I sit here on my computer, effortlessly keeping my emotions in check. I received a call about an hour ago. It was one of my siblings, calling to give me the information that my dad is non-responsive. I don't know how many of you have been taking mental notes on me, my family and the B/S that has been going on... and, esp. how hurt I've been through and by it all.
Just let me say, because my heart has hardened, I'm numb (non-responsive, too, in a living way).... but, I'm expecting it to break loose. I will need you when, AND IF, it does. I know you will be there.
Maybe me writing this is my way of dealing... letting the universe know, by sharing with you, how much I don't care - out of my position of despair, being hurt, lack of empathy, hey, and disconnect - that's what I've done, disconnected from family. I am that - alone... a horrible place to be when your father is dying.

Oh, Gims, I am so sorry. It sounds as if you are feeling a little guilty that you're not feeling anything. I know I did when my Mom died. Mostly what I felt was relief. I cared for her for the several years that she lived here before she died and was told I wasn't compassionate, by her, because I didn't commiserate with her 'poor me' attitude. Your feelings, or non feelings, are what they are - there is no right or wrong. There may come a time when you do feel grief, or sadness, or anger, and that's fine. If you don't, that's fine, too. Either way, you know we are all here for you.

Gims, sent you a PM and meant every word...I am here too, whenever you need a friend.

Gims, I am sorry to hear of what you are going through. I think it does help in some way to share our feelings here.

Gims, my heart's with you tonight...there's so much I wish I could articulate, but what it amounts to is that we're here for you. You KNOW that I/we care deeply for/with you...hang on to us, lean against our love. And keep breathing, my sister, keep breathing...breathe in our love, breathe out whatever needs to be out...breathe in our strength, breathe out...

Gims, I don't have any brilliant advice but you know we're here for you.

Gims, I have you in my thoughts and prayers.

Gims, I, too, am here for you whenever you need me. You have the complete right to whatever you are feeling, so just feel what you feel.

My heart is with you, and so is my love.

Gims
people respond to life events in varied ways and all are ok.
So glad you turned to this place where we all care how you are.
"This to shall pass"...take care of yourself.
Mountain ash

Gims, I agree with Mountain Ash. We all feel and greive in the same way. I suspect I will feel relief when my parents pass, they did not raise me. Whatever you feel, when you feel it, is "right."
Best and I'm sorry for your pain,
Dancer

Gims, I'm praying that you can feel at peace about whatever your choices are concerning your dad's eventual passing and the relationships with your family. Think peaceful thoughts. Try not to agonize over anything. Wondering how you're doing today...

Another sibling called earlier today to let me know she had just come from the hospice house and that she thinks Daddy knew who she was. I asked her (she's a nurse) what the term 'non-responsive' means, then. She said it has to do with his bodily functions... organs will slowly and methodically shut down. Some of his already have. He can't eat, drink, or even speak, because his throat muscles are uncontrollable.

So, I followed her visit with one of my own with the understanding that he can recognize us if we can get his attention. I just came from there. While one my 'the' sisters was there, along with an uncle and his lady friend, Daddy didn't seem to know who I was. But, the Uncle and his friend left, and my sister went to take her ritual drag, so I got up close and personal. I was able to get his attention, and asked if I could have a hug. He tensed his shoulder toward me... I knew that was a hug. I told him I loved him (after making a booboo), and let him go back to sleep.

I so appreciate the support you all are giving me for the 'feelings' I am experiencing. I do feel guilt.... but because the situation is so complicated and I can't rise above the adversity enough to damper the feelings and give every available ounce of good regard to my parents' last days.

My fear is that my hurts are keeping me from doing and acting the way I want to remember. This tide will recede and I'll be left with memories. I don't want to be making any more bad ones. I have enough of those. If we do have the right to feel any given way, based on our perceptions and understandings of our life events, where will our pardon lie when the whole story gets told? We are all in this together. (I'm talking on a universal plane, now.) I can't apply that philosophy (even though it is deep rooted in me) in this family situation. I've been burned too many times... I have a fear of being burned again. So, I've withdrawn. It's the easiest (and feels like the most self-preserving) option for me. Yet, in my withdrawn state, I still live the hurt. OK, now I'm crying... it seems so hopeless.

