I just want to put this somewhere. I was again hurt because a woman told another woman that I am in contact with, after meeting me, that I was "intimidating."

I am hurt by this over and over again.

I am an educated, very experienced, entertainer. When I speak, I may speak in a tone that a singer uses or I may sound like I am easy with myself. When I stand somewhere, after a lifetime of dance, yes, I am comfortable in my body!
When I talk to a group, yes, they may life me because I am TRAINED to say the nice thing and to be good to people. I have been trained to behave like a lady in public since I was put on television and smacked for falling asleep at the age of 5!
It's not ME that these people see, it is my outside. I went to finishing school. I modeled. I am not at fault for my first impression if it scares people or "intimidates them!"
ALL my life this has hurt me because people don't get to know me, they just get jealous and hurtful! Even when I care about someone and want to help them they take me for someone I am not! NO ONE tries to see beyond the very trained outside of me!
It hurts, all the "single white females," all the jealous wives, all the problems I have joining REAL people because they only accept me on stage! HOW do I make them more comfortable? I've tried putting myself down and devalueiing myself for them but it does nothing but hurt me too!

I give up! I may end up with very few friends but what can I do? I try and try to please but it's never enough to bypass my outter image! It does hurt. I liked this woman but I guess she is "intimadated," by me and so she doesn't know if she's "good enough," as she put it, to present with me!
I want to quit. I care though and I will NOT.

This trap hurts so much.

Thank you to anyone who reads this. I just needed to get it out again. Apparently I'm "too popular," too!

Nice.

dancer9, haunted

Well dancer, I have a similar problem. In some workplaces I am perceived as a bit aloof, distant and sometimes, a little strong/aggressive in style. I have tried to carefully reveal personal parts of me to humanize myself abit ...and also to give praise to others. The latter is something I have to consciously work at. Also sometimes, I might have to shut up ..and just listen.

Maybe similar thing for you, ...more credit, praise to others. However, there are some people who just have not had the exposure like you have where you are by training and your career, have become an outgoing, a more "public" figure than others.

As for jealousies from other women,...perhaps if I could provide my spin, as a woman who is not nature outstandingly attractive, never have been and never will be. Just lucky, to be born petite.

I cannot become jealous of other women because:

*I have always had great relatonships with my sisters, some of whom are noticeably attractive. They are all intelligent and gifted. This paves the way to all relationships with other girls and women later on through life. We never fought over looks nor over fashion. I firmly believe,a good relationship with same sex friends, begins sometimes in life, from home first.

*One of my closest friends for about 20 years...was a beauty queen contestant. She did enter Miss Canada pageant. She was also a genuinely pleasant person with no axe to grind and intelligent. She worked hard to maintain academic excellence...and also carried a waitressing job while she was in school. She eventually got her Master's degree in pharmacology and moved into a management position for a pharmaceutical giant. So through her, I learned how "normal" and other problems of women who are very attractive but also highly intelligent.

She and I have had a falling out over something totally different. But still, as a result of this friendship I had, I never considered attractive or gifted women as a threat. I knew my own strengths after all, and what I could bring to the table.

I feel sorry for some women who still in their mid-years and onward, have huge insecurities about themselves that make them jealous of some other women. Such an incredible drain of energy and time.

My only comment, you might have to sit back on certain occasions and let others vent/come forward. But my gut feeling, tells me that you have tried to do this already.

Orchid, Thank you. I must tell you that I knew this about you already from your posts. I am so used to having to protect myself that I can sound out a person very quickly to find out if they will give me a hard time for being myself or not.
You showed yourself to be comfortable with me from the beginning, and yes, your posts to me were designed to ask ME and not my image or where I've been.

I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. I hope it had nothing to do with how she presents herself but somehow I know you are much "bigger," than that. You will not judge nor avoid those who appear different, even if different is good.
I thank you for your friendship on this forum and again, I saw your colors right away. I did appreciate you coming out to talk to ME.
If all were like you my life would be lovely. I would have friends I could confide in who did not want something or to be me, or like me.
I respect you very much here and if you noticed that, it is because of the above.
Your character is strong and for that, I salute you.
dancer

