Emotional/mental cheating

Something Chatty posted got me to thinking. When is cheating really cheating? If he looks at dirty books behind your back and frequently, is it cheating?

If he visits porno sites on the Internet frequently, is it cheating?

If he forms a close, no sex, relationship with another woman, is it cheating?

If he's always looking at other women, even when you're with him, is it cheating?

If he refuses to be sexual or intimate with you, is it cheating in a way, like cheating you out of intimacy, etc.?

We don't have to go into Bill Clinton's history to describe what defines real sex but what could be cheating to a woman may not be to a man...unless he catches his wife doing the same thing!

Input or ideas on this?

According to Dr. Phil (and Oprah) and especially ME AND MY OPINION all of the above constitutes cheating because whenever he takes the time away from you and your personal intimacy he is cheating you, thusly cheating on you. Tell me, would it hurt any less to know your husband is actually holding another woman in his arms or just wanting to and thinking of her or them when with you, or NOT being with you because he's mentally with them. Sick I know but then remember I've done phone sex (calls) with many many of these sicko's and hear what they think...Ladies you would be surprised NO, shocked is a better word here. Men really are pigs, they really are...

That's right Chatty, I forgot. I guess more and more people are using the defense of "Internet Cheating" in divorce cases these days. I knew a man whose wife left him for some man she'd never even met in person but had been corresponding with on the Internet. Strange.

Do you think there is something missing in a marriage when there is this type of cheating or is it just a man being a pig? I'm writing right now on this subject so exploring the topic.

Is it better that he has Internet or Phone Sex than finding a call girl and physically having sex?

Did any of these men give reasons or did they truthfully admit they just wanted outside sex? Also, with Internet sex, there is no talking, just looking (I think, I've never done it ) so is it as damaging?

I think I would be more upset about an emotional affair. Telling another woman things my husband should be sharing with me and why is it easier to share outside the marriage than within it? What causes it? Boredom?

Maybe there are women who WANT their husband's to find it on the Internet so they'll leave them alone!

If someone becomes emotionally involved with someone of the opposite sex (or not! )outside of their marriage, then that could be construed as "cheating".

If someone feels more open with another person and looks forward to the times they share and not their spouse, they're not working hard enough on their own relationship and cheating their spouse.

Can men and women just be friends? I believe that is true. Can they leave the sex out of the relationship? Hmmm.. If they're both secure in themselves and have good marital relationships with their respective spouses, I don't see why not. But, all it takes is one time, to look at that person in a new light, a new way, to ruin a perfectly good friendship and possibly a marriage too.

Using the Internet is the same as if you met someone face to face. I believe the intimacy grows faster on the Internet because there isn't the same code of conduct as there is when meeting and talking to someone face to face. The anonimity releases someone from ethics or morals that would normally keep them in check when face to face.

How many times have people told others their deepest darkest secrets over a chat or in a forum, then gasp and say "I've never told anyone that before!" That kind of intimacy breeds and has no where to go but up, or down if you want to look at it that way..

And, as Chatty can tell us, even over the phone people (men) can become a bit more "free" with their thoughts and feelings and say things they wouldn't normally say in a face to face relationship. However, I believe that phone sex and Internet sex are definitely cheating.

Dianne you are so right and Vicki let me see if I can answer your questions.

I don't necessarily believe theres something missing at home with some men that do phone or internet sex. Some have admitted to me that their wives are great and do anything they can to satisfy them BUTand thats the word used, there are things they feel or think about that they could NEVER discuss or do with their wife. They can with me because I act like its just fascinating and so exciting (I am after all called a phone actress) so I act and these fols are so anxious to hear someone agree with them, they eat it up. Some men however are just pigs...plain and simple. If a woman is going to look the other way its easier if hes doing his cheating with a voice on the phone or an image on the screen than actually rolling around with a woman in person.YOU CAN'T CATCH OR SPREAD DISEASE OVER A PHONE OR COMPUTER, the wife is actually safer this way. Reaons, I've heard them all. My wife is a prude, cold, uses sex as a weapon, and so on. I have had men actually fall in love with my character, I mean cry and beg her to meet them and sent me gifts, expensive gifts and money to get me to love them. All this was taken from their family's. I'm sure the family was comfortable too but who knows? Just this morning I had a new guy who said it was his first time calling BUT and theres that word again, his wife didn't want to be bothered anymore and told him, "oh go find a friend," he did, me!! He will be a good repeat caller. I can tell. Ladies I could tell you so many stories and maybe will one day write it all down. These men are cheating, no doubt about it, for however the call or chat takes, thy are stealing that time and that energy and yes, that 'release' from their spouse....

I would feel deeply betrayed if my husband got emotionally close to another woman and especially since he's so closed with me. Phone sex would get his you know what's cut off and Internet sex would just really hurt. I would want to smack him in the back of the head and I'm a woman who is against violence!