Thank you, dear ones, thank you.

Oh Gims, giant hugs are coming your way from ALL of us here. Do you feel it? Close your eyes, take a few deep breaths, and then allow yourself to feel all of us wrapping you in our arms. There! We're with you no matter what.

K

Yonuh, it sounds like you understand so well. Thank you! I'm banking on it being justifiable to feel any which way. You're a smart cookie, so you're words contribute some mighty fine support!!!

chatty, you are such a doll! thank you for being a friend. God bless you, enormously!

Lynn, this IS the only place I have to get the feelings (non-feelings) out. The rest of the world is too busy, and I don't want to be a bother. Here, one can post, and whether a response comes or not, the feelings are expressed/released. It IS therapeutic.((((hugs))))

EH, I'm breathing, and gathering in all the sweet, sweet sentiments of you gals... luv ya, EH.

Meredith, I know better... you, of all of us, are brilliant... I appreciate your being here!!!

chick, thank you from the bottom of my heart. Prayers have grown thin around here... our primary prayer warrior is one of the "medically incarcerated" parents. I will take and appreciate each and every prayer sent this way!!! (((HUGS)))

anno, It's comforting to read how you and yonuh think certain feelings are alright... knowing what you both have been through and what you are still experiencing. I have such high regards for the both of you... that adds more weight. thank you, too, for being here.

anne327, I've disconnected because it's the easy way out for me. I fought way too long to stay 'in.' I know that you know how a hospice stay can play out. It would be so nice to have someone like you - strike the 'someone like' and make it 'you' - next door, esp. since you have the perspective of being an only... each of my family is dealing with a spread (ten layers deep) of differing temperaments. Not a good thing. I'll listen to anything and everything you have to say, and take it to heart.

I've come to the point that I don't want to feel anything, anymore.... rather live a numb-founded life.
But, then I 'feel' so cared for by all of you, that I decide differently. Thank you MA, you are another whose wisdom I long to hear.

gims,
You are in my prayers! You have every right to feel whatever, complexities come along. Friends here understand. I know that.
And all of us care about you. Hang in. And hang on. And feel all the love boomers here send your way!

OH Dancer, I hear ya. My parents feel like strangers to me.... but, because I have found out so much over the past four drama filled years, I have a new understanding of why I was treated the way I was. It doesn't make it easier to accept, but it does give it a different hue. I hope you aren't at war with your feelings when it does come time for your parents to pass on to glory. I understand yonuh's relief - a reprieve from the burden and responsibility that comes with caring for a loved one, esp. one that appears to be an ingrate.
Your case is similar, but not the same, as mine. Because of that, I say... I hope it's not a feeling of relief for you... maybe an 'oh, well'... but then again, as you all have expressed so clearly, each feeling is acceptable.(((Hugs)))

dotsie, I willingly accept your prayers for peace. Really that's all I want... peace in my heart and mind, as well as in my family. And, I'd like to have it before my parents pass.
The battle in my heart and head often keep me from thinking anything but tumultuous thoughts, a long range from peaceful thoughts. But, I will give it every effort. Today - life sucks, because nothing, absolutely nothing, is in our hands.

Kathy.... giant hugs back to you!!!! YES, I DO FEEL IT!!!
I think so highly of each of you ladies, here, and OH IF I COULD JUST PUT INTO WORDS HOW MEANINGFUL your kind words ARE!!! Thank you kathy!!!

OK, I'm bawling NOW!!!!
No sooner do I get a post composed and sent, than another of you wonderful people pop in!
Jabber, I just caught yours. Thank you, too, for adding your sentiments... greatly appreciated sentiments!!! Knowing you all are here makes it easier to hang in and hang on - and I definitely am feeling the boomer love!!!! (HUGS)

Remember Gims, day or night, you can call me, collect if need be. I am use to being called in the middle of the night, and have a great cheap phone plan. You never need to be alone, someone is always here and ready to listen. As my PM said, anytime, day or night!!!

be strong, or not, gims, it is all about you, really. your father will go to a better place and be pain-free and you will live in this world, as you said, where we all belong together.
some of us are not as close as others but, yes, we all have our meaning to our lives.
you have done, it seems, from what you have said, a great job of handling this.
Please hang in there and know that I, as well as all of us here are feeling with you and can feel your posts.
Dancer

What can I add to this gims? You know that I know some of your stuff due to our exchanges out of the forum. I'm aching for you and want you to know that I'm here also. You've already received good advice for this time....breathe deeply, don't agonize over the past issues and feel all of our love from here. We're here always. Please feel our warm hugs from all over the world!

