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#136719 - 01/05/08 03:05 PM I need your advice
Dee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2561
Loc: Alabama
This is rather long but I really need your input.

My stepson LW lived with his Mother until he went into the Navy 1.5 years ago. (LW is 25). He went in because he and his Mother spent money first instead of paying for the mortgage and their bills and LW went into bankruptcy (the house was in his name). His truck is part of the bankruptcy and when he went into the Navy has asked if we’d let him keep his truck at our place. His truck has a transmission problem. My husband, Larry, has been keeping the truck running as far as keeping the battery charged.
LW’s Mother moved down here to leech off her 30 year old daughter and they live in a one-bedroom apartment because both cannot manage money, have poor credit and cannot get a two-bedroom apartment because they cannot get a complex to take them based on their credit history.

LW went to Japan for six months and has returned. Instead of saving his money and fixing the truck he left with us, he took what little he did save and bought a ‘dead’ truck he found near the base. He wanted an old fixer-upper. He’s pouring every penny he gets into this truck and it still is undrivable. We’ve been bugging him to do something with this truck to get it off our property but he comes back with, ‘it’s in the bankruptcy and my lawyer is a jerk and doesn’t return my calls and I don’t know if I can sell it or not.’ LW’s Mother has power-of-attorney for him and was supposed to be trying to do something while he was in Japan, but of course, that didn’t happen because she’s lazy and procrastinates, too.

I saw LW’s sister (the one who is living with LW’s mom) online a week ago and instant messaged her to see if she knew if LW could sell his truck. Well, lo and behold, her mom was there also and they told me yes LW could sell the truck, he knows he can sell the truck and he even has the paperwork to do it, he’s just a procrastinator and doesn’t want to bother (lie #1 from LW). Said it would take about 4 months to get things moving and the lawyer was a jerk and wouldn’t return their calls.

I told them that since LW’s mom has power of attorney that perhaps we needed to bring the truck over to her apartment complex and leave it there so they could do something with it...that we were unable to do anything with it here and it was rotting as we speak. They said the apartment complex manager would not allow that to happen. I asked why not. They said they could only have so many vehicles and it would be towed. I told her perhaps if I contacted the police they would allow it to stay considering it was part of a bankruptcy deal. Suddenly, LW’s sister had to go.

I called the apartment complex and they said residents could have as many vehicles as they wanted but they did have to licensed and tagged or they’d towed. Since LW let the insurance drop and has not kept his tag up-to-date it would mean him coughing up money for that and that’s why they don’t want it off our property.

I called the bankruptcy court in the norther part of our state where it took place and was given the name and phone number of LW’s attorney. I called and got right in with the individual who told me that the first time he’d heard from LW was that morning (LW’s mom must have called him and told him to get busy on getting his vehicle taken care of). Other than that he said he’s not received any calls from LW in 7-8 months and that LW’s mom had only called him twice in the whole year and a half since the bankruptcy. (Lie #2). I told him it was conveyed to me that he was not returning their phone calls and that he was not working with them. He said this was not true at all...that he had done everything that was required of him when requested (Lie #3). He told me that LW had called but he wasn’t in the office at the time but asked that I give him the info needed to sell the vehicle. I wrote it all down and thanked him for his time. He was a very nice man.

I sat down and wrote out everything the attorney had said and sent a copy to LW and his mom and cc’d a copy to my husband. I wanted LW to know that I knew what was really going on and that he needed to do something about this truck and not just let it sit here and rot. His attorney was out this past week and will be back in his office next week and suggested LW contact him then about the steps he needs to take to get this truck either sold or returned to creditor (options given to me by his attorney).

I’ve since heard from LW and he’s not upset that I spoke with the attorney and thanked me for trying to help. He knows he has to deal with it. Now, the question is, is he?

Now here’s the question? How much more time do we give him before we move the truck to his mom’s (who has a power-of-attorney) so it will be her and LW’s problem instead of out-of-sight, out-of-mind, which is how LW’s put it in the past. We didn’t mind keeping it while LW was overseas but he’s back now and doesn’t seem to want to be bothered with it.

Situation, #2 is, he gets out of the active Navy in May and hasn’t saved any money for a place to live, isn’t looking for a job and may or may not have any reliable transportation in which to get to a job if he finds one. We’ve talked and talked to him about saving his money and being ready for when that day comes but it’s falling on deaf ears...he admits to us that he has a spending problem and it hasn’t improved since his bankruptcy.

I KNOW...I KNOW...he’s going to want to move in with us and his dad and I have agreed that this isn’t going to happen. If any of our kids fall on hard times because of no-fault of their own, that’s different, and we’d help them where we can and let them live with us until they get back on their feet...but, because LW wants instant gratification instead of saving for what’s important...rent money, utility money, car payments and on top of that he still has his bankruptcy payments that will begin again in June, we’ve decided he needs to dig himself out of this hole he’s dug himself into instead of us rescuing him. He’s telling us that he’s relying on a bonus the Navy is going to give him in July when he enters the reserves to get a place to live. We asked him...’where are you going to live in the meantime?’ He shrugged and said he guessed his truck.

