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#114218 - 04/10/07 06:59 PM
Ageing marriages
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Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 217
Loc: Moscow
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Our kids are grown. We spent our entire married life working, working, working, and taking care of the family. Cooking working, cleaning working, household chores working, taking care of kids working. There has never been time for "us". But now there is.
And now after more than 20 years of marriage there seems not to be an "us". Though it was never evident before--as though anyone had time to notice--we do not really have developed a one-on-one relationship, my husband and I. And I am very unhappy.
What is it about men that they don't understand that just because you married someone and spent half a lifetime of daily chores together, it's the intimate connection between the two of us that really matters? They figure that if they bank the paycheck and come home for dinner and mow the yard that everything is just honkey-dorey. It's not.
After 20+ years I want to be me now, I want to be *us* now, I want our turn and he just doesn't get it. Never never has he told me that I'm beautiful or special or the love of his life. Never. I feel used and neglected an unappreciated. I know he loves me but it's like the comfortable attachment to a pair of well worn slippers in your pajamas in front of the TV. I am no one's well worn slipper.
Not feeling much like ditching a long term marriage for....what? And yet always thinking that being a warm slipper is not the ultimate culmination of a lifetime of aspiration and dreams and hard work. I lived over 50 years for this???
Ladies, what say ye?
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#114219 - 04/10/07 07:57 PM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: mrs_madness]
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Member
Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 4136
Loc: American living in Europe
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Oh boy this is a tough one. I assume you have said all this to your husband. No? And he still hasn't changed? Some men have to get a shaking, to wake them up and make them realize what they have in their spouse. All I know is that a good marriage doesn't usually happen by itself. You have to work at that just like at everything else. Have you tried to start the romance yourself? What do you do on your free days? How about a ride in the country with a surprise picnic, or just do a touristy sightseeing thing. Anything…just get out…and pretend you are young lovers. Sometimes pretending can develop into the real thing. Kiss your man in the middle of Moscow, and see how he reacts. Hah! That might just shake him out of his doldrums. Then go to a lingerie shop and let him pick out what you should wear that night. Believe me…our marriage has had a crisis time and time again, but as long as you feel love is there, it's worth fighting for. And You can rekindle the love; but maybe you have to take the reins. Quote:
From a Daily OM, I quote:
There is no secret recipe for happiness and contentment. The individuals who move through life joyously have not necessarily been blessed with lives of abundance, love, success, and prosperity. Such people have, however, been blessed with the ability to take the circumstances they've been handed and make them into something great. Our individual realities are colored by perception-delight and despair come from within rather than without. Situations we regard as fortuitous please us while situations we judge inauspicious cause us no end of grief. Yet if we can look at all we have accomplished without dwelling on our perceived misfortune and make each new circumstance our own, the world as a whole becomes a brighter place. A simple shift in attitude can help us recognize and unearth the hidden potential for personal and outer world fulfillment in every event, every relationship, every duty, and every setback.
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#114220 - 04/10/07 08:25 PM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: Edelweiss]
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Member
Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 201
Loc: Ozarks
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Grab the old photo albums, your beverage of choice, turn off the TV - on some days gone by music from your dating & young married life and take a cruise back throuh your lives in pictures. Maybe after a refresher course in all you've been through - the wonderful times etc some old feelings and laughter will come back & inspire a venture back to do something you use to do before mid life dull droms took over. My husband & I went for a drive last fall in search of the resort we stayed at on our honeymoon at the lake. We found it and though it was now apartments. It really stired up a day of reminising & we realized we kinda liked our shared memories as well as our new found "comfortable" love.
_________________________
Q~Ball aka Q~Ball101
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#114221 - 04/10/07 10:57 PM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: Q_ball]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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WOW, these are all great suggestions! I couldn't add much more except, do something surprising, entirely out of character for you, at least what he perceives as character for you....:) Go skinny dipping in front of him or buy a massager and start with his feet and work your way up. Is he worth the effort?
Buy yourself flowers and have them delivered with an anonymous (sp?) note?
Parade around the house revealing more than you would ordinarily....slip some V in his morning coffee..:)
_________________________
Aarikja Ann
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#114222 - 04/11/07 04:40 AM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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nice quote hannilore
If you said this to him and hes aware of it i would lead by example talk to him the way you would want to talk if you had that intimacie in your life...compliment him, search back throw your memorie for good recent or long gone times that showed him at his best...tell him hows hes been for the last 20 yrs has been exilent in all respects (keep esteem in tact) but now change is needed becouse the situasion has changed and its time to take advantige of it...after a few weeks then tell him how you been treating him is how you like to be treated..then hes got an idea of what thse new changies are about and also how to do them...
i need emotional intimacie in my relashionships or they dont work for me..that means that a times i gotta be a bit vulrible, admite things i dont want to and look at thing in a new light..or just from my partners view solie but its important enough for me i am willing to do it all and whatever else it takes for that intimacie.
I like an easie feeling around the house within me and my partner so tough honest but loving talks are necassarie, they know everie thing relivent that fears me at this time and i them... apart from the easie loving feeling thats an aim for both of us to achive....i like a 5 or ten minuet cheek in at the end of the day. These talks help us keep abreast of things and each other but gives a nice end to the day to have 5 or ten miniets true pure connection...Some days its longer but not an aim becouse it be excousting and maybee even suficating to have that everie day, kinda lose sence of one self if it was like that everie day, well for me...
hope that helps. communicate and lead by example. Rember its worth it if theirs love and you want fullfilment from him...much better him than someone else which is sadlie the choice some people make...Dose he have hobbies could you take an intrest or do one of them with him?..
_________________________
"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#114223 - 04/11/07 04:56 AM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: Q_ball]
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Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 217
Loc: Moscow
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Quote:
Grab the old photo albums, your beverage of choice, turn off the TV - on some days gone by music from your dating & young married life and take a cruise back throuh your lives in pictures. Maybe after a refresher course in all you've been through - the wonderful times etc some old feelings and laughter will come back & inspire a venture back to do something you use to do before mid life dull droms took over. My husband & I went for a drive last fall in search of the resort we stayed at on our honeymoon at the lake. We found it and though it was now apartments. It really stired up a day of reminising & we realized we kinda liked our shared memories as well as our new found "comfortable" love.
We don't have any old photo albums and we never had a date or a honeymoon. We got married on a Friday and went back to work the following Monday. He had 2 children and I had one. We started the marriage with 3 kids and had the 4th two years later. We have never been alone together.
I have adorable lingerie. Like a chicken going to roost, he turns off the lights and goes to bed ever night at exactly 10PM. Cute undies are not helping and I can hardly parade around the house in some French maid costume, our 18 year old son lives here.
My husband works 6 days a week. Every Saturday morning at 8AM he gets up, takes a shower, and goes for breakfast with the aged geezers he works with from 8 to 5 Monday through Friday. We have Sunday morning.
I have talked to him, but he just doesn't get it. Then I get so frustrated and unhappy that I quit talking to him. That doesn't help either. Sometimes I feel like I wasted half my life in a marriage that's going to dribble away, now that it's too late to do it over again.
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#114224 - 04/11/07 06:13 AM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: mrs_madness]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Sounds like he's pretty set in his ways. I wonder if he likes it that way or could he be thinking similar thoughts?
Without sounding accusing or demanding or needy, could you approach the topic with him? Maybe ask him where he sees your relationship 3 yrs. from now?