Dearest Gims

I can feel your hurt and sadness, combined with the understanding that you are loved, through the posts on this list. I don't know the background or history, and know that you are a perfect Amazing who gets to feel, or not feel, as it fits the moment in time. Guilt is such a nasty place to live...it seems like no matter what happens, there is some of that attached. My prayer is that you will be kind to yourself, gentle with who you are and where you are at this time, and treat yourself with the precious gift of kindness that I feel you carry within you.

Sometimes "numbing out" is the only way we can walk through what we are facing. I've done it more times than I care to either count or admit to. And please know I would be happy to listen if that would be of service to you...like another poster said, I'm used to getting calls at all hours and my number is yours if you want it. You need but ask ...

I will keep you in my prayers and hope you feel that light energy and big squishy hugs I'm sending...

Meredith, is that to suggest a crown of thorns is for a martyr, or in some way sacificing one's own true feelings for the sake of making another feel better? I don't know. Gims, when I read this I sense that you are feeling conflicted. Conflicting feelings can co-exist. There are no "shoulds" except those shoulds that are imposed on us by society and religion. Honor thy father and thy mother. In my opinion, you have done and are doing what you need to do in order for you to be at peace at some time. You have honored him by visiting, by leaning over, by being nearly face to face, lifeline to lifeline, and by breathing the word of love. Feelings are universal: we all experience love hate joy despair. But our frame of reference for the emotions cause us to have different perspectives on the same events. That is why we grieve in different stages, no one grieves in the exact same pattern as someone else. This is not a math formula. It is subject to interpretation. Perhaps his death will not be a relief, a resolution, or a deathbed reconciliation. However, Gims, you are a person who is seeking peace, and one way or another, your efforts will come to the fruition in terms of peace of mind that you have done your best in adverse conditions. You have survived, and in moments of stress, you can turn to a coping mechanism that worked for you before: withdrawal and numbness. Perhaps your seeking peace and asking quesionts at this time will eventual lead you to open your heart, and feel, because when you are numb to the adversity, you become numb to the good that comes your way too. Sharing on this space with your boomer sisters is a great great method of coping, because you find like-minded and like-spirited women here that care about you and support you. Life and death is never black and white, is it? I am learning to not anticipate my feelings because I have learned that I may not be able to control all the events that cause the feelings. I mean, I have gone to an event to expect to be "on guard" with my feelings, only to have something completely different evolve. I'm glad you come here to share. L, PL

My last little comment was a serious statement tempered with a joke. (And 2 seconds after I posted, I wondered if anyone would get it.) Princess, you got the serious part although probably not the joke.

Gims, in no way am I suggesting that you want to be a martyr. But in some aspects, you have elements of that. I'm thinking of those guys who wore and bled from abrasive metal shirts, because they didn't think they were worthy. Intellectually you realize your value, but emotionally you're still torn.

BTW, you're pm box is full.

Meredith, you made me laugh. Not only would it muss the hair, it'd create major headaches. Everything you posted makes sense. But, I do love them - my whole family - that's why it hurts so much, I think. If I didn't, it'd be easy for me to just blow them all off without another thought.

Lynn, I'm feeling conflicted in that I don't know how to feel. I've seen, heard, learned and experienced so much these past (going on) five years, my whole person has changed. I don't know if I like what I'm becoming. I hope you are right about finding peace... I would love to find it before my parents pass.
*Speaking of conflict, I even find one day's feelings and/or thoughts can collide with the next, and then come back around after that.... no telling what I've posted one day, to contradict myself another. You all will just have to overlook my craziness, if that's the case.