Chatty, you should write a book. I bet there are a lot of women who would be interested in what goes on behind the scenes. I would. Especially since I feel I know you and believe you're a very special person. I could never do it...I'd either start laughing or they would hear me snoring.

Well........I'm not so sure I think it's cheating and I don't necessarily think there is something missing in the marriage if a man (or woman) watches some porn or reads a Playboy magazine now and then. And you're right, at least it doesn't spread disease (I used to work in a sexually transmitted disease clinic.) I think I'd draw the line at phone sex though. I don't think there's something missing in the marrige - not in all cases - rather something missing in themselves. You're right - they are pigs!!
(Present husband excluded )
Louisa

My boss has listened in (they can monitor) on me and every now and then he'll ask me not to try to council these guys and get them to appreciate what they have at home. I do what I can in cases where the man admits he's happy at home but then there are those that are just plain oinkers and nothing I say would change that. This for me is just a JOB, yes, I am good at it and make good money. I have become spoiled, tried to go straight but couldn't afford to work for $7.00 to $9.00 an hour while paying for gas, clothes being cleaned, lunchs etc. So I do this. I am an actress, I act and thats all I do. I sit at my computer and write, file my nails or even cook while I wear a headset and jabber. It's really funny to think I am a 64 year old GORGEOUS but overweight Grandmother of 3. I say I'm 30, Long waist length dark hair, soft teal blue eyes. 5 ft. 6 (the only truth)and a 36D-24-35....Ya, in their dreams, ha ha...Hey, it pays the bills....

I agree there is definitely something missing within themselves if men/women need to go outside their marriages for sexual pleasures. I also think something is missing within the marriage.

I'm fortunate because I'm in a good marriage, but I think it's pitiful when people can't be themselves with their spoouses. Sex within a marriage can be anything the couple wants it to be. If there is something one partner wants in their sex life, they should be able to ask for it from their partner. There shouldn't have to be another outlet if the couple agrees to outdo one another with kindness. The desire should be to please the partner.

You ladies know I'm PollyAnna, but that's my two cents.

Chatty, that's so funny. It serves them right to be lied to. They live lies. I'm getting this visual of a woman sitting at a pc filing her nails and talking into a headset. And some guy thinking he's so wonderful this woman really likes him. They're not just pigs, they're stupid, gullible pigs.
Louisa

Sex in marriage helps develop the most intimate of adult relationships. Intimacy is the primary asset of a marriage and any time it is spent outside the marriage the other partner is cheated of a very precious aspect.
Sex outside marriage, either physical, electronic, or simply imagined injures the intimacy between the partners and cheats the marital partner of a primary marital asset. It is cheating.

I'm almost a newlywed so at this point sex is a huge part of our relationship. It is one way we are becoming more and more intimate.
The intimacy of our marriage will hopefully continue to grow even as the effects of age ravage our physical bodies.
We are guarding the intimacy of our marriage to the best of our ability.
smile

Whether it is considered cheating or not, any emotional estrangement is destined to cause bigger problems. While one of you wrote that reading or watching porn isn't cheating, I'd suggest reading playboy or penthouse forum together. It may open the door to communication that might not otherwise happen.

Regardless of how close we are to someone, all of us have our hang ups about intimacy and although I've been w/ my husband for 17plus years, it took me about 15 before I was able to finally be completely open about my sexual needs and likes and dislikes. I don't know why that is, we always had a good relationship sexually, but things can get stale and we need to be able to tell our partner that.

But finally, cheating is not confined to sex or extra marital affairs or porn or any of that. My husband admitted to me once that he felt more threatened by my ability to talk to strangers of any gender, to befriend someone easily, than ever about me running around w/ someone sexually. All of us in a relationship need to feel that we are that special someone, that cherished, needed person to someone else. It's too easy when we're living lives, working and raising kids to start taking things for granted, putting the relationship last. I know I've been guilty of it and so has my husband.

Once that gap exists, cheating of some kind is sure to follow.

AMEN, AMEN TO THAT You Kathryn hit the nail on the head. I will never know why things are the way they are betwen the sexes, Lord knows I have tried to figure it out. Women are so different from men it's mind boggeling. But there are about a thousand phone sex companies in the States today and they all make money for the owners, plus the discusting sex sites on the internet and all the Adult book stores opening yearly ALL getting rich on garbage mostly only frequented by males..Something is terribly wrong somewhere in this society we live and raise our children in. Why the males mostly I mean. Some females are trash as well but not as a rule...oh well.

I'm seriously concerned about the generation coming of age. The simple television shows can warp these little minds. Add movies and internet and you can have a course for destruction.

Kids have too much screen time! Don't get me started....

