnect from him on Facebook, as if you never knew him.
He is more immature than some young adults we know.

WW, your mention of a changed mindset is right on. Once you've made up your mind, there's no looking back. I'm glad you stood up for yourself!

WW...all this shows two things...you have the capacity to want and receive love and you have the strength to walk away from manipulation and some who's unhealthy mentally. Good for you.

I hope this guy isn't dangerous where you might need a restraining order against him. He sounds about as needy and possessive as one can be.

Proud of you WW!!!!