I was just reading through some of the thread about taking a break from this forum, and felt this website might be of interest:

http://www.womensinspiration.com/index.html

Please do not misunderstand that I feel there are women oppressing women here. I found the website very informative, I now have a heightened interest in understanding more about women's relations.

After you have checked the website, I would appreciate if you would share your thoughts.

i agree with what's said there, but I don't see a solution to this problem anytime in the near future. There's a whole slew of reasons for this, and I couldn't begin to adequately describe them in a reasonable amount of time.

We're not familiar with you.

Please explain a tiny bit about yourself. Most of the other women here know each other's general background.

As for women oppressing other women...I guess it depends if it's prolonged harrassment. Then there are women who like to exercise control...like some of us have mothers who might abit controlling, etc. But where does one draw the line, if the the oppressor woman has also given well in other areas to oppressee??

Oppression I tend to use for treating woman as if she has no legal rights, when in fact she does have such rights. And part of that right ...is her LIFE. Her right to be alive, safe and healthy.

Bullying is a form of oppression...when carried over into adulthood, the bullyer becomes a controlling queen bee..

But I will stick to the right, specifc phrase to describe a type of unjust behaviour on the type of violation. Not use the word "oppression" which is very general...and can trivialize a woman who is beaten physically badly /enslaved sexually vs. a woman who is having a tough time in office politics.

I do not have a bullying mentality so I do not understand those who do...I will stand up for my beliefs and I was forced to fight back a woman or two who thought the could bulldoze their way over me (actually, I let the legal system do this which brought them down quite a few pegs...gave me great satisfaction after being beaten emotionally by them)...but to be the one to bully or push around...it's just not me.

Just my opinion...

I don't get the sense of women-oppressing-women on BWS. "Oppression" connotes deliberate effort.
I do know w-o-w exists, tho. I've fallen victim to it, myself.

Instead of oppression, I see the inability to meld personalities, which in my mind is different. Some women need to be stroked or have attention all the time, some every so often, some not at all. Each, if not taught better, doesn't understand the need of the other.
When two need the same, at the same time, and one gets while the other doesn't, it generally presents a problem.
Also, when one gets excessive attention for a time, then it dries up, they feel withdrawal symptoms - which I understand is natural.
It happens often that no more than one can be served at one time. The one doing without can feel slighted - most suredly at the worst of times, compounding feelings.
That's when women who have learned to recognize the strain and the cause, and who muster the courage to mediate, are most valuable... at least their learned talents are.
OK, that is just my opinion.
The website you've shared is great and I've put it in my favs. Thanks...

To add to gimster's remarks, particularily if a woman appears to be harrassing another woman verbally...some people just have far more direct personalities..tendency to say things based on how they feel instead of stopping and rephrasing it more nicely.

I do participate in another all-women's internet forum and it is devoted to cycling with a focus on women. http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?p=277970#post277970 If you read the profiles of some of these women..they are tough and quite a number of them are...boomers! And some are in your face with questions.

And yea, some of them might ride off and not wait around for you. And repeatedly do this. That could be viewed as a minor form of put-down and adult bullying. I call it just stupid cliquishness, arrogance and unwillingness to learn about others outside your own level of competence for whatever skill you maybe good at.

I do seriously think some women in the workplace really take useful constructive comments to improve their work performance, far too personally. I know this because I have had to conduct work performance appraisals on other women. Some women cannot take any suggestions to improve...they get all flustered and hurt...no matter how nicely one has communicated to them with lots of generous deadlines to improve. Yet the other person, appraisee might feel "oppressed"/harrassed???

I still think real oppression ..is treating women and girls as if they have no legal rights, when in fact they do. And this translates well for mental harrassment where the person breaks down...but only if the person has not exercised their right to have counselling, psychological support services.

There are unintended tendencies amongst a group of women exclude other women. It could be simply the nature of topics and different approaches. The trick is that to prevent such insularity that the group remains committed to seriously welcome others and their constructive opinions that don't meet groupthink.

Isn’t it odd that the written comment from women, whom we’ve never met before can get under our skins in an amazingly hurtful way? Sorry to say, I’m no exception to that either. I just wonder why is that so? Why should we even care?

Maybe we are all here online to find what we don’t have in real life?