My husband told me men start to lose their sexual desire in their 50's or at least they aren't as interested as when they were in their 30's or 40's. He said it is frightening to a man who has always been virile.
Some men are a lot harder to spur into activity than others. Would it help to see about herbs or vitamins or maybe a prescription that would boost his androgens?
Is there some way to touch his very heart? What kinds of things seem to touch him besides coffee with his cronies?? There's got to be a way. I hate to see you so unhappy in your relationship.
_________________________
Aarikja Ann
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#114226 - 04/11/07 02:20 PM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: Edelweiss]
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Queen of Shoes
Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 6123
Loc: Arizona
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It's not that they don't get it...it's that they don't want to get it sometimes until the only thing they get is you are on your way out the door. Then suddenly, they get it if they still care.
This is why I believe women need to form a social circle outside the marriage so they don't depend on the man for their enjoyment.
I did the "walk in front of him in the nude" and the only reaction I received was..."where are your clothes, girl?"
_________________________
If it doesn't feel good, don't do it twice. www.eadv.netBoomer Queen of Shoes
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#114227 - 04/11/07 06:58 PM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: Dianne]
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member
Registered: 07/06/06
Posts: 1521
Loc: Alabama
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This is coming from a long-time single woman...but I think we see things very differently than men do...on one hand...I can see that he may get his reassurance from the comfort of the relationship just the way it is...when the rest of the world falls apart...he knows you're there...and what feels better than your favorite pair of slippers (to borrow your analogy) on a cold winter's night...who'd want to come home and slip into a pair of brand new tight fitting high-heels...okay, Dianne would...LOL...but seriously...from his perspective...you may have the perfect marriage...
Sounds like you are wanting to know him better...and wanting him to know you better...maybe you can try focusing on the things about him that you really like...make a list...think about what attracted you to him in the first place...what I know is that you can't change him with your actions...
_________________________
Jane Carroll
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#114228 - 04/11/07 08:36 PM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: Jane_Carroll]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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id back that sentiment up that jane made about changing him with your actions, the best you may get to do is to set an example for him to follow...
I am a little confused now,after reading the rest of the posts. Reading your first post you spoke of intimacie being what you want is this emotional knowing ie closeness or sex (the other way people talk about sex without using the word sex!)????
i am sure theirs a diffrence going about getting either or trying to generate more of either? lol and their might be some answeres to one or the other depending on how its understood lol.
QUESTION do you have a clear idea of what you want, can you picture it in a day to day manner and how that would work out dailie between yourselfs, how youd behave towards each other, what you say and do that type of thing (assuming its emotional)....
Maybee cultivating more girlefrends would help you get some emotional fullfilment without having the whole weight of your emotional happiness on hubbies shoulders, if thats what your doing?
i think in this life we make ourselfs happie with self-love and then we get to share that with out partners, so thei'r not reliade upon to make us happie all the time when we aint? I dont know you or know if this is the case and just throwing out ideas.
your last sentences said you tried talking to him but he dont get it and then you withdraw....i dont know how manie times you tried talking but some things are worth repeating and repeating etc, After all been excousted then i think ok stay and find some other safe outlet for emotonal validasion and except hubbie as how he is or change myself..lastlie change the situasion ie end the marrige if it was necasariy and everiething else been excostade.
Is he happie and emotionalie fullfilled in the relashionship you have now, together?
have you wasted your life in a marrige, thats been happie enough so far, even if worse came to worse and their was an end to it soon. Or have you had 20 so yrs of a good marrige but unfortinuitlie it aint so happie now at this minuete. The attitude thing can be so important about how one views the past as it has a big impact on whats happening today..
_________________________
"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#114229 - 04/11/07 10:10 PM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: Jane_Carroll]
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Writer
Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 20267
Loc: Nevada
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Mrs Maddness,
Its true, our men really do treat us the way we allow them to treat us...
I would calm myself down and take the wonderful advice above, you DO catch more bees with honey, than vinegar. Be outrageous, be sexy in fun ways, and unless he is brain dead (a possibility) he will respond....
I've lost two good men to God in my lifetime and the third I divorced but he refuses to leave me alone, he says he loves me and always will and no women has ever stirred such feelings in him. DAH!!! Now remember I divorced him because we never had sex, he never acted like I was that special. I felt betrayed and like a hag. I became a nag and it just got worse....
Finally, I washed my hands of him and have never looked back, and when I do, there he is, lurking!
OH, hes a nice enough guy (Dianne met him) but not my cup of tea. I can do without the sex, but never the romance...
My other two husbands were always telling me how gorgeous or cute I was and I savored every minute. Hell, we deserve that much....
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#114232 - 04/13/07 09:11 AM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: ]
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Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 217
Loc: Moscow
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To be perfectly honest, I'm strongly considering leaving the marriage. Of course I'm terrified of making that leap and looking back on it in a year or two and thinking it was the biggest mistake of my life. Some mistakes, once made, cannot be undone yeah?
And of course a huge issue is that (1) I'm in Russia so it's a little more complex than just getting in the car and driving down the road and (2) I have nowhere to go. But I don't want to let the fear of the unknown keep me stuck in what is looking like, a more and more empty marriage.
I dunno, I'm thinking thinking thinking. And I'm reading your replies.
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#114234 - 04/14/07 12:04 AM
Re: Ageing marriages
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Member
Registered: 09/26/04
Posts: 3910
Loc: Alabama
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Msmadness, I am sorry you are going through this and just wanted to post a few ideas, also. Saying you really have no where to go if you left him, being in Russia and all, I feel for you.
Maybe you need to look deep inside yourself and ask the following Questions:
1.Is it just too much trouble to change him, or ask him to be more of what you want in a husband?
2.Is the change expected of him only or do you need to make some of your own?
3.If he changes, do you still want him or are you really wanting out of the marriage period? Have you fallen out of Love, so to speak?
Do you have 'couple friends' that you associate with? Maybe having a couple over or going out with them might stir up a little bit of fun and excitement. Entertain, go to a movie,etc. Maybe even vacation with another couple like a cruise. Getting out of the doldrums of marriage could be the key. A jumpstart to phase 2 if you like.
_________________________
chick
~ Here is the test to find whether your mission on Earth is finished: if you're alive, it isn't ~
~ Prayer is the most we can do for another human being ~
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#114235 - 04/14/07 01:04 AM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: chickadee]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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There aren't that many "good" men out there it seems so if the grass is looking greener on the other side, its probably just an illusion.
I've been married 4 times, widowed once and I can tell you, starting over again each time as a newlywed, getting to know each other and learn each other's habits etc. ain't all its cracked up to be.
Unless he's just a complete clod, he may be worth working on. Have him grow facial hair or change his mode of dress or whatever would interest you.
All the above suggestions seem very good. I don't mean to sound discouraging, but the more you admire and love yourself the better he will look to you, maybe, and all those other fish in the sea are starting to look like clones to me.
_________________________
Aarikja Ann
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#114236 - 04/27/07 01:17 AM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: Jane_Carroll]
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Member
Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 2798
Loc: NM, transplant from NJ
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Sorry for just jumping in here but...
Have you ever read the book "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman? It's a wonderful book! DH and I both read it. No, we don't always speak in one another's "love language", but we are both educated now!