Let me clear up any indications I might have given that I do much, if anything. I don't... not anymore. I've released myself from the self delegation of what became (last year) an over-involvement. I've not seen my mom for four weeks. Had I not gone to see Daddy Friday, it would be a month, or better, of not seeing him. I do have occasional bouts of guilt over not helping, but after what I went through, I just can't. I know that needs explanation, but (again) this is too public a place. I am not a 'good' person. I am being very selfish in guarding myself, becoming a borderline recluse. I see my DH, my children and their children, and one aunt. But, that's it (outside of library, post office and grocery store employees). It's easier for me this way... at least, for the time being.

I will say, after the responses on this thread, I experienced a very strange day. I have never, ever, in all my life felt such ... what word can I use? darn, there isn't one... because I felt love, hugs, caring, understanding, support, listening spirits, sincerity, frankness and honesty...and so much more, all rolled into - 'agape'?... at my age and to have never experienced something like this, well.... what's it like in person?
But, my day was full of self-reckoning because of it. I saw things so differently.... bizarre!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(chatty, I still have your number)
lj, meredith and lynn - what wonderful follow-ups to the rest of this, MY!, thread. Ya'll don't mind me claiming it, do ya? I feel a bit feisty... ((((HUGS TO YOU ALL - sneaking in a special one for Mountain Ash))))

THANK YOU ALL TIMES A KAZILLION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I MEAN IT!

Is the word you are looking for
Acceptance
Gims. If so may I repeat you are accepted and loved.

Gims, a phrase I read once and perfectly articulates my own bizarre re-juxtapositioning of emotions and insights from one moment to the next is "a writhing mass of contradictions". At times it's much more than a roller coaster, it feels more like a cosmic battle for my very soul.

What have I learned? That we DO win, and not just in the end, we are winning now, even when it feels like we're sinking into dismal failure. Every single moment has its treasure, and we DO find it and we DO evolve from all of this writhing and colliding and bouncing around. And we ARE and are becoming amazing, breath-takingly beautiful works of art, or as I like to say now, "works of heart".

We all see it in you, Gims. Believe it or not, you RADIATE life and light. You can't see it because you live inside of your own writhing mass of contradictions. But we see it. And I know that you're making it through, step by excruciating step, winning through. And we're here to love you you through each inch and step along this rocky way.

To echo Mountain Ash, you are accepted and loved - and celebrated - and WINNING THROUGH THIS. It may take a long time before your eyes can see it, but hold on to the hope that this too shall pass and that you ARE an amazing work of heart!

gims,
These past three years, due to circumstances beyond my control,
I too have become a borderline recluse. Someone in authority advised me to look out for myself, first. If we neglect to protect ourselves, no one else will. I fully believe you are a good person. But sometimes things happen that make us stand back and rethink other peoples' actions. Life gets complicated. I like Divine Ms. M's advice; I'm confident ladyjane had good ideas. Take care of you!!!! Selfish, insensitive, abusers miss out on the true, loving relationships we have to offer. Don't let your spirit break; and, God will turn the negative stuff into positive stuff. IMO
Prayers and blessing,

I am moved by the insight being shared here. Meredith, I don't get jokes. Hardly ever. I think I missed the humor gene! Gims, I don't know why you say you are not a "good" person. I used to stay awake nights full of regrets and self-recrimination, taking on the "black sheep" role and the victim role and the victim-blaming role. I mean, that's what I learned, to be a victim (I was) and to be blamed for it (I was) and it took a whole lot of years of transformation to be otherwise. Oh, it also took times of estrangement from my family. The other night I had a dream with the word "Vanguard" in it. Vanguard is an investment firm, which I do not participate it. You know what Vanguard represented? "ON GUARD" Yes, I am still on guard. But the difference is that I stopped protecting my mother and brother etc, and I am on guard to protect myself. However, I am now able to let the light shine in to my soul. The fact that you are sharing here and receiving these heart felt words from your friends means that you able to breath in the inspiration. I did not mean to indicate that you might find peace before your parents died. That may or may not happen in a time frame that we connect with in a linear fashion. Before, after, sometimes WE can't choose when. My father could not have been worse. However, after he died, long after, there is peace between us, and I breath a sigh of relief not that he's dead, but that there is peace. If peace is what you want (versus being bitter and resentful) then I do believe that is what you can achieve! Love and Light, Lynn

What you say Princess may I explain how I sense these issues.(Purely my personal feelings)

Nothing is in isolation.Mankind lives side by side by the elements.
In cruel winter when the days are short we long for summer.
But if we dwelled in the dark of a snowbound winter say without heat and never moved from that discomfort even when the sun is here then life would be bleak.
In summer we know winter will come by should be worry about it we would miss the joy.
When the land is apparently dead underneath lies the miricle od new growth.

