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#136719 - 01/05/08 03:05 PM I need your advice
Dee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2561
Loc: Alabama
This is rather long but I really need your input.

My stepson LW lived with his Mother until he went into the Navy 1.5 years ago. (LW is 25). He went in because he and his Mother spent money first instead of paying for the mortgage and their bills and LW went into bankruptcy (the house was in his name). His truck is part of the bankruptcy and when he went into the Navy has asked if we’d let him keep his truck at our place. His truck has a transmission problem. My husband, Larry, has been keeping the truck running as far as keeping the battery charged.
LW’s Mother moved down here to leech off her 30 year old daughter and they live in a one-bedroom apartment because both cannot manage money, have poor credit and cannot get a two-bedroom apartment because they cannot get a complex to take them based on their credit history.

LW went to Japan for six months and has returned. Instead of saving his money and fixing the truck he left with us, he took what little he did save and bought a ‘dead’ truck he found near the base. He wanted an old fixer-upper. He’s pouring every penny he gets into this truck and it still is undrivable. We’ve been bugging him to do something with this truck to get it off our property but he comes back with, ‘it’s in the bankruptcy and my lawyer is a jerk and doesn’t return my calls and I don’t know if I can sell it or not.’ LW’s Mother has power-of-attorney for him and was supposed to be trying to do something while he was in Japan, but of course, that didn’t happen because she’s lazy and procrastinates, too.

I saw LW’s sister (the one who is living with LW’s mom) online a week ago and instant messaged her to see if she knew if LW could sell his truck. Well, lo and behold, her mom was there also and they told me yes LW could sell the truck, he knows he can sell the truck and he even has the paperwork to do it, he’s just a procrastinator and doesn’t want to bother (lie #1 from LW). Said it would take about 4 months to get things moving and the lawyer was a jerk and wouldn’t return their calls.

I told them that since LW’s mom has power of attorney that perhaps we needed to bring the truck over to her apartment complex and leave it there so they could do something with it...that we were unable to do anything with it here and it was rotting as we speak. They said the apartment complex manager would not allow that to happen. I asked why not. They said they could only have so many vehicles and it would be towed. I told her perhaps if I contacted the police they would allow it to stay considering it was part of a bankruptcy deal. Suddenly, LW’s sister had to go.

I called the apartment complex and they said residents could have as many vehicles as they wanted but they did have to licensed and tagged or they’d towed. Since LW let the insurance drop and has not kept his tag up-to-date it would mean him coughing up money for that and that’s why they don’t want it off our property.

I called the bankruptcy court in the norther part of our state where it took place and was given the name and phone number of LW’s attorney. I called and got right in with the individual who told me that the first time he’d heard from LW was that morning (LW’s mom must have called him and told him to get busy on getting his vehicle taken care of). Other than that he said he’s not received any calls from LW in 7-8 months and that LW’s mom had only called him twice in the whole year and a half since the bankruptcy. (Lie #2). I told him it was conveyed to me that he was not returning their phone calls and that he was not working with them. He said this was not true at all...that he had done everything that was required of him when requested (Lie #3). He told me that LW had called but he wasn’t in the office at the time but asked that I give him the info needed to sell the vehicle. I wrote it all down and thanked him for his time. He was a very nice man.

I sat down and wrote out everything the attorney had said and sent a copy to LW and his mom and cc’d a copy to my husband. I wanted LW to know that I knew what was really going on and that he needed to do something about this truck and not just let it sit here and rot. His attorney was out this past week and will be back in his office next week and suggested LW contact him then about the steps he needs to take to get this truck either sold or returned to creditor (options given to me by his attorney).

I’ve since heard from LW and he’s not upset that I spoke with the attorney and thanked me for trying to help. He knows he has to deal with it. Now, the question is, is he?

Now here’s the question? How much more time do we give him before we move the truck to his mom’s (who has a power-of-attorney) so it will be her and LW’s problem instead of out-of-sight, out-of-mind, which is how LW’s put it in the past. We didn’t mind keeping it while LW was overseas but he’s back now and doesn’t seem to want to be bothered with it.

