?

Dancer

No, I can honestly say I don't fear them. But let me add one caveat to that statement; it would also depend on the degree of the mental illness. If it were someone who had been determined to be dangerous to others, then yes; I would have some reservations about being around them. But there are so many different kinds of mental illnesses and I guess too many variables for me to give ONE answer to this. Sorry...I'm no help, am I?

Maybe, because I don't understand mental illness, I would not have reasons to fear them. However, if someone suffers from it and if the behaviour should indicate or manifest violence in my presence because of the illness, then I'd treat the circumstances in the same way I'd treat any other violent circumstances...by an arm's length or find assistance for the person. Mainly because I would not know what else to do.

I worked in 'mental institutions' for more than half of my nursing career, so no, I'm not afraid of the mentally ill. But it isn't always possible to assess who is mentally ill/unstable or just plain dangerous.

No, I'm not scared of mentally ill people, but there's mentally ill and there's dangerous mentally ill. When you're not able to guess what someone's thought processes are, such as with a paranoid schizophrenic, I think it's best keep a bit of a distance, depending on how the individual seems to be. I have been around people who are decompensating and people who are unmedicated, so have a fair amount of exposure.

In Vancouver and Toronto downtown areas, there are panhandlers where some obviously do have some sort of mental illness. I don't mind those who have a mental illness and are polite with anyone. I see them biking around with their belongings and clutter..and honest, whenever I see someone who looks homeless or vaguely mentally ill, I actually think I'd rather deal with those who bike. At least, I know they are working out their demons in a healthy way. Seriously, any form of exercise is healthy/a bit helpful for anyone with a mental illness.

Crazy but true how I feel when I share the road with them.
I'm sure there are alot of drivers think ALL cyclists are slightly insane.

This is a complex question but when you really stop and think about the question there can be only one same answer and that would be YES! Reason being anyone who is a serial killer, or kidnapper, child molester etc., wife beater has to be mentally ill, stone insane in some instances, and these people are to be feared, so YES, you betcha, I do fear them.

My sister who was 4 ft.10 ins. and about 95 pounds soaking wet had dementa. Normally I was not afraid of her but when she went off in a rage I watched myself because she would grab anything she could to try to hurt anyone near her, biting, scratching, pinching, and stabbing if she could. Then and only then did I fear her. People in a demented state become quite strong as well. Something about an adrenalen rush.

I also worked in a day treatment center for adults with emotional illnesses (schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, addictions, personality disorders, etc. etc.) I taught classes in which the issue of stigma and stereotype often came up, so we frequently had discussions about the difference between being mentally ill and being evil. An example would be Hitler -- he was a very successful man, achieved what he wanted, was adulated and powerful. He does not fit the definition of "insane" which is a legal definition. I met a couple of guys there who had been found "guilty by reason of insanity" but to me, they were evil, not ill. You could say such people are spiritually sick, but I think they are willful and it's within their power to change their behavior. Schizophrenics -- maybe most -- don't have the power to do that. Someone can be evil and schizophrenic, but someone can be an evil serial killer with a wife and a job.

Mentally ill people are hardly ever seen on the streets in Germany. I really don’t know what they do with them. They must put them in institutions. That’s why I was sort of shocked and maybe frightened to see so many mentally unstable people on the streets in Vancouver. You see a lot in Italy as well.
I personally think it is better that they are taken care of in institutions. At least they have a bed and regular meals. I would be afraid to allow a young child to walk the streets where so many schizophrenics are. In Germany I wouldn’t have any second thoughts. Not that that is any guarantee. We had a school amok killer today. It’s just terrible.
Classmates were saying peer pressure in the school was unbearable. As far as I know 11 were killed and the amok killer, a student from there, is still running free.

When I think of mentally ill, I don't think of murderers, or kidnappers, or bombers, or whatever. I tend to think of schizophrenics, those who are bipolar, personality disorders -- the "ordinary" types of mental illness that involve either a break with reality or an inability to connect with others on some fundamental level. There are people who commit crimes who are not mentally ill and people who aren't violent and don't commit crimes who are. It's easier, so to speak, to deal with people who are obviously not connecting with reality.