I should add that I am a middle sister and yes, I have one sister who cannot STAND me because of who I am and what I am. It has hurt all my life. She has told me it was jealousy but she cannot get past it. She is aware she cannot get past it and is honest about it. Does this help? No. I miss having a real sister who can be there for me. I have an older sister who is a "fan." She spends her time putting up the latest poster from a show of mine, or hanging my pictures when modeling on her work cubicle. It is sad and lonely. I don't know if I could have changed this but I doubt it. My mother had issues. My mother is a beautiful woman but lacks social interest. Only my grandmother who was a model all her life took interest in me and she was the only person to even do my hair in a style when I was a little girl! My mother would dress my sisters hair and leave mine as it was! It was hard. It is hard.
Early experiences should teach us things but I spent, and sometimes spend, my time trying to get those "sisters," to accept me but the "sisters," now are women I meet. If you understand this, you can understand why I sometimes devalue myself in situations to try to get others more comfortable with me.
It has hurt me and I shan't do it again....
thanks again, Orchid.
dancer9

Well, my mother is a complex, difficult person. But she and dear father did do the right thing at least....they never compared their children, on basis of physical beauty. But yes, occasionally there were temperament comparisons.

I do credit my mother's style of raising us as harmonious sisters...because she herself, had 4 sisters and got along with several of them. I did meet some of my aunts.

What I fought with sisters when young....was more on the intellectual front or on certain topics. Not even fashion/not chick stuff. Seriously.

Don't work so hard, dancer to please another sister. Just to have a mind that is always open to learning from others. That will carry anyone far. I am certain already there must a tiny handful of friends who have supported you for a good part of life.

Dancer,
This is a topic I'm not sure I can bring much wisdom, because feeling that I don't belong anywhere or am accepted for who I am has been the story of my life. Much of it does stem from history and experience of being on the outside-looking-in, some of which was due to a sheer inability to figure out what or who I needed to be in order to be acceptable to that "inside" group. And since I still sit in my basement at my computer day after day because I have no friends here to share lunch, shopping, or whatever with, it would seem that I still haven't figured it out.

But there are some things I HAVE figured out, though I'm still not so good at 'practising what I preach'. One is that each and every one of us has a very distinct, unique light & wisdom that ONLY WE are capable of shining out into the world - and the world NEEDS that light and we do a great disservice when we refuse to shine, or hide that light behind our fear of shining it. The other thing is that nobody gains when anyone else's light is made to shine brighter by diminishing another person's light...sometimes we step back in order to allow others' voices to be heard and wisdom to be spoken, but I think that we must always safeguard EVERYONE's light and voice and wisdom, including our own, from being diminished.

So in the midst of all of that tangle is this hope, that you never allow anyone to diminish you or your light in order for theirs to shine brighter - the world needs YOU & YOUR light, and you too are meant to shine bright. Your combination of history, experience, talents & gifts, wisdom and insight creates a unique voice and wisdom that nobody else can speak, and you must not allow anyone else to silence your voice or steal your joy or diminish the much-needed gift that you bring to the world. Shine. And know that it's no accident that you are who you are with all that you bring to the world...you are MEANT to shine the unique light that only you can shine!

Other people's inability to accept you is a reflection on THEIR limitations, not on you. It hurts. I know all too painfully how much it hurts. Like I said, I don't know the answer. I just know that we can't allow anyone - including our own selves - to be diminished, the world needs every ripple of light we can possibly muster.

Eagle Heart,
Your post was lovely.If only the world thought as you do! You are special and open and all of the things I can count as "good," in a person.

Here, I try to be me. No one can see me and I find I have less of an intense effect if no one can.. I belonged to another forum for some time but had problems there for being "too popular." I had woman competeing with me on posts! It was uncomfortable and soon stifled me.

If only I could be a light, Eagle Heart, I would be happy. I have been told I have a light that shines but I'm not sure. I hope I have an induvidual voice because, to me, that is an important thing in this country and this world.

I have been "down," for awhile due to illness. I am picking myself up again with a disablity now, and trying to start to speak in "my voice," and open my world again. I've no idea where this will take me but I WILL follow that road because that is who I am...I take the road that rolls out in front of me if it is true to my heart.

Thank you, Eagle Heart, for reminding me of the lights that are in people and how very important they are! I don't apply that to myself very often but do so to my students or those younger than myself. I must remember to treat myself as I treat others.