People get stuck sometimes for years.Its up to those who know this to give aid.Just by being there and saying "I know and I care"
I have had "stuck" times.Bereavement..cruel happenings at work.But the analogy of the seasons has helped.
Mountain ash

Oh MA, your participation here is eloquent and poetic. It is so true that when the land is apparently dead, new growth appears. you know how when it's hot people complain and say, "I can't wait for winter...to wear sweaters." and then when it's winter people say "I can't wait until it's warm." Oh, another thing, there is an individual pace to new growth. PL

Mountain, love the analogy.

Gims, this sounds so simple, but I mean it wholeheartedly, remember God's grace during times like this. It's free and abundant and graciously available. Embrace it and feel loved.

Gims, I think 'detachment' is a good thing when it allows us to function and carry on through something. Some people say 'no, feel it all' but when life calls and/or the pain is too great why not view detachment as another tool to use to get up and carry-on the next morning. We all need tools to get us through and there are alot that are not nearly as healthy as a little detachment and time out. A time will come when things can be dealt with a piece at a time - just not yet.
I don't know anything about you, but I feel the pain in your notes and am sending thoughts of mental peace your way.

I accept the permission to feel as I feel ... do as I think I need to do.

I want to respond to each and every post, so bear with me... there is morsel after morsel of gold, piling up. I hope this is helping everyone else, just as it is helping me!!!

Mama red, {{{squishy hugs, back}}}

MA, acceptance in contrast to rejection - very good word choice, indeed!
As for your season analogy, I read into it something else, something so meaningful...
People do get stuck for years in 'winter = mentally bleak times' (which isn't a bad thing, if it doesn't draw out too long), but by virtue of the 'heat = those who know that people can get stuck sometimes for years and say, "I know and I care,"' given those in 'winter,' they can be carried to a warm and safe place until summer comes again for them. May have to read that twice over... but, simply put, someone in bleak times, can be warmed by another, who understands, saying, "I know and I care." You gals are HOT!

EH, I'll meet you at the finish line ... with winners, all!!! You have made good points, again, and as usual. It's like you are speaking for me. (((hug, hug, hug)))

jabber, the word that rings out in your post is "COMPLICATED"... how applicable. And the more people involved, the more complicated things can get. I got blind sided by the dissension that developed in my family. There's no doubt in my mind that so many others experience similar scenarios... the particulars of your situation were probably dissimilar in root, but like in emotional nature and impact... and I'm sorry you had to grow through yours. I have to say it's comforting to hear words from those who have also felt the need to withdraw for self-preservation. For a long time now, I've looked upon my withdrawal as pitiful... even childish.

JJ, I've grabbed on so tight, your circulation will probably be cut off soon... I it's gonna take King Kong to pry my fingers loose... thanks!

Lynn, as hard as it is to realize that I may not find peace with my parents, at least I can find peace with how things are concerning me and my parents. I'd love to have the former, but if it's not to be, it's not to be. (Thanks so much for your input about this.)
Placing myself in a dying person's place, I see how reconciling differences wouldn't be a priority. I shouldn't expect a lifetime of pushing the matter down to dissolve because one of us will die soon. That's unrealistic. I had hoped... notice the past tense. I will now focus my energy elsewhere in regards to my dad - I will transfer hoping to his passing being easy. As for Mother, I have repeatedly been compelled to visit her again. I tried a month ago, but it was disastrous, not because of her... she cried nonstop for seeing me... it was because there was a crowd. But, because of something she said to me, while the crowd was present, and how it hurt, I know I'm not ready. That night, I started walking home from the hospital, too hurt to ride back with the people who took me. That night gave me a gift, though. I knew when I started toward the freeway that I did not want to die now - my thoughts of the big "S" were miraculously assuaged.