Last night while sitting at the computer and doing the ocsasional phone call (was working) I decided to ask the married callers a question if they seemed talkative. The question I posed was:
B]What does the word MARRIAGE mean to you??[/B]

I asked the question to a dozen callers and the conscensus was its just a TITLElike saying Mr. or that a man's a Plumber or a CEO or a Doctor. Its like his job, he has certain duties to perform for the boss (wife.)
Not ONE man said anything that had to do with love, honesty or commitment. Several even said and if you don't do a good job, you get fired, you know, divorced. Maybe it was because they were talking to another woman but they seemed truly serious and matter-of-fact about it all. Scary, huh??

Chatty, you are in a unique position to write a book that would help a lot of women. You could ask a lot of questions like that of the men who call you. We're all curious as to what constitutes cheating and why men (and women too) cheat. You could do a survey that would develop data unavailable anywhere else just by asking questions and taking notes. I don't think you have to get permission unless you use names, etc.

If you need help getting a list of survey questions together, I've done a few and will volunteer. It might give us all at least an idea of why some of the men on your phone do what they do.

This could be God's calling for your life. It's a way to use all of your life's experience (even the ones that do not necessarily look like blessings all the time) for the glory of God. Seems to me that God does that a lot. At least in my life.

smile

I've been away/busy for a while and certainly have missed a great chat.

Chatty, I must've missed the post where you went back to 'chatting.' Hope all is well for you there.

My two cent:

I agree that some men are just pigs! I was careful to state, 'some' here. Since my line of business is computer related, if/when I instant chat w/someone, it is mainly in the computer chat lobby or related (sometimes hacker's chatrooms have great shortcuts to max problems).

More recently, during this past summer, I met someone online that could help w/a puter related issue. The problem was complex, therefore, we spent a few hours, then days chatting. Upon the completion of this project/problem, we continued to chat. We found that we had comparible needs; he had the skill and I had the public relation/customers needed to run a business. Both of us needed revenue. Thus, a business relationship was formed.

During the course of our now business relationship, we exchanged info which led to the revealations of our sexes since our screen names didnt reveal them. Upon his findings that I am a woman, his chat ettique changed.

He started discussing 'home-life' with me. I called it protocal and lended him an ear. Since we had formed this 'relationship' I gave him deep, heartful and caring advice/opinions/and possible woman's interpretation of behaviors.

The inevitable conversation is always bound to surface as we are adults; SEX. My business partner is now intrigued by my 'protocal' conversation, patience as well as convictions. We discuss sex thoroughly. Now he's in love!

I need to re-route this conversation since he's so off course, right? Well, we get into this very topic: Is internet sex, relationship, cheating. I told him that in a way, what he's been chatting about w/me is cheating because he's told me things about her that I should not know, I should not be the wiser of your anatomical endowment, nor carnal preferences. Of course, he begs to differ.

Another example: My current male friend, the minister for those that are aware, told me that he still has feelings for the wife he's had for 20+ years. Immediately, yet subtly, I back off. As much as I'd like to say that it's all due to honor, my decision is also based on protecting my own feelings and interests.

While, on the other hand, I was just an honorary guest for a friend that didn't back off when the man stated that he was having marital problems. He and his wife divorced and my friend married him and they seem happy with one another.

What really constitutes cheating? How do you know when he or the combo of problems are worth delving into someone else's love. Could it be that her problem w/my business partner can turn into a real relationship since he agrees w/me? Could it be that I am supposed to show this minister that I can be his new and improved version of love? Who really knows?

Like Chatty, I was just talking. Her pay was for sure. My talking could lead to better output-revenue. The likehood of me ever actually physically meeting this man is real slim. During our 'protocal' conversation, he told me why he didn't attend his significant other's mother's final call. Her mother was very ill and they made a life and death decision to pull the plug.

Now, when this man shared with me his stupid reason for not being by her side, no matter what was going on, I cringed. I actually argued with this person-on-online, my business partner/wanna-be-lover. I knew personally that I would not want him.

But, back to the main session, he cheated her of the comfort of his love, even tho (maybe) it used to be love. I personally would go to be by anyone's side that I love or have loved for something like so serious as to have to pull the plug on their mother.

Unfortunately though, the woman that may think her husband/mate is cheating via the internet with some floozy w/o morals or convictions, this one, granted she thought that, was wrong. What can I do with a man that explicitly states that he purposely did stand by his woman's side in such a case? NOTHING! Well, unless I'm a low self-esteem, cheap, no-good-for-nothing sl^t that gets off on being abused.

Contro-Smiles

Smilinize, its true I have the ability to delve into the psyche of alot of these men and I have kept notes for years. I would be very happy to have any womans questions answered via these men on the phone. Just send me your questions as a group or singularily and I'll get you some honest answers......

I find it amazing that no matter how hard I try to remove myself from this job, for one reason or another the necessity of my returning always crops up. I do believe someone is trying to tell me something...

Sugar, This is the way it all starts except I am not on the internet. Hey DO YOU WANT A JOB??

I think my first question would be:

(If married) Would he be upset to discover his wife was having phone or Internet sex with a man? Would he apply the same excuses to her behavior as he does for his own?