Edelweiss, my experience with friends and relatives who are mentally ill is that the protocol is to get them medicated and out of the hospital asap unless they are violent or truly insane. This practice means that a lot of people are barely functioning and have to be watched carefully by friends and relatives. in addition to that, you cannot get get people confined unless they are a danger to themselves or others. That's fine for the general population, but damn near useless and dangerous itself for people who are chronically mentally ill, who need hospitalization NOW rather than waiting until they do something overt. (A friend of mine almost blew up a block when she got the gas in her stove on, unlit. She thought people were trying to kill her. And she smoked. We all knew she needed help but had to wait until she was so far gone she could be basically arrested. Now, *that's* crazy.) I'm not getting the sense of that either on a financial or humane level. And it happens every day.

I can't say a lot that hasn't been said here. I, personally, with my experience with the mentally ill think in terms of: There are the mentally ill and then there are the evil. The two are not naturally together, in my experience.

D9

Defect of reason, Anne. Where such a defect of reason results from a disease of the mind and the person does not have the ability or perception of the nature and quality of the act he was doing or, if he did know it, that he did not know what he was doing was wrong.

In Illinois maybe some twenty years ago some bureaucrat decided to close several large, filled to capacity, mental institutions. Just opened the door sending the inmates/patients out into the streets with a couple of bucks. I kid you not! This actually happened. These people were mentally challenged, needing help and God only knows what became of most of them. Those two buildings stand empty to this day!!!

following on from you lola weather someone was aware or not of doing wrong, therfore evil or not a good way to determine from mental illness and evilness for want of a better word. Should they still be feared?

can people of all life stages stop repeating some behavioures, yes! think they can? therfore once dangeras to others (threat to you) dose't leave them necassarily going to hurt you (or me)f so anyone who's ever been violent would we watch them as closlie or assume thyd be violent mental illness aside?

NO i don't fear mental illness, sorry but a godsend at times for me

what i think is strange is we all went to extreem examples, child abuse rape murder!

how about less extreem and more common hurts or harms from assosiasions with frends or lovers who are mentalie unwell...?

Do they count? or on topic from being feared or not?

more common stuff like finding it hard to cope with moodswings, greater strees on a romantic relashionship, greater sugestibility ro external forces, hurtfull things being said (when griped by force of unwellness) rembering that symptomes from disorder can be more acute at times than other times...being driven or helped to edge of ones owen sanity or reason (oh yes it can happen lol)

it hurts my hart gratlie every time an assosiation with mental health and danger gets made and its held up as the onlie example of behaviours leading from mental unwelness.

dancer why do you ask?

just trying to get the chat going or has some news articale got you attension or something?
Or observasions from your work place?

if mental ill people to be feared, it dose't bode well for terms of romantic relashionships, parenting ability and practises, job oppertunities and so on. As mental illness/wellness dose't ezxclude the person from any of those activities
So then what?

I'm with Lola -- yes, defect of reason. But not the was the US courts have it. Not guilty by reason of insanity has been overused -- and what about "temporary insanity"? Such a plea is detrimental to those who are seriously mentally ill.
Chatty, the same thing happened in Maryland -- everyone went to live under the bridges and places like that. I met a guy (who used to be a math teacher in city schools) who for 10 years walked along the inland highway along the east coast. He slept right outside any given state line so he could hop the line. He's bipolar but in many ways he was quite reasonable. Anne, you mention the blank eyes. One of the scariest people I've met did make good eye contact. And until he revealed that he'd murdered his girlfriend, I never would've guessed. He used to terrorize the gentle folk at the day center, by doing little mean things, like cutting the crotch out of someone's bathing suit and the person didn't know it until the bus arrived at the pool.

The 'emptying out of the mental institutions' happened under Reagan and was all over the country. These people were turned out with nowhere to go, not even to a halfway house. Families were scrambling to find a safe place for some of the patients who had never lived 'outside'. Those without families ended up on the street (and many are still there.)

Mental health servises are heer for acute cases when someone is daangeris to themselfs or others, (mostlie themselfs) then back to CARE IN THE COMMUNITY, many people families are alreadie at the end of their ability to cope due to emotional straine or becousre they have little understanding of mental illness or how to aid those that are and behaving according to the symptoms of the illness. THE uk system DOSE'T WORK!