As for myself I can tell you why I’m here.

a) I love being connected to my home country; the lingo, the jokes, our common pasts, etc.
b) My entire family, except my DIL’s, are masters at interrupting me when I talk. It’s an uplifting feeling to be able to complete a sentence on the forum without some powerful male voice butting in and taking over.
c) I used to have a wonderful group of girlfriends, but since our move, and since I’ve opened my own business, I don’t have that anymore. This forum has fulfilled that gap so well, that I have been neglecting trying to make new friends. (not good, I know.)

What am I trying to say here? Oh, yes…maybe it’s just all about us. Maybe we’re seeking in this forum the respect and recognition that we so desire in real life. And if we don’t get it here either…it’s like a confirmation of what is happening throughout our lives. I’m sure this doesn’t apply to those that have wonderful stable marriages, perfect happy families and tons of friends…I’m sure they aren’t the sensitive ones. It’s those that don’t; who need a bit more TLC.

Ps...Gimster and Orchid did you major in Psychology? Excellent points.

I cannot get the site NY woman
it wont load for me.
Mountain ash

Hannelore, I can empathize with the need to connect with your home country when living abroad. You wrote: "Maybe we are all here online to find what we don’t have in real life?" For me, this community enhances and enriches what I have in real life. What I learn here enlightens me so that it helps me grow in real life: with relationships, with faith, with marriage, etc. You wrote: "Maybe we’re seeking in this forum the respect and recognition that we so desire in real life." That is well said for some. From this virtual site, I'm able to recognize the respectful relationships (or not) in real life. But I understand now when you say it is sort of a substitute for some for what they may not get in real life. NY started this thread by mentioning the "break from the forum thread." I'm trying to figure out the correlation between that thread and oppression. It's like comparing apples and oranges. I think that thread may be understood in the context of more than one post, and in the context of personality, perception, and behavior versus oppression of women. In the broadest sense off the top of my head I think oppression of women has to do with the deliberate, ingrained, and perpetual form of withholding and/or destroying equal rights for everyone. IMO, PL

Perhaps a bystander sees most of the game.It would be an idea to ask the poster.She could then bring a fresh idea.
Mountain ash

I don't think that the word oppression would be an accurate word to use for this group of women. I think that one of the realities of this type of community is that we are a large, diverse gathering of women who come here from such a diversity of backgrounds, with different needs and expectations, with unique areas of woundedness and sensitivities, and it's sometimes very difficult to determine people's sacred grounds, boundaries and tone of communication. We do overstep, but I would daresay it's rarely intentional, and we do hurt one another, but moreso (IMO) because we can't see the person's facial expressions or eyes or hear the inflections in the person's voice, so we're left to interpret the words through our own unique translation process - which is coloured and entrenched in our unique history, woundedness and experience.

This community could not possibly exist the way it does without forgiveness, and a willingness to listen and ask for clarification when we're unsure of exactly what's been said or why or in what tone of voice it's been said.

I think that most of the mistakes made here are unintentional, and due to a combination of mistrust/misinterpretation of the poster's tone and intention, unclear boundaries and the unique translation process that each one of us uses.

New people might be particularly vulnerable because there's a period of time when nobody knows how all three of those factors work - the new poster doesn't know the culture and general boundaries of the community and we don't know her's - until it's too late and someone has unknowingly already trespassed beyond that person's comfort zone.

It amazes me how well we do get along and how care-full we are in general to protect and uplift one another. Some do fall through the cracks, and each will have their own reasons for not staying...the reality is that we will never be able to be all that everyone needs us to be - we are all just ordinary women wrestling with the same daily struggle to make our way through to becoming the best we can be and bringing whatever tidbits of wisdom, encouragment, hope and support that we are capable of bringing to the table.

It simply won't be enough for some - for others it will be the bread of life.

the eloquence of our eagle xxoo

How long does it take you Eagle-heart to write this up after mulling over it..?

You continue to amaze to cut through the clutter of communicative labrinyths with such a deft hand. It's like seeing a sequoia tree in the middle of rainforest jungle so thick.

For these kinds of thread, and especially when speaking with someone who is deeply wounded, I stop, take a deep breath and pray before I write even one word.

Sometimes it takes a few minutes, sometimes it takes hours, sometimes I have to sleep on it. And sometimes words never do come, in which case I take that to mean that I'm not meant to respond.

My heart and soul are committed to upholding the goodness of this community and the dignity/well-being of each woman here. Sometimes the words come out jagged and/or the thought process comes out mangled because of whatever physical or emotional state I'm in (i.e., grief, fatigue, head-cold), but I can guarantee that 99.99% of the time, my response comes from a profound care, love and desire to help, nurture and encourage both the individual woman and the community at large.