Chatty, I think I would move into the questioning slowly and subtly. Maybe put them at ease with impersonal questions about how they found out about your service, about their wife and children. Their age and profession. If they are married and how long. Then ask them specifics as to what they want from the conversation (i.e. sexual release, emotional touch, lustful adventure, fettish, kinky stuff? Maybe what other types of sex they engage in and how often and when and how it started along with other things you might want to know.
Then continue with some other conversation.
Then maybe how anonymous sex differs from sex in person.
Maybe why they are seeking anonymous sex instead of having it with their wives?
Though it might be fun to know what they would think if it were their wives doing what they are doing, it would probably put them on the defensive and lose their cooperation and them as a repeat customer Though you might be able to do it if you used a sweet voice.

Chatty, if you developed a well documented survey of that type, even if you didn't write a book, it might be saleable to phone sex companies as marketing data and/or as a psychological study.
Seems like information that might be helpful to parents as well as spouses as we contend with this electronic onslaught of sexuality.
smile

BTW Sugar: Fascinating stuff!

Smile, you are so clever.

I'd love to know if they think there should be consequences to their behavior when their wives find out.

Do they perceive what they're doing as wrong?

That's a really good question, Dotsie. If they preceive it as wrong.. why are they still doing it?

Vicki,
Those men do things they know are wrong because they are wearing their conscience in their PANTS.

smile

Thanks Dianne.

What's her face divorced what's his name...you know...that singer with the silver hair...to me it seems he thinks he's so good looking? The word "fox" comes to mind for some reason...? The silver fox maybe is his nickname...? He ran up a huge bill on 900 numbers, she found out and divorced him.I can see him now, just can't remember his name. Don't much care for his singing either *especially* after the story came out about his cheating.

I'm death on loyalty and it's a 2-way street. I do NOT care WHAT the circumstances are...people do not need sex to live. So please do not give me some cock and bull story about why.

There is no why. There is only a lousy person who has cheated on the most precious human relationship known to humankind and who sinks lower than whale manure when coming up with all sorts of pathetic reasons and excuses.

Cheating is cheating.

Why do people cheat? IMO, they have no character. They float with the wind, going to and fro with no thought of anyone but themselves. I don't like cheaters of whatever flavor for whatever reason. Every cheater I've ever known was a loser.

Can you tell I feel strongly about this? grin

The only difference in now and 25 years ago is now I've had experience castrating animals.

Sandra, grinning a evil, wicked grin!

It was Kenny Rogers. When I heard about his cheating, I stopped buying his music. He actually had his own 800 number set up so women could call him for phone sex. What a perv. And, his wife was so beautiful, which proves nothing is ever good enough sometimes.

Have any of you ever been with a man who is always looking at other women when he's with you? My ex did that. At first, it made me feel so unworthy until I realized it was his problem, not mine. Yet another reason he's my ex.

GET OUT! Kenny Rogers did that? STOP! You don't say! er..ah...and what was the number?

What? okay...okay...I was only joshn' anyhoo...

teehee... JJ

Yep JJ, it was Kenny. And just before that happened I went to one of his concerts and he gave a little lecture. He was so sweet. Talked about how music has changed from songs of love to songs of passion.

Darn, these guys. I think it was worse. I think he was telephone stalking someone too. Don't see much of him any more though I think he remarried (not sure). Oh well...

smile

I wouldn't call him on his toll free number to tell him he's lower than pond scum. He probably found some twit to marry him. There are a lot of woman who aren't heavy in the brain department.

Actually Thistle is correct and now that its out in the open Kenny Rogers and MANY more celebrities have called. Kenny called many times before he finally put in the 800 number and what you may not know is tht the "black woman" he married and just had a new baby with he met over the phone, she acted as his Mistress...Its common knowledge in the phone sex industry. Oh, and Smile, it was very nice of you to offer your advice and you're right on as usual and I mean that BUT honey, I am way ahead of you there. I not only know what to ask but when, I know when their vulnerable and will tell me anything...and they do too....

Do you think that if people cheat, they will always cheat, or can they be cured? My ex cheated on me, then confessed, then I forgave him, then he cheated on me again and married the woman he cheated with -- and she was cheating on her husband who was also cheating on her at the time. So sometimes I wonder what kind of relationship that would be -- two people who cheated on others, ended up with each other. Will they be always wondering how faithful the other is? expecting unfaithfulness?
Anyway, I'm grateful to be rid of him, because I've been married now for three years to the most wonderful man I can imagine -- a perfect match for me too.

DJ, I know people who have cheated. Unfortunately, I think they're hard to trust again. Some have cheated on the same person more than once. I wouldn't want to be invloved with someone who has cheated in the past. My thought is that if they cheated on another person, what's to keep them from cheating on me.

I can't say once a cheater, always a cheater, because I'm sure there's the exception, but I think the rule is probably leans more towards a lifestyle. Some people like the thrill. Sick, huh?