Situation, #2 is, he gets out of the active Navy in May and hasn’t saved any money for a place to live, isn’t looking for a job and may or may not have any reliable transportation in which to get to a job if he finds one. We’ve talked and talked to him about saving his money and being ready for when that day comes but it’s falling on deaf ears...he admits to us that he has a spending problem and it hasn’t improved since his bankruptcy.

I KNOW...I KNOW...he’s going to want to move in with us and his dad and I have agreed that this isn’t going to happen. If any of our kids fall on hard times because of no-fault of their own, that’s different, and we’d help them where we can and let them live with us until they get back on their feet...but, because LW wants instant gratification instead of saving for what’s important...rent money, utility money, car payments and on top of that he still has his bankruptcy payments that will begin again in June, we’ve decided he needs to dig himself out of this hole he’s dug himself into instead of us rescuing him. He’s telling us that he’s relying on a bonus the Navy is going to give him in July when he enters the reserves to get a place to live. We asked him...’where are you going to live in the meantime?’ He shrugged and said he guessed his truck.

LW has never looked for a bargain...always wants and buys the most expensive, goes from one expensive hobby to the next and ends up selling what he loses interest in later for half the price of what it cost him. He has no self-discipline at all when it comes to money and being responsible.

My husband and I have told him what he needs to do without coming right out and saying “you cannot live with us.” We’re both hoping we don’t have to do that...and I dread the day that I believe it coming when we’re going to have to say that to him.

One of my husband’s son’s is the opposite of LW...he’s hardworking, saves like crazy, has a home and two children. But LW and his sister could not save a dime if their life depended upon it...they take after their Mom.

I guess my question is...are we under any obligation to allow LW to move in with us when he falls on his face in May? How do we tell him he has to dig himself out of the hold he’s in? (Well, we have but it’s like talking to a brick wall). How much farther can he fall before he figures out spending isn’t going to put a roof over one’s head and pay the bills?
_________________________
Dee
"They will be able to say that she stood in the storm and when the wind did not blow her away....and surely it has not.....she adjusted her sails" - Elizabeth Edwards

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#136720 - 01/05/08 04:01 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: Dee]
ladyjane Offline


Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 1761
Loc: Southern Maine, USA
First off, Dee, I'd tell him in advance that he will NOT be moving in with you, even if you think it falls on deaf ears...at least it was told to him...maybe even Larry should be the one to tell him emphatically. As far as the truck goes, I know possession equals ownership in time. I'm not sure how long but I know someone here will know. The only thing is that it's involved in a bankruptcy procedure and so money would have to go somewhere else....guess I'm not too helpful with the legal stuff but certainly a lawyer would be. What I do know is you, or preferably Larry, must tell him now and outright that he cannot and will not be staying with you, just in case he thinks you'll cave and let him. Bailing his butt out of this won't help him at all. He's going to have to fall hard to learn some very valuable lessons. And if he never does, he will live with the consequences as he is somewhat now. Good luck, my friend, and keep us posted!
_________________________
If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane ~ Jimmy Buffett

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#136721 - 01/05/08 09:47 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: ladyjane]
Dotsie Offline
Founder

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 23647
Loc: Maryland
What if you address it now and offer to help him save his money. Eg. - "We know May is coming and we'd like to help you make sure you have a roof over your head. Would you like help with getting a job? Maybe your dad and I could help you go through the want ads?" or

"We're concerned about your financial situation. How about getting a job and turning your check over to us. We'll help you set up a budget and give you what you need to live. That way, we'll be sticking your money away for you so you have it when you need it." Maybe you could even give him an incentive like, "If you save x amount of dollars before May, we'll give you X amount of dollars to show you how much we appreciate your efforts." I know that sounds crazy, but if he ends up moving in, you'll be spending a heck of a lot of money on him, plus you'll have the frustration of having a poor, sad soul in your midst.