LW has never looked for a bargain...always wants and buys the most expensive, goes from one expensive hobby to the next and ends up selling what he loses interest in later for half the price of what it cost him. He has no self-discipline at all when it comes to money and being responsible.

My husband and I have told him what he needs to do without coming right out and saying “you cannot live with us.” We’re both hoping we don’t have to do that...and I dread the day that I believe it coming when we’re going to have to say that to him.

One of my husband’s son’s is the opposite of LW...he’s hardworking, saves like crazy, has a home and two children. But LW and his sister could not save a dime if their life depended upon it...they take after their Mom.

I guess my question is...are we under any obligation to allow LW to move in with us when he falls on his face in May? How do we tell him he has to dig himself out of the hold he’s in? (Well, we have but it’s like talking to a brick wall). How much farther can he fall before he figures out spending isn’t going to put a roof over one’s head and pay the bills?
_________________________
Dee
"They will be able to say that she stood in the storm and when the wind did not blow her away....and surely it has not.....she adjusted her sails" - Elizabeth Edwards

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#136720 - 01/05/08 04:01 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: Dee]
ladyjane Offline


Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 1761
Loc: Southern Maine, USA
First off, Dee, I'd tell him in advance that he will NOT be moving in with you, even if you think it falls on deaf ears...at least it was told to him...maybe even Larry should be the one to tell him emphatically. As far as the truck goes, I know possession equals ownership in time. I'm not sure how long but I know someone here will know. The only thing is that it's involved in a bankruptcy procedure and so money would have to go somewhere else....guess I'm not too helpful with the legal stuff but certainly a lawyer would be. What I do know is you, or preferably Larry, must tell him now and outright that he cannot and will not be staying with you, just in case he thinks you'll cave and let him. Bailing his butt out of this won't help him at all. He's going to have to fall hard to learn some very valuable lessons. And if he never does, he will live with the consequences as he is somewhat now. Good luck, my friend, and keep us posted!
_________________________
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#136721 - 01/05/08 09:47 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: ladyjane]
Dotsie Offline
Founder

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 23647
Loc: Maryland
What if you address it now and offer to help him save his money. Eg. - "We know May is coming and we'd like to help you make sure you have a roof over your head. Would you like help with getting a job? Maybe your dad and I could help you go through the want ads?" or

"We're concerned about your financial situation. How about getting a job and turning your check over to us. We'll help you set up a budget and give you what you need to live. That way, we'll be sticking your money away for you so you have it when you need it." Maybe you could even give him an incentive like, "If you save x amount of dollars before May, we'll give you X amount of dollars to show you how much we appreciate your efforts." I know that sounds crazy, but if he ends up moving in, you'll be spending a heck of a lot of money on him, plus you'll have the frustration of having a poor, sad soul in your midst.

Just some thoughts on a positive approach.
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#136722 - 01/05/08 10:22 PM Re: I need your advice
ladyjane Offline


Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 1761
Loc: Southern Maine, USA
Dee, if all of the above doesn't work, I say "tough love." Sometimes with certain "kids" that's all there is. You know better than anyone what you're dealing with. Right?
_________________________
If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane ~ Jimmy Buffett

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#136724 - 01/06/08 02:21 AM Re: I need your advice [Re: ]
Dee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2561
Loc: Alabama
Thanks everyone for your support and words of wisdom. We're still not sure what the best approach to this is. At this point I don't think any of this is going to work...not the tough love nor the paying him to save his money. Have any of you ever listened to Dr. Laura? I don't agree with everything she says but she's tough when it comes to making a man be a man by making him stand on his own two feet. I can hear her saying 'no way' in allowing LW to move in with us (and I agree). I think in the end he'll end up piling in with his mom and sister because they have the same values when it comes to money and responsibilies. I think if he comes to us and asks to live with us we're going to suggest he find a 'room mate' to share an apartment with. That way we won't have to be in the middle of his life and he won't be dependent on us.
What's sad is LW is such a delightful person...he can be funny and a riot to be around...it's this side of him that's his downfall...like an addict he knows he has a problem, but he's not doing anything about it except acknowledging he has a problem. We've suggested financial counseling before but it fell on deaf ears. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
If anyone else has anymore suggestions I'm all ears.
As for the tough love, I had to use that on my 15 year old son 16 years ago...and it turned his butt around in no time. To this day he thanks me for it and says I loved him enough to be tough on him, which is what he needed. I think that's what LW needs...but, he's not my son and he's not 15 years old. Is he going to listen to me and his dad? He hasn't so far. I really don't see that changing.
_________________________
Dee
"They will be able to say that she stood in the storm and when the wind did not blow her away....and surely it has not.....she adjusted her sails" - Elizabeth Edwards

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#136725 - 01/06/08 02:43 AM Re: I need your advice [Re: Dee]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dee, wonder if you'd be willing to contact LWs first sergeant (or Navy equivalent) and inquire if a finance counselor is available to speak w/ LW. In other words, perhaps he could be given a direct order through his chain of command? As a military veteran, thought this might be helpful.