We are married 10 1/2 years...no children (not by choice). It's ALWAYS US! Yep, we get on one another nerves. I want his attention, but I know I irritate him. We both have been married twice before this (last and final) time, so we really have had some past issues to get over . And we still do.
May I suggest getting that book, and read some excerpts aloud to him. Then, leave it somewhere where he can read it himself.
DH left me a note in a section zooming in on one issue he NEEDED me to read....regarding LOOKING AT HIM when he speaks to me! Got the point!
My prayer is that you can both become the "one flesh" (once more) that was said in your vows.
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#114237 - 06/14/07 01:53 AM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: Edelweiss]
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Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 37
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I know how you are feeling. I have been married for over 30 years and now feel so alone. My kids are grown and hubby has no clue about me or what I am about. He is satisfied to just get old and do what he has been doing. He didn't grow in this relationship at all. Women are so much smarter than men. Who needs that. Keep trucking and growing and don't give up there is so much out there for women like us.
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#114238 - 06/14/07 03:25 AM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: turtle]
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Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3675
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
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It's a mistake to think you can change someone else.
Better to live life joyfully and fruitfully but always leave door open for him to join you. And vice versa you must be open to his world...if parts of his world is positive also.
Example: I belong to a cycling internet forum where there are predominantly men. It's just reality...even in face-to-face co-ed cycling groups, men always outnumber women.
Quite a number of the men complain their wives don't even want them to cycle any or much at all. My first thought is: he may be shirking household/child care responsibilities or she just has not found a hobby / interest for herself outside of them as a couple or they don't share 1 interest together as a couple.
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#114239 - 06/15/07 04:16 AM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: Jane_Carroll]
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Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 37
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The guy needs to be dumped and you need a young lover.
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#114240 - 06/15/07 01:48 PM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: turtle]
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Member
Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 1550
Loc: Colorado
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I was going to suggest the Five Love Languages as Dianne did. I just finished reading it for the 2nd time - it is VERY insightful.
The person who wrote the book helped several dead marriages.
Being a newly divorced gal myself, I would advise you to REALLY think about it. The grass IS greener, but the water bill IS higher. There are alot of creeps out there....I would give your marriage every chance there is!
danita
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#114241 - 06/15/07 02:57 PM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: Danita]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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I'm sorry you are feeling so low, Mrs. Madness! Our sexual beings are so important. And it's important that we satisfy ourselves (by ourselves, if we must), just to keep the juices flowing.
It sounds like you both made some bargains at the beginning of the marriage, even if they were unspoken. By not having a honeymoon, it seems that you agreed that your needs were not important, that bringing home a paycheck and mowing the lawn were things that you expected. I would assume, although you don't say, that your part of the bargain was to raise the children and keep the house.
In my experience (and I've been divorced three times and now married to a wonderful man) and training (I'm a coach), the most important part of any relationship is you. You need to really define who you are, what you want, and what you need. You need to acknowledge the agreements that you have made -- either consciously or unconsciously. Dotsie's suggestion of taking time for yourself is a good one.
Once you have done that, you'll know the needs that you can get met outside your marriage and what you desire in it. Orchid's suggestion of really fully living your own life is also good.
It's amazing what can happen when you start making changes on yourself. Your husband may take notice and start paying attention. Or not. In the latter case, then you can start having discussions with him about what you need and want.
These are all my opinions. I hope they are helpful, but feel free to toss them on the rubbish heap if they don't make sense to you! :-))
_________________________
Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#114242 - 07/13/07 03:19 AM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: Jane_Carroll]
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Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 37
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My husband took his co-worker to lunch and movies several times bought her gifts and calls her up and bought her child gifts, she is a single mom. He went to see her new house and writes her very "sweet e-mails. Should I be worried? We have been married over 30 years the co-worker is 32 and he says he is her mentor and she is a very good friend and they pray the bible together. Am I being stupid to be suspicious? Turtle
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#114243 - 07/13/07 08:11 PM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: turtle]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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Worry.
_________________________
Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#114244 - 07/13/07 10:27 PM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: Casey]
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Member
Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 4434
Loc: Minneapolis Minnesota
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#114246 - 07/13/07 11:27 PM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: Jane_Carroll]
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Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 1341
Loc: Sweden
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It´s never too late, mrs. madness. I divorced my husband of 32yrs and 5 children when I was about 53yrs old. I am not saying it was easy..it was a very tough time for me a long while afterwards. But today at almost 60, I am living in a pleasant 1 1/2 bedroom apartment (ok, we are 3-4 people/kids living it and it does get tight,but so what?). The apartment is all mine anyway. And I am living with a man much younger than I am. And life is good..with it´s ups and downs, of course. I have found myself..most of the time.. I do loose myself now and again. My 17 yr old son lives with us and we have a relationship that I don´t think we could ever have had if I was still married. I am not advocating divorce in any way. The absolute best is aging together I am sure, if you can. But your possiblilites aren´t over at 50 or more..not by any means..there is SO MUCH to be experienced..both old and new! I truely hope that you can do this with your husband, but if you find that you can´t..it´s ok too. 
_________________________
"some sacred place.."
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#114247 - 07/14/07 01:51 PM
Empty words...
[Re: Jane_Carroll]
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Member
Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 10032
Loc: New York State
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Mrs. Madness, Just because hubby doesn't tell you he loves you, or that you're the most beautiful woman ever, or he can't live without you, isn't necessarily a sign that he doesn't feel that way. My first husband wrote me the most wonderful card two weeks before he ran off with his girlfriend. We'd been married 14 years. He kissed me. He bought me nice things. He worked. He was attentive. My second husband, we've been married 20 + years, is very conservative and says little. He'd never gush or say pretty stuff or be affectionate. But he doesn't run around, either. I can count on him. I trust him. He may be quiet but he's a good man! Think this through. The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. The next guy might be ten times worse. Good men are few and far between. Prayers and blessings, bonnierose 
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#114250 - 07/15/07 01:27 PM
If he doesn't do...
[Re: jawjaw]
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Member
Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 10032
Loc: New York State
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Mrs. Madness, I just think if your husband doesn't cheat on you, doesn't hang out at the bars all hours of the day and night, and doesn't abuse you physically or mentally...there's hope to turn around whatever is wrong. Some guys cannot express their feelings. Some say things that have absolutely NO substance. Their words are like cotton candy; if you could bite into them, they'd leave a sweet taste but be worthless. Sometimes a spiritual connection is far superior to sexual satisfaction. [This is just my opinion, of course.] I've known women whose husbands were after them to have sex almost nonstop. And they complained big time! Nothing is perfect. Decide what is important to you. And then focus on that! Prayers and blessings, bonnie rose P.S. I too am sorry you have to go through this. Life is short. We need to find happiness! 
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#114251 - 07/24/07 12:49 AM
Re: If he doesn't do...
[Re: jabber]
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Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 1341
Loc: Sweden
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mrsmadness...how are you doing??? Thinking of you...
_________________________
"some sacred place.."
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#114252 - 07/24/07 05:01 AM
Re: If he doesn't do...