Chatty, you might not be able to discolose this but how do you know it's a star when they call? Do they have to give you the name on a credit card or do they want you to know who you're talking with? This is so interesting! Give me the details girlfriend! I just gotta know.

I think there are different reasons why people cheat but I believe my ex did because of his own insecurity (which he tried to push off on me) and he needed to know he was still attractive enough to get another woman to do him. He was kind of a sex freak too. There wasn't enough sex in the world to keep him happy. Gads. It got old. Glad I'm out of that mess.

With men who cheat( and I guess women too) it's all about THEM.

Dianne, sorry it took so long to answer but I've been away....so to speak. Well, most of the time you know who the person is (famous) because they tell you, these mens egos are usually the "biggest part" of them if you get my drift, hehe!! I never get anything now but the computer message saying I have a call and to enter my code number to take the call. Before however I did know the mans name ahead of time. Some used a fake name but with Kenny Rogers his voice was a dead give away and he was happy to say who he was...ego, ego....

Chatty
That is so interesting. I can see your book evolving from questions such as that.
Maybe you could contact a university to see if they would pay you to conduct some kind of survey. Maybe some type of sociological study. Wouldn't that be cool.
Keep asking questions. I love hearing the answers.
smile

I'm fascinated too. A few years ago, a call girl from Hollywood wrote a tell all book about her famous clients. Now, when I see one of them on the screen, I remember what she wrote! EEEWWW!

Are you saying that their ego is bigger than their !#*& ??????? Hmmm.

Dianne, thats exactly what I'm saying....unless they're Mike Tyson who is known for his 14 inch "personality." Most of the Vegas call girls refused to visit his room when he was in town. He was not only a "huge" personality, he he!
He was also very rough and liked a back door entrance to his buildings, get my drift?? Yuk, when these girls turn down that kind of money the word spreads faster than fleas on a dog. He also has called and now thats a person you can't keep from laughing at, his speaking voice is high pitched and his grammer atrocious. I only got him once and actually had to hang up from laughing...bad girl!!!

Gosh, I never heard about his huge personality! But the voice. You're right. It just doesn't go along with the rest of him.

Okay, do you mind giving me details on how this works? You can say no if ya wanna. They call a number and you get a message on your computer? Is that what you said? I'm confused (what's new?). I understand you might not want to share and that's okay but I'm so curious (nosey).

Dianne, I am not afraid to share anything with anyone who is curious and asking for the right reason.....Now first my phone rings, I answer and a computer generated voice says "this is ZMC, please enter your code." I punch in a couple of numbers (my code) and then it says, "you have a 900, or IC or receipt # call. Please begin in 3 seconds."
I only have one of those 3 types of calls at a time.
Our company call is a receipt # call it can last up to 15 minutes only, then the computer disconnets him. I make $5.00 no matter how long that call lasts up to the 15 minutes.
The 900 calls can last up to 17 minutes. I make .30 cents a minute on these calls.
The IC call is a over flow call from another service that we do and these call also pay .30 cents per minute but can go as long as they want. I've made as much as $18.00 on one of these.
I get a check once a month from my boss and the computer keeps track of all the money I have coming. I've been there now for nearly 2 years and its never made a mistake. I usually earn between $600. and $900. a month BUT remember I am at home comfortable with no out of pocket expenses. I can log on or off whenever I want to. To log on I just call a number and enter my code and then it will play my 30 second message to anyone who's calling, if they like what they hear they dial my extension and I am routed the call. I hope this answers some of your questions and if not ask away, I am happy to answer anything. Beng at home and never too busy allows me all the writing time I could ask for.

Wow. Fascinating. Thanks for the info. I've always wondered how it worked. Years ago, I saw a 65-year old grandmother on a television show who did what you do. She gave a sample of her "phone voice." Amazing. A caller would never know.

I hate talking on the phone so this wouldn't be a good career for me. I usually just look at my Caller ID and don't answer when I'm working (writing). My time is so important to me and sometimes, people just wanna talk with nothing to say so I don't go there. I return phone calls at the end of the day.

Thanks for the info. Appreciate your honesty, as always.

Since answering my phone means money, I always answer but am quick to hang up on nonsense, salespeople etc. and if its a friend I just say I'm working and they know and hang up. Usually I will call them back on my cell unless very busy writing and trying to get my thoughts down before they disappear from my head all together. Its true this job isn't for everyone. I am gathering much information on male behavior and their way of thinking and will one day write that book. Thanks Dianne for asking and NOT being judgemental, you see there are those BUT then thats another story...he he!!

I have tried very hard to not judge people for anything. Sometimes I fail at it but I'm doing a lot better than when I was younger. My parents condemned just about everyone and it offended me so I've sincerely worked at not being like them.