dotsie, thanks for reminding me.... and to mention, I see God is in each of you sweet ladies(((hugs)))

greene, I was told by a therapist to "feel it" in so many words. I did as I was told - let the feelings come, got in touch with them (as they say), processed them mentally, bagged them (an exercise that I was given), and then put the bags away. For a short while, it worked for me, and every so often, I still use the trick... but, it doesn't resolve any issues. I think the mental exercise of going through the steps simply takes your mind off the issue (which is there to come back with short notice, or none at all). This is hard to admit, but I have found that over the past two weeks - two weeks of minimal outside contact - I have started feeling more like my pre-2003 self. After a phone call, or an email, or a happenstance family encounter, I fight to get back to the described state that comes with being temporarily reclusive. greene, thanks! the more you post, the more I like you. You fit right in with all these other exceptionally bright women.

backatchya, JJ

gims,
I feel your and I know you feel my pain. I'm sure this thread is helpful to everyone that reads it. Every human alive goes through
distasteful things. No one can stay on the mountain top forever.
The valleys are bound to abound. But I love the love and insight
felt on this website. Prayers and blessings to all of you!

Spiritual warmth is something to behold on this here forum!
Love, love, love it!!!!!

JJ, amen to that.

Gims, thanks for the wonderful complement near the end of you post. It means alot.
Hope things are at least stable today.

gims high fiving greene...

Well, you may not believe this ---- they may be sending Daddy home tomorrow. I've not been told what this means exactly. I thought they'd keep him so he could remain comfortable. More when I find out. My nurse sister, who came in from FL, spent the evening with him, so maybe she'll get the full scoop - something only two or three of the eight of us children have been privy to (their doing), thus far.

Me - you may not believe this either, but then maybe you will - I got through three (3, get that? 3!) phone calls today, ones that would normally send me into my fetal curl. I processed them well. I give each and all of you full credit for that. mmmmmmmmwwhaaaa! smack, smack, smack...xoxoxoxoxoxoxo!!!!!

Hey, Gims, I am happy to hear that YOU are able to process in a crisis. (I hope you are not like me. I take months, or even years, or a whole decade to process.) I SO understand what you are saying. Bravo! I REALLY know what a milestone this is for you. There must have been some improvement in your father's condition. I am glad that you are able to gain your own perspective from the insights and the amount of caring and sharing via BWS. I did not realize that there are 8 children, or I knew it and it slipped my mind. That is a number of personalities to maneaver (sp?) Gims, standing strong. L, PL

mmmmmmmmwwhaaaa! smack, smack, smack...xoxoxoxoxoxoxo!!!!!
back at ya!

Gims

I'm glad you got the hugs...for some reason, I'm especially drawn to giving, and receiving, them and have been since I was a little one.

I don't have the details of your particular situation and do know the comfort and challenge of retreating into a place where there is no one else to deal with. I spent a long time living in retreat...coming out into the world because I had a son who needed me and, even then, finding solace only in 1 room of my own home.

Whether it takes a moment, a day, a year or a million years, you are doing exactly what you need to do to support where you are right now. Dealing with family dynamics never seems to be an easy task (I spent 8 years being shunned by my dad and the angst it caused the family was enormous). Your ability to reach out to this group and share is a phenomenal gift to all of us and I know you are touching so many hearts and souls by your courage and openness.

Your response to those 3 calls is nothing short of amazing...wow, huge kudos flying through the keyboard to you. That is an amazing feat, especially given where you are on this leg of your journey!

mmmmmmmmwwhaaaa! smack, smack, smack...xoxoxoxoxoxoxo!!!!!

gims,
You sound stronger and that's great! Hugs and kisses from this
part of the USA! OOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXX Prayers and blessings too. There are 11 kids in my bio fam. I'm in the middle of the
clan. I attempted to post about the group, when you mentioned
your retreat back some time ago. But I lost that reply and
didn't find the time or will to repeat the mess. My situation
parallels your's, some. But we won't go there. It's apparent you found the encouragement and help you needed, here. So all I can say is, fantastic! Hang in. And hang on.

gims, keep breathing and dealing. Sounds like you're doing what needs to be done one day at a time. I'm still praying for your peace of mind.