[Re: humlan]
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Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 217
Loc: Moscow
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Meh. I'm ok. I've just been in kind of a funk lately. Mr. Madness and I not getting along so well....I feel so used and unappreciated. Maybe that is just the lot of wives and mothers. I mean, I work all day just like he does. How come I can't come in exhausted at the end of the day and sit down to watch TV while waiting for my dinner to appear? When was the last time he gave me a massage or rubbed my feet? Huh? When was the last time he told me I was an irresistibly beautiful bundle of sumptuous womanhood?  I've been ruefully reflecting on my life. I spent half a lifetime working and taking care of the family I loved and being the best mother and wife I knew how to be. Now here I am 30 years later, still look good, and I'm treated like the cleaning lady. I remember the promise of the future when the kids were little and how happy I was....and now in my 50's after all that work and caring and effort, I have nothing to show for it. Just an aging woman without hearth or home that no one gives a damn about. This was not how I expected my life to turn out. This is not what I had imagined for my future 20 years ago. This is not what I wanted. I was bright and pretty and loving--and everything I've done has added up to nothing. I'm really disappointed. Like everything else though I suppose I'll get over it. Aging is learning how to live with losses.
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#114254 - 07/24/07 10:05 AM
Re: If he doesn't do...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Writer
Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 20267
Loc: Nevada
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I belong to several LARGE groups of women and I would say that in these groups of women, NONE admit to being happy. If its not one problem its another. Each envys someone else. Anymore its not who has the happiest life, its who is willing to be happy with what cards they've been dealt.
Believe me, the grass is not always greener on the other side. Cultivate the seeds, plants (people) in your garden so they grow into what you desire them to be. If you spend all your time being miserable, envious and looking at other gardens, all you're going to grow are weeds. Don't we think men have the same feeling as they age...They see youth disappearing too, and know they are on the downside of life. How often do you rub his feet, or offer to give him a massage? You start it, but be sure he knows whats good for him is equally good for you. Even the good men need to be led by the nose most of the time, its just the way their made.
Edited by chatty lady (07/24/07 10:07 AM)
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#114257 - 07/24/07 06:42 PM
Re: If he doesn't do...
[Re: Anno]
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Member
Registered: 06/30/05
Posts: 383
Loc: Illinois
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Mrs. Madness, one thing us single gals have learned is that you can't expect a man to make you happy. You have to find happiness for yourself, within yourself. You have to find the activities, hobbies, education, etc that please you and fulfill you. In doing so you may find that he comes around-he may find you more interesting etc. If nothing else finding new activities will add new topics to discuss at the dinner table. Finding new things to do for you will help your self esteem and confidence which will also help your relationship with him.
Dotsie's right, now that kids are grown, replace that empty spot with things for you. Don't expect him to fill your void. You've worked hard...if he won't take a trip with you then get away by yourself somewhere and take time to get to know you. You may be surprised by what you learn about yourself.
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#114259 - 07/25/07 02:39 PM
Re: If he doesn't do...
[Re: ]
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Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
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I agree with those who said that you and your husband need to plan a get-a-way, just the two of you. Where would he enjoy going that would wake him up? If possible, find a place without a television. If money is an issue, see if you can borrow a friend or relative's cabin or home while they are away. House sit for someone. New surroundings, even for a weekend, can sometimes improve a relationship. Counceling would help if it's in your budget to do so. I think you have too many years invested to throw it all away. Think of the financial ramifications. I ran across a website that talks about depression in Russia. You sound a little depressed. Even if you aren't it tells of services for marriage counceling. Depression in Russia I hope you find happiness in whatever you decide to do.
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#114260 - 07/25/07 02:57 PM
Re: If he doesn't do...
[Re: Laurel]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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Mrs. Madness, there has been a lot of wisdom shared here already, but here's my thoughts.
Instead of looking for what your husband isn't doing, look for what he is doing and acknowledge that to him. Focus on the good -- just like you do with kids.
Has his behavior changed? Or has your view of his behavior changed? He might be thinking, this is how we have always lived -- what's the ruckus all about? My perception (which might be totally off the wall) is that culturally, many Russian men that I know wouldn't be caught dead doing "women's work." So, it might take some negotiating (or flat-out refusal) on your part to get him to take on chores. So, in the dinner instance, have the conversation and see what he is willing to do and then hold him to it. If he agrees to make dinner on Sunday and then doesn't, take yourself out to eat. Don't grumble and make dinner. It will take a while. You are asking him to change -- and we all resist change for the most part! LOL!
_________________________
Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#114261 - 07/27/07 11:42 AM
Re: If he doesn't do...
[Re: Casey]
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Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 217
Loc: Moscow
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Thanks for all your thoughts. Casey, we are both 100% American working overseas. My husband is NOT Russian (shudder, god forbid  ). A lot of our issues are definately caused by our current living conditions. Counseling/therapy of any kind is all but unheard of in Russia. So is English. Doesn't exist. The cultural milieu in Moscow is also undoubtedly a part of the issue. This is a pit of debauchery, moral vacancy, degeneration, and general gloom. You would not be surprised that our employment here comes with a lot of lucrative perks because this is definitely considered to be a hardship post. After 4 years I have come to despise Moscow. I really really hate this place. And yes, that probably figures into my discontent as well. But I think more the issue is that if we're going to live in these isolated foreign places, we need some better glue than what we've got holding us together. Did I say that his libido in our marriage has gone from stud to dud? Did I mention that we had a lot of problems last year when I found craploads of porn in his part of the computer? Did I mention that he even calls me ''mother''? I am not his mother! Nor do I appreciate the homespun handknitted implications of being a chicken soup kind of gal. I like to think that there is still plenty of fire left in my boiler, but he doesn't seem to see it. But you are right, I should try harder to appreciate the things that I have always liked about him. Bottom line is though, after all we've been through, I just want to be loved. And no, not like his mother!
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#114262 - 07/27/07 03:56 PM
Re: If he doesn't do...
[Re: mrs_madness]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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Mrs.Madness, you have a point -- if you are isolated in these places, it is necessary to have a true partner in your life. It's really too bad that counseling/therapy isn't available.
Have you read Relationship Rescue by Dr. Phil? It might give you some ideas. Dr. Phil can be a bit harsh, I think, but there's food for thought in the book that might help.
It sounds like there are some serious issues. I would definitely put a stop to being called mother! :-))
Sending good wishes...
_________________________
Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#114264 - 07/27/07 08:53 PM
Re: If he doesn't do...
[Re: Edelweiss]
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Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 217
Loc: Moscow
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Quote:
Attack him. Swing that bra over your head, and drive him nuts!!!!!
You mean the adorable new push-up excess Cleavage Plus I just bought from Victoria's Secret? 
There's enough silicone stuff in them thar cups to put a dent in a 2 by 4. It's cute though. I got the matching panties too.....
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#114265 - 07/28/07 01:16 AM
Re: If he doesn't do...
[Re: mrs_madness]
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member
Registered: 07/06/06
Posts: 1521
Loc: Alabama
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You go girl!
_________________________
Jane Carroll
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#114266 - 07/28/07 04:56 PM
Re: If he doesn't do...
[Re: mrs_madness]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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_________________________
Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#114268 - 07/29/07 07:19 AM
Re: If he doesn't do...
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member
Registered: 07/06/06
Posts: 1521
Loc: Alabama
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Duh...Dotsie...spill it! Of course we want to hear!
_________________________
Jane Carroll
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#114272 - 08/02/07 12:41 AM
Re: If he doesn't do...