Just some thoughts on a positive approach.
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#136722 - 01/05/08 10:22 PM Re: I need your advice
ladyjane Offline


Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 1761
Loc: Southern Maine, USA
Dee, if all of the above doesn't work, I say "tough love." Sometimes with certain "kids" that's all there is. You know better than anyone what you're dealing with. Right?
_________________________
If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane ~ Jimmy Buffett

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#136724 - 01/06/08 02:21 AM Re: I need your advice [Re: ]
Dee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2561
Loc: Alabama
Thanks everyone for your support and words of wisdom. We're still not sure what the best approach to this is. At this point I don't think any of this is going to work...not the tough love nor the paying him to save his money. Have any of you ever listened to Dr. Laura? I don't agree with everything she says but she's tough when it comes to making a man be a man by making him stand on his own two feet. I can hear her saying 'no way' in allowing LW to move in with us (and I agree). I think in the end he'll end up piling in with his mom and sister because they have the same values when it comes to money and responsibilies. I think if he comes to us and asks to live with us we're going to suggest he find a 'room mate' to share an apartment with. That way we won't have to be in the middle of his life and he won't be dependent on us.
What's sad is LW is such a delightful person...he can be funny and a riot to be around...it's this side of him that's his downfall...like an addict he knows he has a problem, but he's not doing anything about it except acknowledging he has a problem. We've suggested financial counseling before but it fell on deaf ears. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
If anyone else has anymore suggestions I'm all ears.
As for the tough love, I had to use that on my 15 year old son 16 years ago...and it turned his butt around in no time. To this day he thanks me for it and says I loved him enough to be tough on him, which is what he needed. I think that's what LW needs...but, he's not my son and he's not 15 years old. Is he going to listen to me and his dad? He hasn't so far. I really don't see that changing.
_________________________
Dee
"They will be able to say that she stood in the storm and when the wind did not blow her away....and surely it has not.....she adjusted her sails" - Elizabeth Edwards

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#136725 - 01/06/08 02:43 AM Re: I need your advice [Re: Dee]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dee, wonder if you'd be willing to contact LWs first sergeant (or Navy equivalent) and inquire if a finance counselor is available to speak w/ LW. In other words, perhaps he could be given a direct order through his chain of command? As a military veteran, thought this might be helpful.

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#136726 - 01/06/08 03:34 AM Re: I need your advice [Re: ]
meredithbead Offline
The Divine Ms M

Registered: 07/07/03
Posts: 4894
Loc: Orange County, California
Dee, your question:
Now here’s the question? How much more time do we give him before we move the truck?
The answer is yesterday.
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#136727 - 01/06/08 04:38 AM Re: I need your advice [Re: meredithbead]
Dee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2561
Loc: Alabama
Thanks Merideth...I think so, too, but that's not going to happen.

MustangGal...hadn't thought about that...not sure what they would do about that if he's not breaking any military laws. I fear we're going to have to deal with him ourselves and give him the cold hard facts of life...he needs to grow up!!
_________________________
Dee
"They will be able to say that she stood in the storm and when the wind did not blow her away....and surely it has not.....she adjusted her sails" - Elizabeth Edwards

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#136728 - 01/06/08 09:29 AM Re: I need your advice [Re: Dee]
Edelweiss Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 4136
Loc: American living in Europe
Dee, You asked: How much more time do we give him before we move the truck to his mom’s

I’d give him 5 days to move the truck

You asked: I guess my question is... are we under any obligation to allow LW to move in with us when he falls on his face in May?

Since LW is 25 you are under no obligation. It’s tough as parents to watch a son or daughter go rock bottom, even if it’s their own fault. We were in a similar situation. We provided the roof and food over our sons head, but nothing else. What finally helped him was his girlfriend, who is now his wife. She didn’t stand for any nonsense, and left him because he couldn’t get his act together. That shook him up enough so that he made a complete turn a about. Now he’s a top manager of the largest commercial real-estate company in Germany.

