Shooting in Tucson

This morning, Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was shot pointblank in the head with an automatic weapon. She is currently in surgery, but several other people were shot and/or killed.

Hi Yonuh,

Yes, I came online to post about this in the forum. I am quite shocked and pray for her family and those of the others who were shot.

What is especially scary to me is the news that she had been among those singled out by Sarah Palin's SarahPac...

Washington Post on Arizona Shooting

Reports are conflicting, but I am hoping and praying that she is still alive.

She came through surgery and is in critical condition. One of those killed was a 9 year old girl! I am sickened by this whole thing.

It is a terrible tragedy and I am sure we will be hearing about it for some time. This is the sort of thing the news media will grab on to and use as a means to demand changes. What changes, I am not yet sure.

We now know a Federal Judge was murdered and a 9 year old child, and that the shooter was a veteran. Some reports say they had met before in 2007.

I have been checking in with the Washington Post periodically. They seem to have more news than the Tucson newspaper website. Washington Post update on Shooting in Tucson

My mother and step-father live in Pima County, and ironically this morning Steve and I had been discussing - in theory - what it would be like to move there. (Hey, it's really cold in Northern Illinois in January and the snowbird concept seems to creep into our minds every winter.)

The local news station has more information that isn't on the newspaper website. Her office right now is being evacuated because of a 'suspicious package'. There were lots of people there holding a vigil.

So shocking and terrible; it's hard to even think about so many people dead and wounded -- all at an event that was supposed to be 'ordinary.' As far as I know, the shooter isn't a veteran; he tried to enlist in the Army but was rejected. Like everyone else, I hope the wounded recover and my heart goes out to the famlies of the deceased.

yonuh,
I'm sorry. I didn't see that you had started this subject here.
I just put it in Current Affairs. I was gone away yesterday and am
right now going through the threads to see what's what. If I had seen this thread before I posted, I would not have divided
the subject matter. I find this shooting so heartbreaking.
To think HOW another human could shoot their fellow beings in the head [or anywhere for that matter] makes me sick to my stomach.
Why do people get so cold hearted? Where are their feelings of
sympathy and gentleness and kindness?

The shooter was mentally unbalanced from what I've seen, but still, he definitely targeted Gabby. The list of those who died has been released: one 9 year old girl, a 30 year old man who was one of Gabby's aides and the one who has been working with my partner and me on the problems we've been having with BofA, a federal judge, and 3 people in their 70s. It is truly tragic. Word this morning is that Gabby is still in critical condition and there are 3 others in serious condition.

Please remember the families and victims in your prayers.

Let's pray daily for this beautiful country and all its citizens.
The whole idea of people's lives being crushed by such garbage,
is almost more than the senses can take in. Evil has got to stop.

Peace is a fairly common prayer of mine these days. I'm praying for peace in the hearts of people who seem to carry tremendous hatred within.

And I'm praying for comfort for all those families and friends who were wounded or murdered. The fact that this happened in a food store parking lot has really touched home with me. How many of us food shop on Saturdays? Honestly, one never knows...

God bless the USA.

Dotsie,
That thought of food shopping really hits close to home. We have
to do that and at any given time, we could be facing a similar
situation. And nobody knows how they'd react to such a thing until they're in the midst of it. I pray for peace, peace, peace.
Prayers and blessings going out to those in Tucson, fighting for
their lives and those dealing with loss.

I stay away from all political gatherings. I have seen too much violence when these people connect anywhere in the country.

Good point, Dotsie. We might choose to avoid attending pubic functions, but it is hard to avoid the daily errands we all run - to the grocery, post office, bank or schools.

And, I think you are wise to pray for peace. We need more of that going on.

I stand corrected that the he shooter is a veteran. I also read a correction on that statement -- these sorts of errors happen when the news media scramble on a big story... Sorry for passing on bad info.

This might have all been avoided if this over confident congresswoman would have accepted the security offered by local sheriff's police but she said NO! This even after she had been threateaned for weeks before the terrible murdering rampage of this demented man. Letters he wrote to her have been found and he had been making calls to her office and yet she refused security and this naive foolishness on her part left the door wide open for any deranged person to get close to her. She paid a very high price she didn't deserve for one man's insanity and so did all who ventured near her that terrible day...

NO ONE has the right to try to kill another person. This young man had been deemed mentally ill years earlier, and had been taken out of school five times for his insane behavior by police, yet all he got was a slap on the wrists and was sent home. He was a bomb ready to go off and apparently NO ONE gave a dam even though many of his fellow students were afraid of him, and one brave teacher tried and tried to forwarn someone he was a NUT! The shrine in his backyard of Hitlers, and other Communist parapenalia should have triggered his own parents attention WHAT ABOUT his parents? NO one has mentioned them at all except to say they tried to block entrance bvy the FBI by blockading the doors. Neighbors have said the father was strange too, and what do you want to bet it will eventually surface that the mother is a victim of mental and other domestic violence?? WHY? Because I do not believe this 22 year old man was a weirdo/psycho in school and other places and perfectly sane at home. Those parents had to be aware!!!