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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what can i say, ....but too scared of those young ladies and their tape mesuress. honestlie and i don't scare easilie but this ones got me quaking a bit.
i have gone up a cup size, and that means that their getting harder to find cheeplie....maybee my attitude is wrong and i should stop looking for the cheep bargain that will just do the job....maybee treat this type of shoping as i would as if i was looking for a nice top....
you write on i just hush and read for a bit on this topic. #
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#114273 - 08/02/07 07:46 PM
Re: If he doesn't do...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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One of my colleagues sells "Oprah's Bra" and in a private fitting she puts two little stars you know where on your shirt while you have on your own bra on. Then you put on the new one, put your shirt back on and lo and behold, you are 3-4 inches higher! LOL!!!!
_________________________
Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#114274 - 08/03/07 06:22 AM
Re: If he doesn't do...
[Re: Casey]
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Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 44
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I feel your pain, Sweetie! I went out with the girls last night and this topic, in general came up... men just don't get it/us. They tend to become complacent once they know they've "got us". Then life hits and some of them become robots.
Find your own happiness. What do you enjoy? Take time for yourself, pamper yourself.
Maybe he will notice the "glow" about you.
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#114276 - 08/03/07 01:54 PM
Re: If he doesn't do...
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Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
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Dotsie, That's so funny. I'm surprised she quit working for Victoria Secret if she likes their product so much. So the secrets in the padding, huh? 
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#114278 - 08/03/07 05:45 PM
Re: If he doesn't do...
[Re: Edelweiss]
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Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 44
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Dotsie, that is really funny!
Last year on vacation, I was miserable. I had an underwire stabbing me. Remembering the Oprah show about how most women don't wear the correct size, I insisted my husband take me to a Macy's to be fitted. Sure enough, I was way off! That's how I spell relief!
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#114279 - 08/03/07 08:43 PM
Re: If he doesn't do...
[Re: ShesPassionate]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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I have a love/hate relationship with the Oprah bra. It does make me look good and THINNER :-)), but I feel like they are just stacked there on shelves. Frustrates the heck out of my husband -- he can't feel anything! Calls them armor plated...:-)))
_________________________
Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#114280 - 08/04/07 01:59 PM
Re: If he doesn't do...
[Re: Casey]
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Member
Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 1550
Loc: Colorado
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Where does one go to find an "Oprah bra"?
I just can't seem to find the right bra that doesn't give me "back fat". argh.
About padded bras. I'm a "D" cup. I think I was pretty shocked the first time I went bra shopping and stumbled upon heavily padded bras (I thought they should be labeled "false advertising". sorry ladies) lol
Any who, I've always wore thin under wire bras until week after week I saw a lady stand up in my networking group with her headlights FULL ON. (if you know what I mean).
We have a mixed group of men and women - when I'm talking, I don't want people to be noticing my nipples - I transitioned to a padded bra to help "dim my lights".
LOL
that's' my bra input, and I'm sticking to it.
danita
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#114281 - 08/05/07 01:38 PM
Neat story...Re: If he doesn't do...
[Re: Danita]
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Member
Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 10032
Loc: New York State
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Dotsie, That was a cute story. What do VS bras have that others don't? I like underwire, except when they wear out. Those wires can hurt a person when they poke through the material. I like fancy, fancy underwear. I know that seems weird, but it gives me more confidence. Anybody else a bit off center, here? What the heck is an Oprah Bar? And where do you buy one? Ciao for now,
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#114282 - 08/05/07 04:46 PM
Re: Neat story...Re: If he doesn't do...
[Re: jabber]
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Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 217
Loc: Moscow
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I just adore fancy underwear. It make me feel beautiful to have sumptuous skivvies on, like I know that underneath the jeans and the T shirt--is one hot babe. I gotta say I don't like to mail order clothing of any kind because it usually doesn't fit right and doesn't look as I had expected it too. The Victoria's Secret undies were an exception. I ordered 2 bras. I just love love this one: http://www2.victoriassecret.com/commerce...&rfnbr=3210It has lift and push up and it's an underwire, but you'd never know it. Totally smooth surface all around and even better, it stays in place. Never rides up or shifts around. It is absolutely the best bra I've ever owned. No lie. (but I got it in beige, not this sick kiwi green) I also bought another model that I like and is comfortable, but it has a lot more silicone in the cups than I'd expected and I don't like it quite as well as the one above. This bra is amazing. I think the Victoria's Secret catalog has more and better merchandise than the retail stores. Their 800 customer service is supreme. Their return policy is flawless. Great mail order company to do business with. I also bought a swimsuit and coverup from them earlier this year which looked beautiful and fit great and was briefly discussed right here at BWS. http://www.boomerwomenspeak.com/forums/s...ge=1#Post115182In fact this suit looked so good a friend of mine who is just now in Greece with her man, bought exactly the same suit and cover up after she saw mine! And the prices are absolutely reasonable. You should definitely check out VS. Good merchandise, nice quality, excellent customer service, competitive prices.
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#114290 - 08/07/07 07:02 PM
Re: Neat story...Re: If he doesn't do...
[Re: meredithbead]
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Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
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I don't like them either JJ. lol I didn't wear one when I was younger but since I'm older I felt I needed to start. One study said that bras caused breast cancer. Apparently women in third world countrys don't get breast cancer due to breast feeding and not wearing bras. So I say lets go topless and solve the whole problem. That would help with the hot flashes too.
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#114294 - 08/09/07 08:15 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: jabber]
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Queen of Shoes
Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 6123
Loc: Arizona
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Every single time I decide to go bra-less around the house, somebody shows up at the front door! It's like my boobs have built in radar or something.
_________________________
If it doesn't feel good, don't do it twice. www.eadv.netBoomer Queen of Shoes
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#114295 - 08/10/07 12:25 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Dianne]
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Member
Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 1550
Loc: Colorado
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Dianne,
Your breasts must be sending out vibrations into the universe that they want company. LOL.
That's one way to get company to the house!
danita
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#114296 - 08/10/07 01:35 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Danita]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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thats a diffrent way to put it D lol, Board lonlie ladies worrie no more 5 minuets of private bra lessness bringes horeds.......
_________________________
"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#114297 - 08/10/07 03:24 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Queen of Shoes
Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 6123
Loc: Arizona
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Maybe that's why men talk to my chest...they think it's lonely! LOL!
_________________________
If it doesn't feel good, don't do it twice. www.eadv.netBoomer Queen of Shoes
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#114298 - 08/11/07 05:20 AM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Dianne]
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Member
Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2561
Loc: Alabama
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I just had a visual...all of us sitting around in our PJ's and talking trash...that would be so much fun. A BWS slumber party...
_________________________
Dee
"They will be able to say that she stood in the storm and when the wind did not blow her away....and surely it has not.....she adjusted her sails" - Elizabeth Edwards
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#114300 - 08/11/07 03:07 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Laurel]
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Queen of Shoes
Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 6123
Loc: Arizona
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I'm all over that idea!!!!!
_________________________
If it doesn't feel good, don't do it twice. www.eadv.netBoomer Queen of Shoes
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#114301 - 08/11/07 06:39 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Dianne]
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Member
Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 1550
Loc: Colorado
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Dianne will just HAVE to wear her bra at the slumber party - so that boys don't come in heards to knock down the door!
lol
danita
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#114302 - 08/12/07 02:37 AM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Danita]
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Member
Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2561
Loc: Alabama
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Okay ya'll (I'm using my Paula Deen voice)...ya'll come on and we'll have a good time...We'll eat things that are bad for us, laugh until we cry...cry until we laugh, share photos and talk about things only walk talk about together...