The funny thing about this is that his girlfriend said all the same things we told him….only he listened to her, not us. So what I’m suggesting here is that maybe he would listen to some other authorities, …possibly from the military?

I think as parents it is important for the offspring to know that they can always come home if they can’t provide for themselves. In your case it’s harder Dee, since he is your step son. What does your husband think?

I’m not such an advocate of tough love. I say go by your gut feeling. If it makes you feel lousier to turn him away then let him come to your home. Then open your doors to him, under one condition. His father gets complete insight in his finances, and helps him organize his budgeting.

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#136729 - 01/06/08 12:27 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: Edelweiss]
Dee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2561
Loc: Alabama
Hannelore...thanks for your advice, too. That's why I posted here...I knew all of you would offer me sound advice.

Larry does not want his son to move in with us because he feels, from past experience, that LW would not change. I disagree about him being my step-son and it being harder because of that. I am of the same philosophy concerning coming home if any of them fall on hard times because of no fault of their own. In fact, LW moved in with us for 2-3 weeks before he went into the Navy and that was just fine. But, we knew that he had a goal and would be moving on. This time is different. He knows he's getting out in May and hasn't done anything in the last year to prepare for it. And he's spending every penny he makes on another hobby instead of spending it towards a vehicle that he already has and could have had repaired and working by now. That's why my husband is so frustrated with him...no common sense and despite the fact that he's talked to him about LW's need to reset his priorities in where his money goes, nothing's changed.

When LW and his Mom lived together and LW bought his first home...he blamed his Mom for not paying the bills when she said she would...despite the fact that his name was on the mortgage and his name was on the utilities. Instead of him coming behind her and checking or doing it himself, he put it out of his mind and spent his money on computer games and expensive exotic handled knives and expensive smoking pipes and expensive colognes and shaving equipment and bought another truck (the one sitting on our property now)...and (do you get my drift?). Then he blamed it on his Mother for losing everything. And his Mother is the same way...instead of paying her credit cards and taking care of her bills, she spent her money in the like manner. So together they functioned well dysfunctionally. When her son lost his home his Mother (50years of age) forced herself onto her daughter (30 years of age) and they continue with the bad spending habits...that's why they live in a one-bedroom apartment. LW's mom keeps saying she's going to move out but she will never save enough money. This is LW's mindset and who he gets it from and my husband believes he's never going to get his son to see reason.
Thanks everyone for the advice...I truly appreciate all of it. Bless you.
_________________________
Dee
"They will be able to say that she stood in the storm and when the wind did not blow her away....and surely it has not.....she adjusted her sails" - Elizabeth Edwards

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#136730 - 01/06/08 02:23 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: Dee]
jawjaw Offline
Da Queen

Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 12025
Loc: Alabama
It sounds like to me that LW is ALL ABOUT ME. A child misbehaves over and over....because they can.

You know I love you so take this in the spirit with which it is intended. Don't be an enabler for LW.

He is 25. What were YOU doing at 25? He is a man. He has served his country. Did he do what he wanted to in the military? I think not. They made his follow the military rules.

Now its time for LW to follow societies rules. If you play, you must pay. With growth of one's self comes responsibilities. If you were a high-wire entertainer and you had a safety net (YOU and YOUR HUSBAND and your home) would you worry about your performance? Nope.

You have to love them enough to let them fall. Call it tough love, call it discipline, call it whatever you want to. He is a man. This is no longer your responsibiity. He isn't hurting, bad off, or anything else. He can work, he can earn a living, he can find a place to stay. It might not be the best in the world, but that's the price he has to pay until he can LEARN and DO better.

You and your husband's job as parents teaching a child are DONE. Now before everybody jumps on me, I didn't say LOVING HIM is done, I said TEACHING him.

It is HIS life now. Let him fall so that he knows how to get back up. Otherwise, you are his legs from now on...are you willing to do that? Doesn't sound like it to me. And I wouldn't be either.