Sharon
you would be the friend who would instinctivly know what to say when someone would visit with a problem.This is a gift.
I agree about body language being absent.
I do however treasure real life interaction.

I write of SISTERHOOD from my heart, now we hear of oppression, sorry but I don't see oppression here. No, we do not always agree with one another but try to be open in our dialogue with each other...

OPPRESSION: means to govern in a cruel or arbitrary way, or to weigh heavily upon...Nope, doesn't fit here at BWS at all!

No, Chatty, it doesn't. This whole thing has gotten blown way out of proportion. I do not see oppression here either. Never have. Like you said, we don't all always agree. I've seen some political indifferences and some heated conversations on different topics. But, I have never seen deliberate cruelty, or harassment of anyone. I think the person who posted the link on oppressed women is fairly new in here, read that one thread and took it the wrong way. I think she thought she was helping. If she reads further, I'm sure she will see what we see as well.

We are not a group of oppressed women. We're not cruel or mean spirited in here.

Amen

As I said, NY, I thought you meant to help. I was afraid you read one thread and got a totally wrong feeling for this forum. I'm glad that was not the case. I love your blog.

Hi NY, if I can jump in here, for me, I was not offended so much as confused, and I am glad you clarified. Thank you for popping in to be clear. I am interested in your pic (why are they called Avatars?) to me it looks like a hippie chick dancing at a Grateful Dead concert or at Woodstock. However, my once perfect eye sight is not so clear these days. Your alter ego as you said?

Oh my goodness, NY Woman, that is so incrediably true! Women DO oppress other woman all of the time! A sisterhood is the last thing on most womens minds!

I have worked with woman all of my life. Dancers, Models, and in production. Producers are business minded and they, too, are oppressing towards each other! They have no problem running over each other one day and saying hello to their victim the next!

I just posted about it on my site.

I believe women can do a much better job of opening doors for other women. If we have a "connection," that will help another woman, why not share it?
If we have knowledge that might help another woman, why not share it?
Do we have to cling to what is ours with all our claws? Do we have to be almost afraid of one another to feel safe?
No.
We can be friends, comrades, sisters and REALLY mean it. We don't trust each other enough at all. We are led into competition by comparing ourselves to others and from there it is down hill.

This is a major hard pill for me to swallow. When I am in production I say in my first staff meeting, "You will NOT put one another down and work for me." "You will NOT sabotage one another and work for me."

I would not say it if it had not happened SO many times before my eyes.

My Gawd, if I had a quarter for every woman who tried to block my way I would have enough to forget about saving money! It's bad out there, girls and if you work with a lot of women, it shows like a beacon! The men sit back and watch us do it! It's a sad truth I am not afraid of!

Dotsie attempts here to do the opposite, to create a group of women who HELP one another. This is why I stay here.

Can't we all get along?

Dancer9

Oh Eagle, thank you for sharing your journey to trust in this community. You have been very honest, especially in stating the lesson that you learned that you "had no right to do that." I had a sense of trust from the beginning. Only once did I not trust another. (Funny how that happened after spending a week with my parents!) . I learned that when I trust, the one I am trusting is trusting me to trust her. By me thinking that she had ill-intent, I hurt her. We since kissed and made up. Only once do I know of that I have not been trusted, and that hurt, so I've learned from both sides of the same coin, so to speak. Trust is golden. I've been on other sites with wounded women, as a support to those who suffered abuse. I could not take how trust could not develop, even though I was in that place of distrust some time ago. At some point, for personal and spiritual growth, it is a matter of "dare to trust." On the other hand, as you say, I don't find women in the real world that I am so open with. Being open is vulnerable, and I don't always want to be at risk. Eagle flew home to this nest of women. L, PL

I have to take this slightly off-course, just briefly, to tell a story about not trusting someone. This was someone very significant. We didn't get along for many years, and that caused significant ripples within the family. I kept bringing it to prayer, and finally one day, the answer came: "you keep treating him as if he's your enemy. Start treating him as if he's NOT out to get you." It was hard, but I did, I stopped going into his home with my defences armed and ready, and I stopped reacting to him as if everything he said or did was a deliberate intent to hurt me. The change was amazing and almost immediate. I was stunned to realize that once I allowed myself to trust that his intentions were just like mine - to try and get along - we did get along. He paid me a beautiful compliment yesterday, something I could not have imagined hearing a year or so ago.