I believe, from a writers viewpoint, that when you write your book, it could be a huge bestseller. I'm serious! Most of us are curious about things like this and knowing what a wonderful person you are behind the scenes would really blow readers away. Now, another question: when you write your book, are you gonna name names? Wow!

Chatty Lady, I am fascinated by your job. It sounds very interesting and exciting and plenty of material for a book! Definitely! Wow!
Clairey x

Thanks Dianne and Claire for your comments. Now name names, hummm, never thought about doing that. I think just writing the characters in generalizations would do as well and no innocents would be hurt. I talked one night to a guy in Alabama whos wife was the daughter of a dear friend. His wife happened to be visiting her mother, my friend in Minnesota at the time. Shehas never known of his need to cross dress and be feminized. No way to find it out in a book that maybe many of your relatives and/or friends may be reading too. Most of the celeberties aren't as addicted and stupid as Kenny Rogers was and try to keep it quiet and a secret. I am not out to destroy anyone and its not my job to punish anyone either so my book will be NO NAMES! I have made a good living with my "trash talk" and don't think I am any better than some of the callers are but I am single, no one to hurt if known and I've done it with a book in mind all along. After a time I got lazy because this is soooo easy and I can do my writing without going out into the masses to try and make a living....Like my best friend says in jest, I'm just an old phone slut...shush, don't tell anyone, ha ha ha.

I admire you for that, Chatty.

You know, I've always wondered what causes cross dressing. Has something happened in childhood or are cross dressers some of those who claim to be trapped in a male body? I know transvestites say that...right? I knew a cross dresser once (he was my insurance man!) and he was built like a football player and there wasn't one ounce of him that seemed feminine. So, I've always been confused about that. Any input? Oh, I should mention that this church I attend sometimes has two cross dressers and darn it...they have better clothes than me!

None of the males I have spoken with about their cross dressing has any explanation but every one started at a young age being fascinated by the way there sisters or mothers clothes felt usually going through the hamper feeling the panties and sometimes stealing a pair to have. Most cross dressing men are not gay or even bi-sexual they just like to feel very feminine. Most are in the closet. Its the older ones, over 50 that suddenly begin to feel attracted to men, and thats what their fantasys are about. Not all but most. Then there are those that want to be dressed, make-up and all and go out to be picked jup by a man or more than one and forcedc to have sex with them both giving oral then being raped....It excites them to imagine this happening even though it is probably mostly in their minds....Strange but true.

This is fascinating and I really appreciate you being so open about it. I always had a fear of marrying a man and finding out he was a cross dresser and discover he's been borrowing my clothes! Now, that would make me mad!

I once tried to imagine what my husband would look like in a dress and heels and just the thought cracks me up. He just doesn't have the legs for it. They would look like two strings hanging out of the bottom of his dress!

Chatty, this is a very interesting topic, educational too, because it takes all kinds to make the world go around. But, please do not get any more explicit because I'm trying to keep this a G rated site. I know you understand.

I have a friend at church who was a man and is now a woman. I read her book and it was an eye opener. I'm much more compassionate than I was when these topics arise. It was heart wrenching to read how uncomfortable she was in her male body and went she went through to make all the necessary changes.

I don't promote any of these lifestyles, but I do have a place in my heart to love the people regardless...

Dotsie please give me alittle credit here, I would never get too graphic or come right out and say what needs to be said. I try to talk around the answers to the questions I'm asked, as honestly and "carefully" as possible. I would never want to insult asnyone with my answers. Dianne is right however about not knowing the signs and finding out one day the man you love has a SECRET!! Bet there lots of women whose husbands call in that would never believe it, "oh no! not my husband.....?"

I'm with you Dotsie. I don't believe any person would ever bring this pain on themselves. I mean, why would they?

I'm not sure if I ever mentioned this but my sister was married to a doctor for 25 years and they met in church as teenagers. After all those years, she discovers he's having an affair with a man AND is HIV Positive! Luckily, my sister wasn't infected but she reacted just like it had been another woman. Very painful time for her and still is. She's still angry that he "tricked her" but I believe he didn't. In the 60's there wasn't such a thing as gay. You were a queer and honestly, none of us REALLY believed that people actually did that sort of thing with the same sex. So, I think my ex brother in law really tried to be straight. I think that's why he went to church, trying to find a spiritual answer to his problem. I think he finally just gave up. My opinion anyway. But, I can understand how my sister feels too. In truth, she wasn't that happy with him anyway. He was a bossy, control freak.

BTW...it's my fault for asking Chatty so many questions. Sorry. I work with so many women who find out the man they married has a secret. I did with my ex...the abuser. Found out he'd been tried for rape and was arrested for exposing himself to young girls. Yuck. I wish somebody would have told me something...like he abused the woman he dated before me! Would have saved me a lot of heartache.

MixedMetaphors, I know that you are not trying to scaremonger, but Gosh you really made me think. I can be so naive sometimes, volunteering too much info and when I think how much personal stuff I have divulged on different forums already, it makes me cringe! My hubby wouldn't be too thrilled either. He is always warning me about it. We forget that anyone can click into the site and read what we have all written even though they may not post until they register. Gulp!