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#136726 - 01/06/08 03:34 AM Re: I need your advice [Re: ]
meredithbead Offline
The Divine Ms M

Registered: 07/07/03
Posts: 4894
Loc: Orange County, California
Dee, your question:
Now here’s the question? How much more time do we give him before we move the truck?
The answer is yesterday.
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#136727 - 01/06/08 04:38 AM Re: I need your advice [Re: meredithbead]
Dee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2561
Loc: Alabama
Thanks Merideth...I think so, too, but that's not going to happen.

MustangGal...hadn't thought about that...not sure what they would do about that if he's not breaking any military laws. I fear we're going to have to deal with him ourselves and give him the cold hard facts of life...he needs to grow up!!
_________________________
Dee
"They will be able to say that she stood in the storm and when the wind did not blow her away....and surely it has not.....she adjusted her sails" - Elizabeth Edwards

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#136728 - 01/06/08 09:29 AM Re: I need your advice [Re: Dee]
Edelweiss Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 4136
Loc: American living in Europe
Dee, You asked: How much more time do we give him before we move the truck to his mom’s

I’d give him 5 days to move the truck

You asked: I guess my question is... are we under any obligation to allow LW to move in with us when he falls on his face in May?

Since LW is 25 you are under no obligation. It’s tough as parents to watch a son or daughter go rock bottom, even if it’s their own fault. We were in a similar situation. We provided the roof and food over our sons head, but nothing else. What finally helped him was his girlfriend, who is now his wife. She didn’t stand for any nonsense, and left him because he couldn’t get his act together. That shook him up enough so that he made a complete turn a about. Now he’s a top manager of the largest commercial real-estate company in Germany.

The funny thing about this is that his girlfriend said all the same things we told him….only he listened to her, not us. So what I’m suggesting here is that maybe he would listen to some other authorities, …possibly from the military?

I think as parents it is important for the offspring to know that they can always come home if they can’t provide for themselves. In your case it’s harder Dee, since he is your step son. What does your husband think?

I’m not such an advocate of tough love. I say go by your gut feeling. If it makes you feel lousier to turn him away then let him come to your home. Then open your doors to him, under one condition. His father gets complete insight in his finances, and helps him organize his budgeting.

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#136729 - 01/06/08 12:27 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: Edelweiss]
Dee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2561
Loc: Alabama
Hannelore...thanks for your advice, too. That's why I posted here...I knew all of you would offer me sound advice.

Larry does not want his son to move in with us because he feels, from past experience, that LW would not change. I disagree about him being my step-son and it being harder because of that. I am of the same philosophy concerning coming home if any of them fall on hard times because of no fault of their own. In fact, LW moved in with us for 2-3 weeks before he went into the Navy and that was just fine. But, we knew that he had a goal and would be moving on. This time is different. He knows he's getting out in May and hasn't done anything in the last year to prepare for it. And he's spending every penny he makes on another hobby instead of spending it towards a vehicle that he already has and could have had repaired and working by now. That's why my husband is so frustrated with him...no common sense and despite the fact that he's talked to him about LW's need to reset his priorities in where his money goes, nothing's changed.

When LW and his Mom lived together and LW bought his first home...he blamed his Mom for not paying the bills when she said she would...despite the fact that his name was on the mortgage and his name was on the utilities. Instead of him coming behind her and checking or doing it himself, he put it out of his mind and spent his money on computer games and expensive exotic handled knives and expensive smoking pipes and expensive colognes and shaving equipment and bought another truck (the one sitting on our property now)...and (do you get my drift?). Then he blamed it on his Mother for losing everything. And his Mother is the same way...instead of paying her credit cards and taking care of her bills, she spent her money in the like manner. So together they functioned well dysfunctionally. When her son lost his home his Mother (50years of age) forced herself onto her daughter (30 years of age) and they continue with the bad spending habits...that's why they live in a one-bedroom apartment. LW's mom keeps saying she's going to move out but she will never save enough money. This is LW's mindset and who he gets it from and my husband believes he's never going to get his son to see reason.
Thanks everyone for the advice...I truly appreciate all of it. Bless you.
_________________________
Dee
"They will be able to say that she stood in the storm and when the wind did not blow her away....and surely it has not.....she adjusted her sails" - Elizabeth Edwards

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