Gosh, if only this could happen...THAT would be so cool. Oh, well...
_________________________
Dee
"They will be able to say that she stood in the storm and when the wind did not blow her away....and surely it has not.....she adjusted her sails" - Elizabeth Edwards
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#114303 - 09/16/07 03:52 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Dee]
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Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 445
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Dear Mrs. Madness,
When I read your first post, I started weeping. Because I understand - can truly empathize -- with every word, every lost dream -- every unmet human need you so touchingly expressed.
Because, my friend, I am there also. Here in the US, in Maryland, I am hurting just as you are.
I've had years of counseling for depression. But, I've had a breakthrough.
I am not angry. I am hurt. I am weeping for all of the years that I have given to a man who never says, "I love you," refuses to hold my hand, who never even pats me on the back.
Since his father died, the years ago, anything I did share with him has slowly faded away.
You see, he is an only child. He takes his mother to football games at Maryland University. They have season tickets.
He takes her down to her beach cottage approximately every other Sunday. I no longer go, because she rides in our backseat and I can no longer even look at her.
I am not mean to her, it's just that she took over my husband for the year after his father's death. And, over ten years later, they are the couple and I am the third party in the car.
I must continue on the next post. I will time out.
Love,
Emily in Maryland
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#114304 - 09/16/07 04:07 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Emyjay]
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Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 445
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On Tuesday's, they eat out together and I am not invited.
I have an grown only child from a first marriage. In that case, the love of my life abandoned me. He's been missing for approximately 20 years. He got involved with drugs and was changed from the love of my life, to someone neither me nor friends or family could even recognize.
Our son, my son was born with a bilateral cleft of the lip and palate. He had allowed our insurance to lapse. Two days after my baby was born, I was told I had no insurance.
He came to the hospital, brought his girlfried with him, and I went into shock. Literally.
I was raised Baptist and did not believe in divorce. I waited so many years, hoping he would come back from where ever he had gone.
I married John because I had been dating him for some time, while I was living with my mother and father. He and my son were so close. My son -- from the time he was six-months old -- had to endure so many surgeries. How do you tell a baby that his arms have to be restrained so he won't injure his face? How do you look into your baby's terrified eyes and somehow convey that he can't be fed because he is facing surgery once again?
So, I married John. I knew he had a "mean streak."
He does not hit me. He has just been with holding affection from me since approximately one year after we were married.
I am an emotionally abused woman, who cannot leave because she's 59 and has no where to go.
So, I just look for all of the good that I can. I have four cocker spaniels and I love them and they love me.
I have two grandsons, and I love them and they love me.
I am in a marrital crisis right now. But I'll get through it as will you.
Because, in the end, you have to learn how to love yourself. You have to make yourself a cup of tea or light a candle if those are the little things that bring you comfort.
Will continue.
((((Mrs. Madness))))
My heart goes out to you.
Emily
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#114305 - 09/16/07 04:14 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Emyjay]
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Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 445
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I work because the children I care for hug me. Their parents share their heartaches -- and triumps - with me.
This show of affection soothes me.
My supervisor is horrible. Mean.
But, she isn't around me much, because I'm "on site," and she's usually in the field or in her office.
I choose to focus on those children and the affection I receive from them and their parents.
I hope that you'll read what I've written, so that you won't feel alone with your pain.
You will be okay. Really. As will I and so many others who feel emotionally abandoned.
My love to you, dear.
Emily in Maryland
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#114306 - 09/16/07 05:01 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Emyjay]
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Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 445
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Re: bras!
I've been wearing Breezies bras. I order mine from QVC. I think the one I wear, most of the time, is the Barely Breezies.
It's got underwire, but doesn't pinch. It's got light padding, enough to allow me to walk into a cold room filled with strangers!
It's got three hooks in the back, but the "wings" are not too wide. Mostly, the straps actually stay up!
Also, it's lined with some fabric called ultamare (sp).
Draws the perspiration from my body like a wick. I love, love, love this feature.
Actually, I think the owner of the company Kathy Gendel (sp) and her two grown daugthers, only sell though Qvc.
I do not like their top selling bra, which I found out was a "mimimizer." I've gotten fuller in the breast area post Menopause, which was great because I needed more in that area. I'm happy with what I have now, and definitely do not want my boobs to be minimized!
The Barely Breezies bras are cut lower, which gives me more cleavage but not too much.
I have to say, I'm curious about the Victoria Secret bras.
I used to wear them, but changed to breezies because I needed more "water control!"
Breezing along, here in Maryland.
Emily
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#114307 - 09/16/07 11:42 PM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: turtle]
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member
Registered: 07/06/06
Posts: 138
Loc: Oakland County, Michigan
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I can relate to you. Everyone has great insight and suggestions. Take time to be with friends for a feeling of self-worth. Take a vacation but invite him to join you. Go even if he says no. You will not change him unless he sees a need to. Maybe he likes living with himself better than with you. I have been divorced twice and married 12 years now to a very difficult man. Again, give me an email when you need to vent.
_________________________
Please Support VisionWalk 2008 for Foundation Fighting Blindness
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#114308 - 09/17/07 07:47 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Emyjay]
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Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 217
Loc: Moscow
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Emyjay I accidentally bumped into some old music last week, music that I hadn't heard in 30 years and had totally forgotten about. Normally I dislike nostalgia but it unexpectedly sent me back to when I was young, early 20's, when I had dreams and the future was so big and everything was possible. I have this image of being the same self all my life just ever a little older and older but basically the same. But when I thought back to the kind of person I was when that music came out it shook me. I am not the same person. Everything is not possible anymore. Things that have gone awry cannot be fixed. It's too late to fix those things and too much life has gone by and so much of that early optimism is gone too. Too many heartaches have come and gone and that changes you forever. It was this song, "The Circle Game" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep7uySNpUyw"We can't return, but can only look behind from where we came, And go round and round in the cirle game." Joni Mitchell was 21 when she wrote that.
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#114309 - 09/18/07 01:47 AM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: mrs_madness]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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That was, and still is, an amazing song. I heard Arlo Guthrie once say that songs aren't created, they are just plucked from the air.
_________________________
Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#114310 - 09/18/07 01:47 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Casey]
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Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 445
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When we are in our early twenties, most of us haven't experienced life as a reality. What we picture as what we will want and need is usually based upon dreams -- not the reality of a "lived" life.
For some of us, reality comes in the form of unexpected challenges, like those that I experienced when my son was born. For others, the path remains smooth. But eventually, my friend, everyone encounters some kind of tradgedy such as the natural death of an older relative, the premature death of a parent or sibling, or some other type of trama.
Maybe, we don't encounter "loss" ourselves, but we're out in the world and we learn that these things happen. Maybe they've happened to a close friend, or a roommate, or a colleague at work.
And that's when and how we learn about "loss."
And all losses need to be grieved. That's how we grow. We
grieve the loss of each dream by facing, then acknowledging and eventually accepting that those youthful dreams weren't based upon the reality of life.
I believe that all true growth results from loss.
Please keep reading Emily
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#114311 - 09/18/07 02:21 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Emyjay]
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Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 445
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Lost my cont. post. Have to go to work for a bit. So sorry. Will get back to you today.
Take care of yourself, Mrs. Keep writing. You're going to be just fine.