As a journal entry (I gave up true journaling after just a few)...
My dad still hasn't been released. They are working to see if they can stabilize him with meds. He will be bedridden once home, too frail to get up as he use to. He is experiencing pulmonary aspiration, which I understand can result in aspiration pneumonia... he worked in construction before going full time into the ministry, so there's no telling what he was exposed to... he has COPD, also. No one, not even him, will agree to detach the defib... the next jolt may cause more pain than he can handle. BUT, according to the nurse, today, he might outlive my mom - he seems to have the necessary will to live, she is willing herself to die.
What are we going to be like when we are on the top rung?

Gims, can you please tell me what you mean by "on the top rung?" Do you mean on the top rung of the aging thing? Mama, I'm sorry to hear that you were "shunned" by your father for a period of time. Gims, he's going home. Nothing worse than being sick, frail, scared, and hospitalized. L, Pl

Princess Lenora

Thank you...it was one of those "darkest hours", especially when he quoted Bible verses at me for his "justification". I also know it led me on a very different journey than the one I had imagined and, although it was painful and has left a lasting rift between us (which is tough for a Daddy's Girl!), I know I learned a lot.

Gims, how is your dad today? What is happening? Please know I'm available to support your journey. In the meantime, sending love and light to you.

Mama, and is that journey more to your satisfaction?

gims, waiting on an update when you have time.

I recall listening to the hospice nurses who shared when Mom was going to die. They were wrong. She had a will to live and she outlived what all the hospice nurses predicted. They were amazed at how long she hung in there with such teeny space in her one lung for breathing.

gims, the will has a lot to do with it. Keep hanign in there, knowing we're supporting you all the way.

Lynn, you took it correctly. We will be on the top looking down, while the next generation talks about our hearts, lungs, hips, attitudes, strokes....

Thanks Mama Red - I can so hear ya... while not the same (I never was anyone's girl), our treatment was similar. Anxious to hear the answer to dots' question... a good one.

Dots, you're right about 'will' being an important aspect.

My husband stopped to see Daddy last night on the way home from north Texas. Three sisters, a nephew and my mom were already there. He said Daddy was in good, even jovial, spirit... and looks better than he has in a long time.
I also spoke to my sister (the nurse) and she said she thinks he might last longer than all thought - same as your mom did dots.
God is in the driver's seat, so if there's something else my dad is suppose to do before he leaves us, I'm sure he WILL be around long to get that done. I say this because HE is the very one who could glue this family back together!
The man apparently has nine-lives, as my uncle teased, after which he asked if he hasn't just used up his last one.

Gims, I think that the will has a lot to do with the work. My 103 year old grandmother was close to death 5 years ago. My brother and I were estranged. It took a mix of my cancer and grandma's failed health at the time to bring my brother and I back together ( a whole lot of other emotional work went into it too.) Grandma said it had been one of her last wishes that my brother and I come together again. She lived to see that occur. Now she is hanging on. I do wonder sometimes if we come to earth pre-destined to certain people and experiences. Have you any hopes and wishes in regards to your family? Oh, you don't have to say, I just wonder yes or no if you don't want to share. I think sometimes a dying person just does not want to leave the loved ones and sometimes there is actual work to be done.

Oh Anne, what a story. I'm sorry to hear about his drinking more than ever. I wonder how many addicitons block us from living our authentic lives? Seems like nothing short of divine intervention will help. Have any of you as caregivers, hospice, heard of "the final rally?" I'm not sure of the actual meaning, but it sounds like what your 80 year old client is going through.

Yes, this journey is more to my satisfaction...for sure! And I can tell you there was a time when I never thought I would stand up straight again, or be able to face the world or the pain that came from my dad's shunning. I turned completely away from any form of religion...thus perpetuating one of the things I don't like...people lumping people together according to one category or another (whether gender, or religion, or color, or whatever) and then assuming they know that person. One of the biggest gifts of his shunning is me finding a form of spirituality that works for me, even tho' there are days I forgot and assign categories too!

anne327, your story is a sad one.

Did you see the special on the centenarians not too long ago? Some smoked and drank throughout their lives, but yet all are living well past 100... the scientists who did a study on them (all from the same country/region) found they had a gene in common. It was a very interesting show. Sad for the rest of us who'd not only like to live that long, but live an active life while doing it, too.