Tell him he has one week to get rid of the truck; otherwise, it is going to the dump. PERIOD. DO NOT BACK UP...DO NOT PASS GO.

I have a friend in a similar situation and I've watched over the years as this child has sucked her dry...mentally, spiritually, and physically. The "child" is 38 now and still doing the same thing. If the parent (my friend) starts to try the tough love on the child, the child suddenly comes down with some disease you've never heard of....uh huh...sure. That child has "almost died" about 22 times since I've known her and she is one of the healthiest people I know. And smartest. She knows just how to pull her Mother's strings. Heart strings...that is.

Love him enough to let him fall. He'll learn to walk again. I promise.

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#136731 - 01/06/08 02:27 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: jawjaw]
ladyjane Offline


Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 1761
Loc: Southern Maine, USA
You've said it all JJ and I agree wholeheartedly. The friend's situation that you speak of at the end of your post is, of course, because she let it happen. Yes, love him enough to let him fall. That is the way it is for many who have had this happen. It's time for the boy to grow up!
_________________________
If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane ~ Jimmy Buffett

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#136732 - 01/06/08 04:24 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: ladyjane]
Edelweiss Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 4136
Loc: American living in Europe
Some young adults just need more help than others. Dee, I know your husband has already decided not to let his son come live with you, but I just want to add a couple more thoughts.

I’m not saying give him everything, but even if he is 25…so what. My kids were still terribly immature at 25, and spent their money on all the wrong things as well.

My husband and I totally overestimated our son. It took us some time to recognize the fact that he needed our guidance in how to budget and get back onto his feet. Now he’s earning more than we are. So helping your child doesn’t mean he will be forever dependent on you.

I think I’m the odd ball in this group, but I believe that if you don’t have family to help pick you up, then you are poorer off than the poorest family that would share their last slice of bread with you.

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#136733 - 01/06/08 04:35 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: Edelweiss]
jawjaw Offline
Da Queen

Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 12025
Loc: Alabama
Agree Hannelore...but helping this 25-year old ADULT, can be done from a distance....in his own place. Help him with a budget, but don't GIVE him anything. That apparently is the problem now. Thus...the truck.

Picking a family member up when they are down is a strong believe of mine as well. But only.....only if they are helping themselves. I will not be an enabler. I love mine too much to help them be a user.

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#136734 - 01/06/08 07:34 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: jawjaw]
Edelweiss Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 4136
Loc: American living in Europe
I see where you're coming from JJ. You know what?..I'm so glad my boys are out of this stage. This is one of the best things about being older.

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#136735 - 01/06/08 07:35 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: Edelweiss]
jawjaw Offline
Da Queen

Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 12025
Loc: Alabama
Amen sistah....same here. It wasn't easy, and after raising boys, there are no surprises left...but Lordy was it EVER worth it, eh?