The way I see it, why on earth would anyone want to go to all the trouble of tracking me down from some anonymous post? I'm not that exciting.

I almost never post in the nude. And when I do, well, it's not all that thrilling anyway.
smile

Probably nobody would want to track us down from our posts but then again, maybe they would...Maybe something we have said would trigger them off to find out more about us.. Maybe even if we don't think that we are that exciting they might...............

I am all over the Internet. I was shocked...put my name in the search engine and hundreds of "goodies" came up. Reviews on my book I didn't even know existed, etc.

I don't know. Maybe I should stop posting entirely.

Gosh Dianne. I don't think anyone would like you to stop posting altogether though I am going to go and do the same thing as you did now and see what comes up! Gulp.....

C

Mixedm, thanks for the reminder. You are absolutely right. I preach to my children about being careful on the internet. I must do the same.

Well, well, I suppose I should thank Misex-whatever for her concern regarding my job. I signed no such agreement however my own conscience would never permit me from using anyones name (celebrity or not) regarding their bad habits. All this with Kenny Rogers happened ion's ago and he is the one that made it a public issue and that's the only reason I even mentioned his name. That said, I am shocked and dismayed that this wonderful venue for womens feelings has now been made a site of horrors to be afraid of, boogie man etc. I guess we may as well become nothing more than a Forum as so many others are with mindless chatter saying nothing at all, just blabber. No personal stuff what-so-ever. There are many many of those out there. I agree with Smile, never post naked and what a shock anyone stalking me, the phone sex Goddess,(ha,ha,ha) would get when they tracked me down Heck, I'd pay to see the look on their faces...Oh well, was fun while it lasted...

Some of the messages here would be perfect for the battered women on my site.

They are so accustomed to people making them fearful, preaching to them, warning them, making them feel guilty for being honest...it would be perfect! It would make them feel at home. Just like they felt when they lived in abuse...afraid to open their mouths.

How pitiful we would all be to allow FEAR to govern our posts. I for one will NOT! I intend to act, business as usual and suggest that all follow suit. The types that stalk victims would hardly be looking here. Be yourselves. We all use fictious names anyway and don't give our home information and believe you me if anyone wanted to find you bad enough and they had nothing but time and money to waste, they probably could find you, know anyone like that, I don't. I suggest my dear Boomer sisters we relax and enjoy this wonderful experience we all share. Unfortunately there are doomsday slayers
everywhere waiing to instill their own fears within you, don't fall victim to that...This is suppose to be FUN so lets have fun...

Oh wait. I was confused. Mixedmataphors must be the new facilitator. Sorry!

[ November 14, 2004, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: Dianne ]

I think my best defense against all the wackos out there is occasionally seeming more wacked out than they are.

Ladies...Ladies.

Let's stop this. I am not asking for explanation as to who said what to whom. I am also not saying lay down and let someone run over you either.

What I AM saying is that some how in the past week or so, we have lost sight of the REAL purpose of this wonderful haven for Boomer women. Stop what you are doing and read this post all the way thru. Don't make me come over there. I mean it!

Dotsie vision wasn't for bickering, fighting, cattyness, and hate to fill this cyberspace. It was for a big old house (if you will) that's full of open doors and rooms full of love and understanding. Peace. Helpfulness. Love for each other. HEALING. THE GOLDEN RULE. Any of this ringing in your ears? I hope so. What are we doing girls?

Yes, we have differing opinions and that's what makes this world such an interesting and wonderful place to be, but for the LOVE OF US ALL, don't let's try and force feed our voices down someone else's throat. Don't let's scare off would-be Boomer Babies who need friends...who need a place to call their cyberhome. Who need healing. Who are scared maybe and just needs a friend.

If you were wrong (and I'm NOT taking sides here) SAY SO. Do it privately, openly, or put it on a billboard. I don't give a rip HOW you do it...but DO IT.

I believe in this site with all of my heart and being. I believe in you all, and I think that sometimes, (self included) we either get up in a bad mood, or we are just out of sorts and we attack. Every one's got their own reasons for saying what they say. Does it make it right? NO IT DOESN'T. I am including myself in this hand-slapping, behind the wood-shed talk, okay?

But girls....before it's too late and we've destroyed everything this site stands for, let your apology be felt. Do it NOW. Don't let hurt feelings fester. Get a grip!

I'm starting this off myself because I love each and every one of you gals.

If I have, in any of the past forums, hurt your feelings by being too blunt or forcing my own beliefs on you, then you have my most sincere apology. I promise to be the best friend that I can possibly be to you, and for you. I want you to grow, to be all that you can be, and to have my unconditional love and friendship. I pledge this to you all.

Now--let's start anew.