Your post lifted me up, and I'm happy you responded.

dancer9

Orchid.
I answer you in black ink. Yes, I have had a FEW real friends who would take me through life no matter what happened. They are very, very attractive people with brains. I never got to know a person who was just attractive, as everyone is to me. I try, and it does not work. They put me in a box and label me every single time. I get excited when a "normal," person likes me, and many do, but they are full of questions about my life and I can never create that bond.
I have a close friend who is a golf professional.
I have another who is a good friend but cannot even have coffee with me because of "how it will look."
I have a very, very good friend who is very busy, he was a model for a long time and is a dancer as well.
I have one sister in law who is a phone friend who used to haved a problem when we lived in the same city with hwo I look.

that's it. Those are my friends. Everyone else is an acquaintance. I have many people who respect me and will take my calls without blinking. They are not friends though. I have people who want to be my friend until they try it and act out so I have to move away a bit from being a real friend to them.
It's really sad.
This is one of my painful points in my life and I am confessing more than I usually do EVER.
I have a LOT of people who admire me and my work. I know a LOT of people who admire me, period.

I wish they had gotten to know me.

Thank you for this outlet, Orchid. It may hurt, but seeing the truth is something I like.

My one friend who cannot have coffee with me is a psychiatrist. He trained at Mt. Sinai, (sp,) in New York and is 6'7" and attractive so he can be my friend, I suppose.
He told me that my life was about truth, art and beauty after analyzing me as shrink friends do. He also told me that he spent the first three years of our friendship trying to find a "deep flaw," in my character and could not find one. Imagine. He thought someone like me HAD to have something inherently wrong with them.

Thanks for the chance to vent!

dancer9

Well, one day I hope you'll just get together with your real sisters....and just be sisters. I wish the love between amongst you as sisters was liberated...as a dove set free. May such happiness sit quietly with the 3 of you 1 day all together as a trio.

Last week, I was slightly surprised another woman in the office, tossed a slightly negative comment at me. She suggested 1 of the woman, who reported to me, maybe afraid of me.

AFterwards it occurred to me that I may be abit distant to quite a number of women at work. Friendly but distant at times. It is possible that if I am put into a role of mentoring others or supervising others or just being the "older" sister, I tend to expect the person to become their very best. Which may not be fair. I don't know. I just get abit impatient with mature but directionless women now.

But truth be, that after working for several employers, I just found it easier not to get too close. And the woman who is supposedly afraid of me...well, it must be for reaseons I don't know or don't really exist. She no longer leaves our office area to go out for lunch others. Instead she sticks around in the same office space where I am at lunch. I seldom go out to lunch with anyone. Lots of guys where I work...and the gals have their own little groups. That's ok ..for lone rangers like me.

What I'm trying to say, is being the best learning self, even though it might feel abit lonely at times, is not the worse thing either. And having those few good friends that you can rely on..is fine...even if you don't see them often. Same problem I have now..except my closest friends are thousands of kms. away.

Sounds like my life, Orchid! It is surely their loss that you have to keep your distance because you clearly have a LOT to offer in the way of friendship! I understand that you, like myself, have reasons to protect yourself from jealously, which is what is really happening if your co-workers find you intimadating.
I think it IS fair that you want employees to do their very best! It is what they pay you for and why you have your position! If everyone did do their best, our world would run smoother for sure!
I can picture you in your workplace in these conditions and I'm sorry you have to deal with those who could learn from you but decide to, for lack of a better word, Hide from you!
It's wrong for you and separates you from, as I said, giving the gifts you have to give.
Then again, you do give them something to aspire too and that is very important for people to have.
As to my sisters, it will never happen. I was asked to attend a dinner this evening at my mothers where she lives with a caretaker. I am the sibling to "show off," and the only one that will do such as thing, (show up with little notice to represent my mother at a dinner.) I go with exhaustion because I know it means putting on that "perfect show," and not being myself.
Still I do this because my mother shows her love for me as best she can and she is ill so I feel that days with her are numbered.
( My mother is a princess. Lives on a trust fund, never worked a day in her life, and has things her way.)

Life can be hard, Orchid, but I don't have to tell you. I'm sure you "represent," for someone or something very often yourself.
dancer

Best,
dancer

Sounds like the shadow of your mother is getting in-between you and your sisters since you feel she treats you like a the princess that made it.

I'm not suggesting that everything is fantastic with my sisters. Of course, we have occasional spats...but for past few decades, it's pretty minor. And I so seldom see them now since I've moved to a different province.