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#136736 - 01/06/08 11:31 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: jawjaw]
Dee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2561
Loc: Alabama
I was not a marshmellow when it came to tough love and my own sons. My older son was pretty much always responsible, but his little brother, now 31, had to find out about tough love when he was 15. I think I've told this before but when he was 15 he was headed downward in a tailspin and I felt I was losing him. I was a divorced mom raising him alone and it was better than most but yet difficult. John was lying, skipping school, flunking and starting to be mouthy, which I never put up with. One day I'd had enough and made HIM pack up his entire room in boxes (except for his bed, clothes and school books). All the pictures and baseball things came off his walls. Those boxes sat outside his room in the hall so he could see that his life was closed until he straightened up. He didn't go anywhere but school and with me. NO phone calls, NO TV and no life unless I said he could. He had to sit in his room and think about the consequences of lying and skipping school and disrespecting his Mother. It was heartwrenching and I cried at night wondering if I was doing the right thing...I refused to cave and after the various phases John went through in the process...being cool and cocky at first, then angry and letting me know how much he hated me, then crying for sympathy and then finally when those manipulations didn't work...facing his destructive attitude and correcting it. MY kids were taught (or made) to face their problems and deal with them. My husband, Larry, will be the first to tell you that he tried to help his son, LW growing up but all the efforts he made were undone by LW's Mom...and that's became apparent when she moved in with LW after their divorce and only stopped living with him a year and a half ago...So for and for at least six years she showed him that going in debt, not paying his bills and finally losing everything through bankruptcy is the way to live. Yet, LW will tell you he knows he should change but he doesn't...and that after reaching 25 year of age he has nothing to show for it.
I guess I'm just a hard ass when it comes to standing up and being responsible. I had to do it as a divorced woman with two children and I never let myself lose such financial control that I lost everything and to answer your question JJ at 25 I was married with a little boy and pregnant with my 2nd and serving my country in the military.
Bottom line is LW is lazy and doesn't care and when this is all done he's going to expect us to support his butt because he's not doing what he needs to do now.
I would never have tolerated that from my own sons.
I raised my boys to be men and LW's Mother raised him to be irresponsible. Not a thing his dad has told him, nor bankruptcy nor the Navy has changed him, and I think he's going to have to possibly sleep in his car before he wakes up and straightens himself out. Actually, he would not sleep in his car...his Mother would take him in and that's probably what's going to happen.
We agree with you JJ...we do not wish to be enablers for a MAN who refuses to grow up. This is what's called tough love...I know...I had to do it with my son and in the end it paid off and he has often and gladly thanked me for loving him enough to make him face his problem. LW is still blaming his Mother for his spending habits despite the fact that now he's drawing his own military pay check and blowing it on a truck that is worse off than when he bought it. He knows he has bankruptcy payments that start up again after June...but, again, what's he doing to save his money? Nothing. His choice. He needs rent money in 4 months. What's he doing to save for it? Nothing. His choice. He's making choices that are going to affect him and he doesn't care.
I know this sounds tough...and it is...but, that's what we feel we need to do at this point. I hate this...Larry hates this...but, how else is LW going to change if he isn't forced to deal with where he's put himself?
_________________________
Dee
"They will be able to say that she stood in the storm and when the wind did not blow her away....and surely it has not.....she adjusted her sails" - Elizabeth Edwards

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#136737 - 01/09/08 04:13 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: Edelweiss]
Dee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2561
Loc: Alabama
What my husband sent his son via email last night:

Son did you call your lawyer? You need to get something moving on this. The longer it sits out there the worst shape it will get in. I know you have the 78 truck to deal with but take time to call and get it moving.

Dad




What LW sent his dad:

Yea I know. I only have 20 min left on my phone with a week till payday. I will have to see if mom wants to come get me this weekend and I can use her phone. I don't know if the guy is open on the weekend and I think not. I plan to give it back to the dealer or creditor so just got to find out what to do. I know yall just want the thing out of your yard because it is just in the way. I don't care if the thing rotes and I assume you figured that out by now so when I get some minutes I will call or if I can contact him with moms phone.
_________________________
Dee
"They will be able to say that she stood in the storm and when the wind did not blow her away....and surely it has not.....she adjusted her sails" - Elizabeth Edwards

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#136738 - 01/09/08 04:16 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: Dee]
ladyjane Offline


Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 1761
Loc: Southern Maine, USA
Sounds like he's buying time again, Dee
_________________________
If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane ~ Jimmy Buffett

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#136739 - 01/09/08 04:32 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: ladyjane]
Edelweiss Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 4136
Loc: American living in Europe
Dee, how about if you call the dealer and arrange the pickup yourself. The bill goes to your son, of course.

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#136740 - 01/09/08 05:07 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: Edelweiss]
jawjaw Offline
Da Queen

Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 12025
Loc: Alabama
Oh yeah, he's buying time. He is "banking" (no pun intended) on you two sitting there and waiting. Uh huh. Sure is.