Love,
Emily
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#114312 - 09/18/07 04:28 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Emyjay]
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Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 1761
Loc: Southern Maine, USA
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Yes, heartaches, sorrows and losses DO change you. I do a lot of thinking along these lines these days and I expect that won't stop as I age. I relect constantly....in fact, sometimes I think I "deep think" a little too often. I marvel at how naive I was at 20-something. Old age is a lifetime away and I hoped for all the best. Life hasn't given me anything near what I had hoped for. But I tend to see that my growth today and who I am reflects some of the things that have scarred me. If I indulge in self pity I hurdle down fast so I've tried to keep clear of that. Still, I suspect we all feel sad for what wasn't and what is at some moments. My hubby and I refer to them as "triggers." You're going about life as usual and then hear a song, or see something and you're transported back. Sometimes that's pleasant and a lot of times it isn't. A counselor told me (after my divorce) that when those troubling, painful thoughts arise to let them wash over me but continue to flow away. Don't let them penetrate too deep. I realize that I have strength today....that I sincerely wonder if it would be here if I had not walked the road I had to. There's a lot of wisdom in living for today because it's all we have. Hang in there, friends...we all have a little or a lot of this going on as time goes by.
_________________________
If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane ~ Jimmy Buffett
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#114313 - 09/19/07 04:08 AM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: ladyjane]
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Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3675
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
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For mrs. madness: You are a surprising person..amidst that wistful sadness, there's fire in you other times. Last week that post of yours about health care, living near Mexico border...and so on...you have amazing spirit in yourself. Please don't forget and harness that fire of yours. And you might have to do something outside of your hubby.
Emjay: Go for those things you've been longing to do. And let hubby figure himself out.
General comment: Well, if I knew in advance what would happen in life, I would have AVOIDED certain experiences,..that in the end, made me a better person. Not always every experience made me happier, but yes wiser.
At this time in life, I know I still have some things to resolve and now that I'm living thousands of kms. away from family, it is four times more difficult to resolve things/make things better at a distance.
However am comforted that I have done things in the past which clearly showed I had my best intentions at heart for various people and I know it is acknowledged...because now they have mentioned certain concepts, ideas that I have ...fought for in the broader community.
Remember this: you are, yes, one pebble among many pebbles, dropped in a pool of water, with unknown circles of influence.
I often feel my own family has very little idea what I have accomplished in other spheres of my life... yet those accomplishments are due...to very powerful influences of parents..whom we sometimes still disagree with/have misunderstandings.
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#114314 - 09/19/07 10:38 AM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: orchid]
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Member
Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 3027
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Sarah Ban Breanach writes in Simple Abundance (one of my faourite books) about driving and having to pull over for a weep.
"Standing Knee Deep in Water and Dying of Thirst."
This provoked me to buying the song.Sarah has been a book companion for several years I find her a pleasure and a book friend.
Music touches the soul.
Mountain ash
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#114316 - 09/19/07 07:11 PM
Re: Only in public...
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Member
Registered: 01/03/06
Posts: 195
Loc: Georgia, U.S.
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It is sad in a way, that Life is constant change, and loss is inevitable. I believe it's how we handle the episodes of loss in our lives that teach us more of what we are as human beings, than in how we handle the episodes of gain.
As for the aging marriage...I think in every great long-term committed relationship, there is a process that is undergone, participated in by both parties. It is the process of understanding one another, as human beings. There is so much more to it all, than merely, well he's a man! or she's a woman! and never the twain shall meet! No, I don't believe that at all. Through the years of my marriage, honest communication has been a necessity. I've also often walked in my husband's shoes, so to speak. I've endeavored to see his life experiences through his eyes, and in so doing, in attempting to understand to the best of my abilities, this one man, I believe I've gleaned some small insight as to the male gender. This, and the fact that we have, unwittingly, taught each other, through the years, through all the changes we’ve experienced during life, what it is to be female and male.
Aging together, my husband and I are each other's best friends. There is no question, with either of us, with whom we'd rather spend time. We know each other as humn beings, as intimately as we know ourselves, the good, and the bad, we know each other. With all we know, we love and genuinely like one another.
_________________________
Jeannine Schenewerk
www.intouchwithjeannine.com[i]'It's never too late in Fiction-- or in Life to Revise.' ---Nancy Thayer
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#114317 - 09/20/07 10:51 AM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Jeannine]
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Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 445
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Mrs. Madness,
Sorry I haven't been able to continue with what I was writing.
Work is just hectic this week. But I haven't forgotten about you.
And as you can see, there are many wise, compassionate ladies who post on this site. And most of them are very open about their own, personal experiences -- willing to share their stories and how they coped or are coping.
I really get the feeling that you are in the process of grieving the loss of your dreams. That's normal and I think necessary, if we are to grow.
It doesn't mean that you won't have "new" dreams.
A very wise therapist suggested the following "visual," to be used whenever I was feeling overwhelmed with past memories or whenever life was feeling unfair.
Think of a scale of balance. One side is negatitive, one positive.
When life starts piling on so much "negative" that the scale tips in that direction, you have to purposely add good things to the positive side, until the scale is balanced. You won't always achieve perfect "balance," but you will not feel so over-whelmed.
Example: for the time being, stop listening to the old tunes that bring you down. If you like music, choose to listen to songs that trigger hope and other postive feelings. If you like to read, read more. If you like certain foods, eat more of those foods.
Add "actions" to the positive side of your life scale.
I could have explained the scale of balance in better terms, but I'm afraid that I'll time out.
cont.
Emily
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#114318 - 09/20/07 10:58 AM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Emyjay]
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Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 445
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I'm not trying to tell you that you don't have reasons to be feeling very sad. I know those feelings all too well. (Read my posts in mental illness.)
I'm also on meds and will be for the rest of my life. This is positive -- I'm taking positive action by taking medicine available to me. I have a family history of depression and have seen the toll that depression has taken on members of my family who have refused medicinal help. I choose to take the meds for myself, my husband and my children and grandchildren.
I'm also wondering if it might be possible for you to take time off from work to come back to the states for awhile.
That doesn't mean that you have to make a decision to separate or divorce. You'd just be taking some time to heal.
Need to get to work. Will check back today.
Aren't the ladies on this site wonderful! So compassionate and willing to share their own stories and coping skills!
Love,
Emily
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#114320 - 09/21/07 12:53 PM
Re: Only in public...
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Member
Registered: 01/03/06
Posts: 195
Loc: Georgia, U.S.
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Dotsie, other than child rearing, I can think of no part of my life that took harder work, or gives me more rewards, than my realtionship with my husband. And considering the children were being raised at the same time as that relationship grew and matured, I'm sometimes amazed we managed it at all! If my husband asked me for a simple explanation of why it's worked for us, I'd answer him with this line from a Rob Thomas song:
Cuz there's a little bit of something me
In everything in you
_________________________
Jeannine Schenewerk
www.intouchwithjeannine.com[i]'It's never too late in Fiction-- or in Life to Revise.' ---Nancy Thayer
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#114321 - 09/21/07 02:42 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Jeannine]
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Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 445
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Dotsie,
I'm having a great time at my site. The not so nice supervisor is still my boss, but her boss, the executive director, is leaving.
So, I think she's in for a shock. It's been a free-ride for her, for reasons non of us can figure out. But, what's that saying about the wheels of the gods move slowly but . . . ???