I think it goes beyond the addictions, Lynn, and is founded in the 'us.' Addictions are but a reaction to the 'usness.' We blanket ourselves in addictions as protection against and crutches for what we can't handle.
I've not heard of the 'final rally,' per se, but the book dotsie recommended I read mentioned something like that. I don't remember it being precisely called the final rally, though. I relate it to being near a delivery time... an extra whammy of gusto right before it's time... I moved a piano, along with an entire living room full of furniture a day before I gave birth to my first. The piano was the old fashion kind, so heavy it took four men to get it into our house. I had enough strength and gusto that day to move it a good 6-8 feet, plus giving it a new direction, all by myself. It was an energy and a desire to do something just like that which drove me to do it... I didn't necessarily get up thinking, "I sure do need to change this room around." I think the 'final rally' (which is a good name for it) has to be something similar. Funny that it would be a contrast of a birth vs. a death.

mama red, we could have a looooonnnnngggggg confab!!! your situation is much, much, much like mine. Since this thread and the caring support of these wonderful women, I have LET IT GO. If any of my family needs or wants me, they can get in touch with me... I'm off the clock, so to speak - and to me, IT'S an AMAZING, revitalizing feeling!!!

Yes, that's true, addictions may be a symptom of an earlier pain. Gims, I cannot believe you moved a piano! And it is quite the contrast birth, death.

Hi gims

Funny, I've been thinking the same thing! I do have contact with my dad...and it has never been the same ... I don't know if my stubbornness (for which I'm famous among family and friends!) is coming out or I'm simply done. I do keep in touch with him and, although this might sound cruel, I don't have a great deal of energy to put toward him. The sad part is I truly was a Daddy's Girl...adored him, believed in him, defended him...until he started cheating on my mom and I was the one who caught him doing so. Years later, when he chose to use a Biblical approach to shunning, I quite bluntly called him on his s***! It was one of the most freeing things I ever did!

I love learning more about folks and connecting with folks on the forum. This is sooooooooooo kewl! One of the things that helped me with my "Dad issue" and "male issues" in general was a transformational leadership course I did about 3 years ago. That and a bunch of study and learning and forgiving and learning and forgiving and learning!

I'm so glad to hear that you've taken yourself off the clock....way to go girl! Way to go!!!!!!!! You deserve the best life has to offer and I'm sure that you, like all of us, have gotten many gifts from your experiences even if they sure as heck didn't seem like them at the time! I believe that one of the reasons I've chosen rewriting stories as my speaking/coaching topic is that I've seen how many ways we can interpret them and re-interpret them and how often people are unable to find the positive in the story. Believe me, I'm waaaaaaaaaaaay good at that and I've changed my habits a LOT over the years.

Welcome to the other side!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, you women have some heavy experiences on your minds. Anne, I wonder about the look in the eyes you are describing. I think some people may just have one step on this side and one on the other? MR, I would not blame you for how you feel. Sometimes we are "done" emotionally. I don't like it when people use the bible to justify and manipulate the wrong they have done.

Hi Princess Lenora

That is one of the things I don't like either...I've known a lot of folks (besides my dad) who do use the Bible like that...and it is a great reminder to me to avoid that when I talk to, and work with, others. And I don't always succeed (grin).

Anne3,
In the hosptial where I work, I, too, am exposed to smokers on oxgen! It'so frightening! Still smoking,and they could blow up, as a matter of fact!

Will you agency allow you to reject clients you don't feel comfortable with?
I moved to the E.R. for this reason among others. I saw hospice patients taking risks with their quality of life.
What does the agency say?

Dancer

Gims,

I am so sorry you are going through this, but grateful you are reaching out. Even though I don't know you, I understand the pain you are feeling. I am sorry your father is non-responsive. It makes me grateful that I can type these words and click on "send." You are in my thoughts and prayers.

Lynn
www.writeradvice.com

Thanks Lgood... after the hospice house's medical team was able to get his medications revamped, he was able to go home. He's been home for four days now. He's bed ridden, but he was able to send out his monthly devotional by email... received it in my email just yesterday.