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#136741 - 01/09/08 06:14 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: ladyjane]
Dee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2561
Loc: Alabama
My husband sent him a direct email telling him he has until the 1st of Feb or it's going to be towed. We'll see what that does.
_________________________
Dee
"They will be able to say that she stood in the storm and when the wind did not blow her away....and surely it has not.....she adjusted her sails" - Elizabeth Edwards

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#136742 - 01/09/08 06:34 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: Dee]
Dee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2561
Loc: Alabama
And that if it's towed he'll be responsible for the tags and insurance that has to be on it. (he's let all that expire). I'm praying that this will finally get LW to act...I'm standing firm on this one.
_________________________
Dee
"They will be able to say that she stood in the storm and when the wind did not blow her away....and surely it has not.....she adjusted her sails" - Elizabeth Edwards

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#136743 - 01/09/08 06:49 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: Dee]
jawjaw Offline
Da Queen

Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 12025
Loc: Alabama
Go girl! What I think everyone here knows is that you are doing this out of love, and that you want him to take responsibility for his actions. You love him enough to stand firm. I applaud you and your hubby. I know its difficult.

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#136744 - 01/09/08 07:07 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: jawjaw]
Mountain Ash Offline
Member

Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 3027
Dee
you very clearly explained the situation here.Could you write..or send an email asking him to print it out and regard it as a letter.Tell him in bullet points how you see things.
The sooner the better.Write it from his Father and yourself.
Mention his good points but also that for peace of mind you need things clarified.
All the best
Mountain ash

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#136746 - 01/09/08 10:52 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: Edelweiss]
chatty lady Offline
Writer

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 20267
Loc: Nevada
I have to agree with Hannelore on this one, and add to give him:

A HAND UP, NOT A HAND OUT!!!


Edited by chatty lady (01/09/08 10:54 PM)
_________________________
Take a peek at my BLOG:

http://charleen-micheles.blogspot.com/


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#136747 - 01/10/08 01:55 AM Re: I need your advice [Re: chatty lady]
Dee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2561
Loc: Alabama
Thanks everyone for your input...greatly appreciated. It was difficult for larry to do this but he did. And yes, I'm doing this because I care about LW and wish him to be a man who can stand on his own two feet...not a mama's boy who expects everyone to cater to him. So far we have not heard from him. I'm sure he's read his email and is wondering how to handle his dad's direct response to him. It's not something he's used to getting from his dad.
Larry and I both agreed today that we're not going to be the holder of anyone else's 'things' while they figure out what to do with it. We've learned our lesson.
I'll keep ya'll up to date about what happens next.
_________________________
Dee
"They will be able to say that she stood in the storm and when the wind did not blow her away....and surely it has not.....she adjusted her sails" - Elizabeth Edwards

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#136748 - 01/10/08 05:53 AM Re: I need your advice [Re: Edelweiss]
gims Offline
Member

Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
If it's alright, I'd like to add to Hannelore's side of thinking...
People like this don't usually fall, not totally. They seem to be able to find others that will "keep them standing"... I say this because I have a brother in his late fifties that could bare the initials LW. He goes from party to party - family, friends, friends of friends, friends of family - it makes me sick. When my mom finally kicked him out of her home four years ago, he made the circuit. Now he's virtually back at my mom's home. These types of indiviuals have a certain mentality. In my opinion, he needs a mentor, possibly someone outside the family. Letting him fall may not be the answer. Keeping tabs on him might be, and that may include certain contributions to his welfare. Give him $25-$100 for the truck in your yard... don't give him cash. Instead, go pay one of his bills with the money, then sell the truck for more than you gave him from it.... you should be able to get that much for the motor alone (that is if by skimming the post I got the full understanding of what you've shared).