Also, my number one husband never took his vows seriously. Apparently, his mind was on one of his girlfriends while we were standing in front of the minister.
If you marry one like that, it is impossible to work or talk things. Out. Mine would say he was going out for milk, and not come home for three or four days. No kidding.
I'm just saying this because others on this site may have been or are married to a Husband-Missing-In-Action.
My current husband is still a work in progress. There have been enough good times to counteract the rough times. For this I am thankful.
Mrs. - how are you doing today? Keep posting. Keep venting. Let it out. Just know that you will find yourself in a better place. (((((((((((((Mrs.)))))))))
My heart goes out to you.
Emily
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#114322 - 09/21/07 07:44 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Emyjay]
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Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 217
Loc: Moscow
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We're moving to China. Got the news today. Bah.
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#114323 - 09/22/07 05:28 AM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: mrs_madness]
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Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3675
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
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Is it your hubby's job that's causing the relocation?
What is the city/area?
Do you have an opportunity to visit other family/long-term friends at this time? I guess spending a month or so somewhere else?
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#114326 - 09/23/07 06:32 AM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Edelweiss]
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Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 217
Loc: Moscow
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Quote:
Gosh Mrs. Madness, I think you are leading a fascinating life. But of course looking in from the outside means I have no clue as to how fascinating it really is.
Yes, can you tell us where in China you’ll be moving to? If you are anywhere near where the Olympics are being held, then maybe we could meet?
I know you didn’t like Russia. Do you think the same awaits you in China? From what I’ve heard it is a country of extremes. There are the new rich, who don’t know what to do with all their money, and then the poor peasant farmers, who don’t have a clue as to the economic explosion going on there.
What are you doing to prepare for this move, or are you taking it cold turkey?
Beijing. Yes of course you can come visit! You're planning on going to the Olympics?
Yeah I thought it was facinating too....for a while. Not facinating any more. Moscow a city of 20 million, Beijing 12 million. I am not thrilled at the prospect of going to another big dirty mega city. I hear that the smog in Beijing is horrific. Some of the wold's worst .
You don't know, or maybe you do, that traveling for a fun vacation, and living in some 3rd world country, are two entirely different things. As far as I'm concerned both Russia and China are 3rd world countries. And while the husband happily trots off to work every morning....
I get to figure out how to ride the bus in a foreign country. I get to figure out how to buy the food and where things are and how to get a dentist appt. and shlep everything home in a wheelie cart. I'm the one who has to get a grasp of whatever language is going on because I'm the one who takes care of everything. This is neither exciting nor fun. It's exhausting. It has taken me years to acquire a minimum of survival skills here and now I get to do it all over again.
bah
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#114327 - 09/23/07 06:11 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: mrs_madness]
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Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 445
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Mrs. Madness,
This move sounds exciting to me, too! But then, I'm not moving there. And I'm not you.
Since so many Americans do business in Bejing, you'll probably be able to connect with other Americans. Hopefully.
By the time you finish organizing all of these third world moves, you'll be a professional where-the-h--l-are-you-taking-me veteran! You could write a book or open a third world relocation business!
Emily (who has never lived outside DC or Maryland)
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#114328 - 09/23/07 11:05 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Emyjay]
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Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3675
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
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Mrs. madness, I haven't been to China yet..nor any ASian country yet. But I've been wanting to go off and on which is why I've been following lazily the economic development, politics,etc. of what's happening ..for the past 15 yrs. It must difficult to live in a country that is not of your choosing at all, not even at the innocent, "honeymoon" stage of exotic destinations. I Hope that you will immerse yourself with a group of Chinese English-speaking women...Beijing is an intellectual nerve centre for China for hundreds of years and so you will not be isolated. But it does require the lst step. Since I am Chinese, but I don't speak /understand Mandarin at all, this would be my first attempt to immerse myself in that society there. OR take a course/volunteer. Since China is experiencing some social problems because of very rapid economic development, modernization, dislocation of families/members between rural and big cities, Beijing would have some advocacy / non-profit organizations started up...and these organizations would be courageous in their work at this point in history. There's alot of work in: environmental protection, occupational safety, women's issues (women's shelters, etc.), counselling (pyschiatry is a relatively new discipline in China), fitness and arts. Otherwise the city, any city will appear impenetrable and always foreign to you. I would like to hear about your food shopping expeditions. I would like to know what you learn... there. 
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#114330 - 09/25/07 05:13 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: mrs_madness]
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Member
Registered: 01/03/06
Posts: 195
Loc: Georgia, U.S.
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Mrs. Madness, the link below might be helpful. It's information from ExPatExchange: Living in China I've been researching Mexico, specifically Puerto Vallarta, as a retirement destination, and the Ex Pat site is a great place to become acclimated, via advice, etcetera, from other Americans residing in foreign countries.
_________________________
Jeannine Schenewerk
www.intouchwithjeannine.com[i]'It's never too late in Fiction-- or in Life to Revise.' ---Nancy Thayer
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#114332 - 09/30/07 07:19 PM
Re: Only in public...
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Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 1341
Loc: Sweden
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Mrs madness..what you describe about trying to live in a new country brings back all the memories of coming to Sweden at the age of 21..newly married and trying to make it all work..as you describe. Taking a walk in a new place..where you are living..the FEEL of the streets and the air is different..even if you don´t meet a soul on your walk..the FEEL is different and it can bring on panic..the panic of not beeing able to run..because this is your new home.. you are not on a short holiday. I have been lucky and staid in Sweden..next year..in December, I will have lived here for 40yrs. When I came to Sweden at the end of l968, it was still a very closed country..made up only of Swedes. Everyone thought like the local newspaper. It was amazing. You must remember that I left the US in 1968..alot was going on over there. ALOT. It was like coming to nighttime. YES, alot has happened here since then. I have also, of course, developed and learned alot along the way. But oooo I remember my beginnings here. I wish you luck along the way..if this what you want? Is it? You must be pretty "adult" yourself by now..do you ask yourself along the way..what do I want??? Of course you may want to stay with your hubby and make this a priority..this is so important and worthwhile. But..where are YOU in all of this??? Can you make YOU important too???
Good Luck! You´re one strong lady!!! I am fascinated by the Chinese culture and history..your family..where are they now that you are moving???? Lots of LOVE!!!!!!
_________________________
"some sacred place.."
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#114333 - 10/07/07 10:18 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: humlan]
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Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 445
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Mrs. Madness,
Just wondering how you are doing, if you've moved, made any decisions.
My husband is on my s--- list again. He almost treats me nicely . . . I think he's maybe going to give me an innocent hug . . . then, he's back to what I hope is just an extended male menopause.
Oh, well. I've just organized a community book club. Hopefully, I'll make some new friends.
Been thinking about you - just very busy at work, which is supposed to be part-time but is not.
Hope you are doing okay . . . feeling a bit more up.
Blessings,
Emily
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#114334 - 10/08/07 07:01 PM
Re: Only in public...
[Re: Emyjay]
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Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 217
Loc: Moscow
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That's so nice. So very very nice. Thanks, I really mean it. I feel lost and abondoned a lot. I'll write again soon. Thanks for asking about me.
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#114336 - 10/23/07 08:03 AM
Re: Ageing marriages
[Re: Jane_Carroll]
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Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 17
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I just wanna say that the most time of life is quiet. Passion is its spice. Both you and he need to understand each other.
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