The childhood-teenage hood-etc. friend that I mentioned earlier....we drifted apart after she divorced. I found it difficult to support her "side" for her marriage breakdown since she was accelerating in her career, but her house husband, a nice guy who became a stay-at-home daddy for a few years...was floundering. She just didn't understand why his ego was falling abit, etc. This was among other things, plus her big buy-in suppport of the pharma giants.

Yea, sometimes I'm an idealist.
It was an unusual but excellent 20-yr. long friendship for all those years, dancer. I was a brainy geeky, ugly duckling (I took prescribed tetracycline for bad acne) that loved books, art and more solitary activities and she was attractive, smart, generous, etc. Yes, she was even a cheerleader (and married a star football player and wrestler). She came from a white, middle-class family where home was beautifully decorated, her mother kept herself beautiful. But behind that veneer was a wild adopted brother who got into trouble with some minor crime, etc. She had 2 sisters who did do some minor modelling. Both were great women. I just found out 1 of her sisters died of breast cancer...at age 50.

I was from a poor family where nothing matched at home and my mother was exhausting herself as a full-time housewife for a big family.

We found each other's world abit interesting.

Knowing her, gave me a step into another world, other circles of (more distant) friends which were her friends similar to her. But it wasn't a world I felt totally at ease, so I never penetrated it for a long time in my teens.

I think our friendship became deep because each of us were willing to move in and out from each other's world to learn more about ..each other.


I also found out via her, how some attractive but quite intelligent women are treated by others, which wasn't always positive /morally uplifting. It only confirmed for me, that it's just an incredible waste of time to steer one's behaviour towards others based on another's person's outside visage / skin colour /etc.

So much good, potential talent and skill, is then overlooked.

Though the friendship is lost now, we probably left a small imprint on each other forever in a way, that made myself and her, better individuals. (Geez, this sounds like a sad soliloquy.)

I'm certain quite a numnber of other women here, would not be intimidated by you...since many are accomplished themselves...but come from very different walks of life.

Dancer,

This quote came to my mind...

“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.' We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small doesn't serve the world. There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we subconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we're liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."

Marianne Williamson from A Return to Love

We can never truly be less than we are...the truth of us always shines through in some way...relish yourself...your beauty...and your talents...it's just who you are!

I have had this same problem for years. I'm outgoing and have a lot of accomplishments, which I worked my fanny off for.

This is what I did. I try to associate with women who are more successful than me (not hard to find!) so I don't have to deal with the immaturity that brings about intimidation. I don't want to "hang" with a woman who can be intimidated by any woman. It's silly. I'd raise my bar with new girlfriends if I were you. Life is too short.

I am going to put my 2 bits in..but from another point of view. I get hurt because I DON´T show my "me". When I want to make a point and perhaps be quite definite about it, I find myself instantly showered with inner questions like: how can you be sure that you are right?; there are always other ways of looking at things; well, she/he is young and they have a right to his or hers black and white way of seeing things or they haven´t got that much experience yet, etc etc. These inner questions make even tongue tied sometimes and I almost stutter when I talk. My 17 yr old son can comment on this and say, "Mom, I hate when you start talking like that. Just get it out. Tell me what you want to tell me. I can take it." I don´t think I was like this when I was younger. I have become like this in my later years. I am 60 now. I have done some very stupid and hurtful things in my life that have humbled me quite alot. I am not that sure of how things should be anymore. But I do want to be able to give a clear impression of myself because I do think about things alot. I have been thru alot, too. I guess the toughest was the death of my little girl.

ANYWAY..Dancer and Orchid..you seem to be strong women that can show the world that you ARE strong. Maybe I am asking you..what is your secret. How do you do it? How do quiet all the questions that one has about life after living it for quite sometime. Or don´t you have so many questions? My partner asked me recently.."Why do you surrender/back off/give up? You are right practically all the time..and yet you relent. Why?" This question had to do with my job situation. I work with kids and my collegues are a little over 20 yrs old with no formal education in the field and no children or relationships of their own..yet. I have worked with kids since 1973. Have 5 of my own and have studied psychology. Having lost my little girl..well, it have given me another way to look at children and life..and yet I back down and get all broken up when we have word battles at work about how to deal with our problem children.

I would sooo like to be able to project my "wisdom" won by pain, joy and experience with a kind of certainty. You women seem to have that. I don´t want to close the door to my young colleagues..because their youth has alot to offer me and the kids we work with. But sometimes when I back down, I even feel that I am letting the kids down. They deserve what I sincerely believe they need.