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#136749 - 01/10/08 09:16 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: gims]
Dee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2561
Loc: Alabama
Gimster,
We cannot sell the truck. It's part of LW's bankruptcy and has to be approved for sale and amount by the courts.
This is our stance on the truck issue: His problem. He fixes it. Period.
As for his spending habits: His problem. He fixes it.
Period.
I was taught in this life that there are choices we make and consequences to those choices. LW is making choices knowing they are the wrong ones. I don't think he needs us to buy his truck and pay his bills for him...I think he needs a swift kick in the keester and to grow the heck up. And he needs counseling to find out why he's using money as a crutch for what's really going on in side him.
I'm still an advocate for tough love and here's why.
Just before Larry and I got married his daughter came to us wanting money (she has the same spending problem her brother has). She was about to be thrown out of her apartment and her mother (Larry's ex) was screaming Larry owed his daughter money. Evidently, Larry's daughter had been living with him for a period of time when he was married the 2nd time and because his daughter could not save, he was putting money back for her. He'd saved for her about $1200. The woman Larry was married to at the time took the money and left IOU's in Larry's name at which Larry felt responsible. Needless to say Larry divorced that woman and never saw a dime of the money she'd taken from Larry's daughter. I personally pulled out $1200 from my account and we paid 3 months rent for his daughter and the rest went for groveries. The ONLY reason I did that was to get Larry's nasty ex off Larry's back...looking back it was a dumb move, but hind site.... Anyway, has his daughter learned her lesson? No. We counseler her and offered to get her a professional advisor...Did she? No. Has she? No. Will she? No. Where is she now? Living in a one-room apartment. Her mom? Moved in with her because she can't handle money, either. LW's next in line if he doesn't change.
So, even when you do the right thing in helping someone, it still comes down to them doing the right thing.
I stand by tough love...in my experience it has worked over giving a handout.
I'm not all mean and staunch. If any of our grown children were having problems at no-fault of their, we would be the first ones to help them...but, LW (almost 27) and Danielle (almost 31) don't care to save or plan anything except for what can they buy next.
_________________________
Dee
"They will be able to say that she stood in the storm and when the wind did not blow her away....and surely it has not.....she adjusted her sails" - Elizabeth Edwards

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#136750 - 02/03/08 10:25 PM Re: I need your advice [Re: Dee]
Dee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2561
Loc: Alabama
UPDATE!!!!
The truck is gone. I did it. I stuck to my guns and Larry and I drove it over to LW's brother's house yesterday. To make a long story short...I gave LW no more time and no options. He kept stalling for more time and I sat down one night and wrote him a heart-to-heart email and talked to him as if he were my own son...I talked to him about what it means to be a responsible adult, to clean up ones messes instead of leaving it for one's parents to do, especially at the age of 26, and I talked to him about some other things that I felt needed to be addressed concerning his dad. I knew I was taking a risk of him more or less telling me to MYOB, but he didn't. Two days before I sent the email to LW, his dad sent him an email asking him when he'd be moving the truck...Larry's always let his kids call the shots and it's been a learning experience for Larry to step up and maintain control of this situation, but in the end, he did and I'm so proud of him. Yesterday, LW met us at his brother's house and we spent a few minutes with him. He was fine and now the truck is his brother's problem. Hopefully, it won't sit another year before it's finally dealt with.
It was difficult for me to keep having to push my husband to do the right thing and it was hard for me to step in and finally explain to LW my views on responsibility and being a man about one's bills. He's still obsessed in the old truck he bought and despite all the money he's poured into it, it still will not run. And I also explained (gently) to him his dads and my views about when he leaves the military and if he hasn't saved his money in order to secure an apartment. My husband says from what he's been able to see that it's going to be a long time before LW gets his act together concerning spending money he doesn't have and the bankruptcy didn't teach him anything. JJ, like you, I'm a believer of tough love when it's called for and it was necessary in this situation because had we not insisted, nothing would have been done and the truck would still be sitting outside rusting and LW not caring.
If nothing else comes from this I know that LW understands that at least when it comes to me and his dad that we'll be fair with him but we're not afraid to press him to do the right thing when necessary.
Thanks for everyone's advice...it was greatly appreciated. I can always count on support when I come here...and I'm sure, as a step-mom, that I'll be back.
_________________________
Dee
"They will be able to say that she stood in the storm and when the wind did not blow her away....and surely it has not.....she adjusted her sails" - Elizabeth Edwards

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