Love,

Georgia

Ditto to the QUEEN!!
smile

Well said JJ. Me too. If I have hurt anyone or anything like that, I apologise from deep in my heart. Some of the language has been very strong on some of the posts here and I am wondering how it got like that. I love a good discussion and a sharing of opinions, as do many of the others here and there's nothing wrong with that and I hope we can get back to civilised debate and sisterly support. It's possible to have differences of opinion without cattyness and belligerence. Yes. Lets start again, expressing our love, our opinions, our thoughts without all that.
Love to all
Clairey xxx

As always our Queen instills her greatness and her wisdom within us. I already apologized the other day for any part I may have had in hurt feelings and now I reinforce that apology, ten fold. I have always tried to look at life with a hopeful and happy heart, most things are funny to me, I can laugh at myself probably louder than I laugh at others. I hate being serious all the time and my friends would tell you I never am....surprise, surprise because I have been far too serious at times in here. By the way my recipe challenge is still open, come on ladies test me, think I've done pretty good so far. I have to say the figs nearly stumped me though...LOVE and HUGS to you all...

No wonder you are the Queen JJ....! Thanks for grabbing us by the shoulders and giving us a bit of a shake. I hope I've never offended anyone here, but if so, believe me it was unintentional - and I humbly apologize.

Now - back to the business of Boomering!!

Yes, please and thank you. I love the women on this site. I really do. Sorry if any of my words offended.

well now...this is more like it. Now...each of you send me $1000, plus two bags of Oreo's and we'll call it even, k?

What? too much?

JJ

Hows about 1000 oreos and $2.00?
(I'm a struggling writer, remember?)

What are oreos? People keep mentioning them on this site and I have never heard of them!

Any Oreo's I sent would have the white stuff in the middle licked clean. Still want em?

Oreo's are cookies. They are chocolate outside with vanilla creme inside and they also come double stuffed (extra creme) They are particularly delicious after being dunked in milk!

Dianne...you a sick...one sick puppy! ewww...

JJ

I guess I'll be sending Oreo's over to Ireland...

Claire,
They are a wonderful creme cookie with Choc waffer and vanilla cream in the middle . They are Umm... I don't eat them anymore. I can't have the Choc .

I have read all the post on this site and found it very interesting. Glad everyone is at peace with each other . Love to all friends here

Lv, Nancy

Oreo's are delicious and you can't eat just one. They are dunkable chocolate round cookies filled with white or chocolate filling. They have reverse Oreo's as well, vanilla cookies with the creme centers. Oh Lord, between this and the recipe section I am starving to death, Bring on the food.....

In an effort to calm the hunger pains, does anyone remember how the word 'oreo' was used as a racial term during the seventies??

Anyone know what Apple meant during that time??

smile

I didn't know the word "apple" was use in ANY way during the 70's. Anybody know?

JJ

a computer. Or was that the 80s?

Guess again girls. Remember the seventies was when minorities were finding their place in American culture.

Oreos and apples?? Not computers.

smile

And BTW the answer has nothing to do with the topic. But then I suppose technically apples and oreos don't either. ??
smile

Would you just puleasseeeeeeeeeeeeee give us the answer? I have a pot pie sitting here with my name on it but I can't eat till I know what the devil you are talking about. And if you say you don't know....I'm gonna get ya...

JJ

hyspanics (?is that the right word? I'm just an aussie)

Okay, Okay, Queen whiney butt,

Oreos were African Americans who were called that because they were thought to have abandoned their black culture to join the mainstream white culture. Thus they remained like "oreos," black on the outside and white on the inside.

Apples were American Indians who did the same thing and were said to be red on the outside and white on the inside.

I have no idea how that even entered my mind. I think it was all the oreo talk with no chocolate actually entering my mouth. Chocolate deprivation will do that to ya.
smile

[ November 15, 2004, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: smilinize ]

By the way, I've tasted oreos and let me tell you that our Tim Tams have them beaten hands down in the chocolate biscuit stakes...

I for one want to taste anything that boasts of being better than our beloved Oreo's, okay so hand them over and after I've eaten them ALL, I'll give my opinion, he he he!!! Just love free stuff...Anybody tried the new Oreo chips yet?

Tim Tams...hmmm....that sounds yummy. Diane, you're our world traveler...run on over to the Aussie place and bring us back some Tim's, would ya hon?

JJ

I'd send you some, but the chocolate would MELT en route

Hi all

Julie, I am working with a girl from Australia at the moment. I mentioned the Tim Tams to her and the look of longing that came over her face was indescribable! She says they are positively orgasmic! Her Mum will be sending some over to her soon so she has promised me I can try. Now I just have to find someone to let me try Oreos!!

Our speciality over here is Kimberleys. Even better are the chocolate covered kimberleys! Just yummmy!

All the best

Claire (just going to raid the biscuit barrel!)

Claire says...

quote:

---

She says they are positively orgasmic!

---

two cases please....

what?