For anyonbe to try and make this a political issue is ridiculous, and to try and blame any one person or organization does nothing but take advantage for ones own personal beliefs! They are now passing a bill that the distance between a politician and his/her followers must be 300 feet, no closer. There are other NUTS running around out there so everyone best be cautious and take threats they receive seriously.

Chatty, I don't know where you found this information, but it isn't true.

The local Sheriff's office did not offer protection to Gabby; there were not several threats but one or two. Her office was vandalized right after she voted for the health care bill last March.

He did not write letters or call her office. He attended one of her 'Congress on Your Corner' meetings 3 years ago and she sent a letter to him thanking him for attending. He had written some weird things on an envelope found in a safe at the family home.

The only thing found in the back yard, supposedly, was a weird shrine holding a replica miniature skull, some candles, and other stuff.

His parents did not barricade themselves against the FBI; there was a large piece of wood put up to try to keep out the media.

The bill that was passed in the Arizona legislature today is to prevent anyone from picketing a funeral; Fred Phelps and his 'church' are planning on being here at each of the funerals. The law now says that any picketing/protesting must be 300 feet from the property line of any place holding a funeral or burial for one hour before, during, and one hour after the funeral or burial.

I agree incidents like this shouldn't be made a political issue, but it is. Hopefully, regardless of Loughner's motivation, the political climate will become more civil and all this gun imagery will go away.

Thanks Yonuh for making ALL the corrections to the information Chatty had heard. I also don't know where she got her misinformation, but I suppose if she heard it, others have as well.

Since we live unfortunately in a time when there is such polarization among our fellow Americans, it is hugely important that you took the time to set the record straight.

I did read in the Christian Science Monitor that Peter King (R-New York) will introduce a bill forbidding anyone with a gun closer than 1,000 feet to certain legislators.

I got my information direct from a deputy in the Sheriff's office as well as the local newspaper and a close girlfriend of Gabbys we both know thru ASPCA (Animal) work in Nevada and Arizona. Some info is not released and the news media is making some up as they go along it seems. Where does your information come from, you seem so sure of it!!!! It is so sad when there is so much crap passing as truth, who knows for sure anything except she was shot, many were, and Gabby and others are lucky to be alive and doing better. Thank God for that! I stand by the fact that she needed to have security...Thanks for the corrections if in fact you know more than I have been told.

My info came from people directly involved, including staffers in Gabby's office.

Well then my friend between the two of us we probably have over half of it right anyhow. I just wish I "knew nothing about it," because it "DID NOT HAPPEN," and I bet you feel the same way too!!

Yes, chatty, the whole city is in shock. But at least we can help the families by making sure the funerals and memorials for the dead are not disrupted by outside organizations. So many people have volunteered because otherwise they would just feel helpless.

Although an unbalanced man did the shooting it was politically driven. She is a congresswoman. He'd gone to one of her meetings before and she sent him a letter thanking him for attending. She was against whatever was in his head and he acted upon that. I don't think they will find him 'insane' but I do think they will find him mentally ill.
I disagree that this was not politically driven and that if this woman had protection this would not have happened. President Regan had secret service all around him and was still attacked. When someone wants to do someone harm they will find a way. This man came to gundown a political figure and take out as many of her supporters as possible.
Perhaps this should be a wakeup call to end the retirec that promotes hate and insightment of negative behaviors from those who are and are not balanced. There seems to no longer be any forethought before speaking one's mind. There doesn't seem to be research for facts before putting out info. And for those who present the facts seem to get rebuked by those who may be proved wrong in their summation of going ons.
I'm so glad the congresswoman is still alive and God willing will pull through her ordeal and be whole again. The travisty is that anyone was shot and killed because of their beliefs. I listened to Sarah Palin's comments about the map with targets on them and how polite she's suddenly become. Perhaps if she'd been this polite from the beginning as well as other politicians on both sides, the atmosphere in this nation would be less stressful and less violent. It was refreshing to hear FOX TV's producer tell his reporters to tone down the retoric and stick to the facts and to use intelligence in their reporting...finally, someone taking responsibility for what is put out to the public. Politicians and citizens need to stop using hate language and threats of violence to make their voices heard. I understand everyone is passionate about their beliefs, but that doesn't mean we have to be hateful in how we respond to those we disagree with.

Well said, Dee. Whether this man acted because of what he heard may never be known. He is mentally unbalanced and evidently has been for some time. I don't believe he can plead insanity because there is evidence he planned this attack. The requirements for an insanity plea have, I believe, been tightened to only include those acts where the person acted on impulse and could not differentiate between right and wrong. I don't think the shooter fits that description. Just my opinion, of course.

I know that both sides have used violence-laced rhetoric, but some have at least apologized for their words; most haven't, and I find that unconscionable. These are the people who will never admit they may have been wrong, under any circumstances. Please, all of us are wrong some times; a decent human being would admit it.

Has anyone spoken of the 16 bystanders who were shot? I haven't heard or seen any of their names or if they are okay or still in hospital or what? They were victims too and should be thought of and prayed for.