This thought can also be carried over to my own kids who are now adults and 2 of them have families of their own. They need a mother who can set boundaries for herself an others..and who knows what she wants and doesn´t want. I think they need this. But then the inner questions come up..2 of my kids (ages 27 and 31)have been in therapy since I divorced their father in the year 2000. They are very very critical of me and their father. I have allowed them to be so, thinking they needed to get it all out..but am now finding that enough is enough.

I am continuing here because of the time thing...

I am wracked with guilt feelings when I say NO to my adult kids. When I don´t have the time or perhaps energy to take care of my grandkids when my daughter (single mother of 3 kids) asks for help..or money. I am sticking to my guns now..but the guilt feelings and uncertainty is quite difficult at times.

SOOO..how do you do it? How do you quiet the inner chatter?? I do yoga everyday.helps me alot, yes..but you women seem to do more..be "more" on the outside, as you say. I read about the spiritual meaning of yoga and buddhism..it helps very very much..I do affirmations..but what is that you got that I ain´t got? And how do I go about getting it???

If you have gotten this far..then thank you!!!!

Humlan, You said, "enough is enough." From what you say, it is enough!
I have always been how I am now. I was born this way, I guess.
I have had extensive therapy though. I've the idea that if you try once to STICK TO YOUR IDEA of what is right, practise makes perfect! Why not try to stick to your guns and take the risk? What do you have to loose? Maybe those who disrespect you will be upset, even leave your life, but do you need those who disrespect you in your life?

It is not easy, I think, to stick to your guns about your feelings and beliefs. However, our feelings, our heart, is what makes us who we are and separates us from others. Our heart is our voice, our real voice.

Have heart! Yes, our minds are needed by if we stick to what our heart says, we will learn more, meet more interesting people and have a life that is lived from our center.

My mother never told me what to do. She told me "Follow your heart," and I did. I made mistakes and I made good things too, like everyone else. But...I have no regrets, maybe because I followed my heart.

I do not know you, Humlan, but you seem like a soulful woman. You do yoga, you meditate, you are in touch with things others just don't bother reaching for. All that is left is for you to follow those things that come to you in your meditation!

I hope this makes sense. I don't know what you job is, so I can't say what is happening there. I am only getting to know you, so I can't give good ideas about what you can do until I know more about you.

But if your child is disrespecting you, it is my opinion that it has to stop. I have two sons who went through periods of growing pains and became short with me. I refused to take part in their lives at those times and let them make their own mistakes. If they did not want my advise, I did not give it. I back up and lived my own life. Sure enough, they came back to me and did need advise.

Kids are like toddlers all their lives:
They run ahead and do all they can do and when they get scared they come running back for your help and to feel safe. Let them run and when they find life is too hard on their own, cutting you out, they will return if you do not engage in any petty fighting and games they want to play.

Then again, Humlan, I'm an Italian/French mother, I'm a bit stubborn.

dancer

Jane, thank you so much for that. It did strike at the heart of me.
It's time to do so, to let the light shine as bright as it can. There is nothing to stop me now and I guess I need to give myself permission to take the next step. It's a big one and I had an added problem: I had to face down death three years ago and have been recovering ever sense. This gives me a sense of urgency about needing to carry on with my life regardless of where it leads me.

It's now or never, Jane, and I am brave, if nothing else.

thank you so much for that quote.

dancer

You know, Orchid,I always found a beautiful brain a magical thing. I surrouond myself with those with great brains. My friends that have lasted are smart, smart people who developed their brain in a lasting way. I love it, I envy it at times, but most of all I sit back and admire it so long as they can accept me for what I do.

This is a true thing. I have always found a good brain the best thing about a person, it is what attracts me to a friend.

I'm strange like that. The dancer with the brainy friends, that's me.
dancer

Humlan...this may not make sense...but you have to give yourself permission to be right...and permission to be happy regardless of how others feel about you or your actions...at least that's my take on it...

Humlan, the younger people could gain a lot from your wisdom. You should share it!

~ what Dianne said!
dancer

You already feel passionately to advocate for the youth at work, continue it.

As for your children, don't expect them to be totally on side with you --ever. After all, you know that you were not always right. So let it be. My only hope that they will realize...you brought them into this world and celebrate it. It is the greatest gift to give.

I hope your single-mom daughter gets her life in gear. She cannot rely on you for income. She's old enough...and she made her choices in life after she left mother's nest.