It opened my eyes to all the other encounters and circumstances that I enter into with my defences up and my mind firmly convinced that they're out to get me. In fact, nobody is out to get me (well, some say that just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you - but I choose now to believe that they're not), and most people are just as scared of confrontation and hostility as I am. Daring to trust is a powerful healer - opens doors and allows the other to be trustworthy.

I agree, Eagle Heart, that this place is a home and the women here are extraordinary. I, for example, had a personality difference with one person as will happen in families, after all, as we say on stage, "You can't be loved by everyone!

I wanted to say that this place has given me the opportunity to ask and understand women that are different from me. I am enjoying that so!

A dancer and a singer do not talk. Before you know it, you do not know how to express yourself to others. It happens to all dancers so we appear to float about and not make friends with anyone. The truth is that we don't know how to play a game, a fun one, to know someone and we don't know the complex thing that is relationships. We only know to speak the truth and have spent our entire lives in a dance studio, "shutting up," and learning to talk through our bodies. It would be easy to SHOW you, for example, how i feel. But to tell, I need help.

This forum gives me that help. Although my posts can be unusual, I'm guessing, at least they listen to them and post back as if I am one of you all.

This is why I returned to this forum with its open minded women who chose to trust me. For this, I a blessed.

dancer

NYWoman, I enjoyed the link you provided. Very interesting reading. I could identify with the definitions and saw some previous co-workers and behaviors. It was so real I looked for their name to be beside the description. Uncanny. I believe this is very much alive, sadly.

Some people feel they are "oppressed" so they become the Oppressor! Do you agree? They actually act towards others what they dislike about themself the most. I'm not saying its right, just that it happens.

Does that make sense? Or have you witnessed this? Also, some people LOVE being the victim and are comfortable in their misery, so if you try to lift them up, they will become aggressive and again...the oppressor. Just my experience. Thanks for posting this interesting link!

Good food for thought.

JJ, that's exactly how I see it and agree 100%. How many times I've befriended an agressor (or oppressor) and found them to be more scared and insecure than anything else. So they act out in bullying mode. Then they find someone that reminds them of themselves too and oppress them. You see this in the animal kingdom sometimes.

NYWoman, no offense taken by you post, as some others here I was confused as to your meaning. Except for right here in BWS "women oppressing women" runs rampant through the world. I have always used another word however besides oppression...To me the word has proven to be JEALOUSY in most cases. Women who are jealous of other women can seem extremely oppressive, especially in the work place. Sad too, because its an old boys world, still in 2008, and we women need to stick together. Great website!!

Orchid,
I've said it many times and you are right, the internet allows those who have very different lives come together and know one another a bit and that is good.

I dare say that I would not have met most of the women on this forum through work or home. I know that most here would have walked by me without a thought, or, perhaps, a judgement!

"Knowing a dancer," which I said on another thread, is so hard to do, and hurts those of us who dance and live in that life. We do not talk, and are trained not to talk but to express ourselves through a body. We do not change our faces like actresses and we give a good argument for making our own botox, we are so straight faced.

Through this medium, I can get to know those who would not otherwise reach out to me and speak to me! It is refreshing to me.

How would we all do in "real life?" I was a member of a support group once for those of us with PTSD at Sierra Tucson. We were all SO different, in mannerisms, dress, ideas and lifestyles. We were close in the process we were in and those boundaries fell away. For the time that we were there, we could know each other on a deep, deep level. A 300lb. Lawyer was my "partner," in treatment and we would not have know each other privately at all! She was gay, I am not, she is lawyer, I have an entertainment attorney, she does not shop where I do.

Still, we forged a bond so deeply that we stay in touch! We know each other so well from honest, deep conversation that I have a good friend I would not have.

That is the best hope for a site like this one. That those who are very different and may have just judged one another, take a risk and make a friend,

dancer

Eagle Heart,
I know what you are saying but for me, trusting as quickly as I do has given me SO many problems. I am first to trust and believe a person has good intentions. I cannot tell you how many times I've been burned.

My agent, my husband, and my son's all know that "Dancer will believe it," of anyone who is giving me a story. When they see right through someone, I cannot see it without them pointing it out.

I have been used for money, contacts, drawing people to businesses or to parties that are for business contacts, and all of my positive energy.

It is said I am born without a "skin." This is probably true.

dancer