The political atmosphere in the country today is dangerous but it has always been in the past as well but with the internet, 24 hour TV and talk radio, we see/hear much more of the news. Before now it was only nightly news and newspapers caring anything. But with whats available now it makes for more people watching, reading and listening thus becoming involved and emotional about what is going on on both sides of the political coin. At a few rallies I atended I heard so many, women especially, saying this and the last campaign are the first ones they have taken any interest in except to vote. I suppose that is good and bad in some ways. What kind of an example is given to our young children with the open pointing of fingers and meanspiritedness??? And guess what, it will never be any different either, because man/woman do not learn from their mistakes. The past, and today proves that loud and clear...

There are still six in the hospital, Chatty, Gabby is still in critical condition but has been moving and making purposeful movements, good signs that the brain is working well for movement. She has made it past the 72 hour mark with no increase in brain swelling and no infection. Two people are in serious condition, and three people are in fair condition.

CNN has covered who was shot, posted their photos and included them in their coverage. It's not only been about Gabby.

As I type this they are showing everyone's photos so it's not that the others have been forgotten. The main person who was meant to be murdered is still alive and she's the state's congresswoman so naturally they are going to focus on her...but, as I've been watching TV for the past 4 days I can say that the others have not been ignored at all.

No, they haven't been forgotten. They are mentioned often in local media and in the daily briefings from the hospital.

I just watched the memorial from the University of Arizona campus. So many people there in the basketball arena plus another crowd that overflowed the football stadium. In total there were upwards of 40,000 people attending the memorial. It was broadcast live and also live streamed over the internet. It was sad but uplifting at the same time.

Thanks for the update Dee and Yonuh. I haven't had time to watch TV much but when I have I missed the naming of the others who were shot I guess. I've been wondering who they were and how they were doing.

I agree with you, Dee. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts with all of us. Here's to civility!

To Christina Green:
Sleep newest Angel of heaven. Rest in the arms of Jesus. Our loss is heaven's gain but you did not depart without leaving your footprints on our heart. We now know of the dreams for the life you will never have and your child-like optimism for a better democracy shame those of us who needed a lesson in civility. I keep thinking of Isiah 11:6....'and a little child shall lead them.' You have touched this country's conscience with your hope for a better world in which to live, in a country that has become far too angry with itself. We have stopped listening. We have stopped being considerate. We think only of ourselves. Your silenced voice has been heard throughout the world and this nation. Let us speak gently to one another the way you would want us to, while mending the wounds we have created with words of criticism, hatred and ignorance. God bless you, dearest Christina...and all those who joined you and may you continue to touch our hearts and be a reminder that with every life there is hope and with every death there is direction. Sleep well littlest Angel.

Oh Dee, you expressed this beautifully.
Hopefully this horrific shooting will finally change the gun laws forever.

This from the editorial page in today's Arizona Daily Star:

Be still. Be still and be thankful for what you have.

And when you hear yourself saying "Yes, but . . . " - be still.

Be still and be thankful for what we have.

Instead of looking for what's missing, or finding the shortcomings in another person's actions or words, think of the good.

So when the caller rings up, as one did Thursday morning, and demands to know why President Obama did not identify by name the two men who tackled the gunman on Saturday, and how could he not do that and why did one person get to sit in the front row at the memorial service but others were several rows back, and he should have said this or that - we have but a request:

Be still. Be thankful for what you have.

Give each other the benefit of the doubt.

Everyone in Tucson, and those around the country and the world, has been touched by the horrific shootings in some way. We are all, each of us, hurting.

The urge to criticize, to find fault and concentrate on what one thinks is missing might be a natural human response. But we should stop ourselves. It only adds to the angst and the sorrow that people feel. It drags us down when we need to be supporting one another.

There is no need to argue over who acted with greater heroism: the two men - identified as Roger Salzgeber and Bill D. Badger - who wrestled the gunman to the ground; or the woman, Patricia Maisch, who got the ammunition magazine away from the shooter; or the intern, Daniel Hernandez Jr., who put pressure on Rep. Gabby Giffords' head wound and held her up so she wouldn't suffocate on her own blood.

Each one is a hero. Recognizing one does not diminish the others. It is futile to argue, as some people have started to do, that one is more important than another.

Instead of concentrating on how we think someone should have been honored or how someone else should have acted, please extend empathy. Maybe there is a reason we don't know. Coming back to "yes, but . . . " does not change what has happened, and it does not add to the healing that must begin.

Instead of criticizing, find something good to say. Instead of diminishing the heroism of one, celebrate the bravery of all. Instead of finding fault, find the positive.

Find the way ahead.

Be still. And be thankful for what you have.

Yonuh...extremely wise words.

I wonder if this is not an issue relating to the state of our mental health services and our understanding of severe mental illness rather than something to be put in the political arena?

Thanks for sharing the editorial from the Tucson paper, Yonuh. Very thought-provoking - and so true. As a country we need to try to end our polarization. And just doing this -- ceasing with the "yes buts..." and instead finding something good to say -- IF we could all start to do it, would go a long way toward ending the great divide we're experiencing in this country.

I just heard Diane Sawyer say, "Gabby opened her eyes...now let's open ours." Just wanted to share that.
Anne. I love what you said...let's hope.