ONE example that dose work can be found in scandinavian countries which have great systems with many carers tranned and doing a lot of hands on work with people in the community.
That system works!

people have companie understanding, qualified help, family straine is lessended, if the person is acute and needs hospitaliasion their delt with, quick;lie and effectivlie. Long term institusonal stays arn't the answere. Obviouslie this type of care needs funding and is funded by the taxes.

so when it comes to compasion and seeing the countries system taking proper care of people, WOULD you be willing to fund this with your taxes?

monie weer mouth is time what would you chose?

oh a wee something occured to me while reading this last night. Some of the metal illness named during this thread are descused regularie enough in the forums as a few members are diagnosed with the mental illness thats been named.

their obviouslie not dangeress, nor troublesome in the forums you or many of you alreddie converse with the effected individuels on this sight, some of you may know some may not know that the person being talked with are registered as mentalie ill. Some are medicated some are not medicated.

it just freeks me a bit when people are saying they would be fearfull of a person with such and such AND thir reading this descussion! Also maybee some people will now see people with that mentale illness as not being so forin or alien to them when they think and rember that they been chatting with x y or z forum member for a long time.

this make any sense?

Celtic, I asked this because, yes, of work. At the hospital, on one shift, we may see about 5 mentally ill people. They come through the E.R. when in crisis and they are either sent home or put into a locked ward. They are classifed as either SI, (self injurer,) Or HI, (Homicidal Idealology.) Sometimes they are both. We need the police when they are moved and they must be watched at all times by a health care worker when in the E.R. When moved we use the police to help escort them to a locked ward.

Vet's are often seen as dangerous when they have a mental illness and more than a few have them. We have the state of the art mental, and PTSD new unit of all Veteran's hosptials in the country. We have people from everywhere come now. We have a massive facility that gives people therapy and medical help in the same huge building separate from the hospital. This includes dependents of the military too. We have all kinds come through.

We in the E.R. are not at all afraid of the mentally ill, BUT, the rest of the hospital staff are afraid of them. Most visiting patients are afraid of them even if they have PTSD. They are highly shunned in most of the hospital and by people that are visiting. They don't want to see them, they don't want to be near the ward and they get wide eyed when hearing that the ward even exists.

I do not fear the mentally ill at all. I've got way too much training and life experience.

Yes, there are people on this forum with mental illnesses who are stable and good, even great people. Mental illness is first an ILLNESS. This is the way I see it.

My mother is schizophrenic and has been out of whack since I was about 12. She hears voices, forgets I'm there and I really never had a mother, I had an experience. I don't make a big deal out of this because I have dealt with it. I do not fear her at all. I am at terms with my lot so far as a mother in my life. I am also her closest child with regard to her caregiver.

All this is why I asked the question, Celtic...

Yes, I'm a bit afraid. For instance, the local library employs disabled and a particular young man constantly waives and follows me, saying "hey, hey, come here". I've been told its my hair color that seems to attract him. In any event I'm afraid and don't make eye contact and keep walking. Should I make eye contact? Would this invite him into my personal space? I feel bad that I don't acknowledge him, all the while also afraid. I bet the library staff think I'm stuck-up, tho! Which is embarrassing.

Dancer
There's an interesting documentary from some years ago, (i'll remember the name eventually) about the Vietnam vets against the Vietnam war. Their activities were very very extensive. They were known about at the time, but that history has been forgotten. It's mentioned therein that a myth was begun, about the crazy dangerous vets, in order to discredit the activities of the antiwar vets.

mustang why not talk to one of the libery staff and ask thir opinion on weather you should acknolage the guy or not, thir be familure with his patters of behaviour

when this happens in our countire the S-H are treateed horriblie, raged edjes to wonds snipped with no pain relife, verbalie chastised and mocked, publicalie embarised and some have been left after cutting too deep and bleading too much with a plastic bag over thir arms (they put it their to catch blood) and then a towel rapped around their arm. All pationts are seen by a triage nurse to asses thir severity hence time wating....get a ununderstanding nurse and you be sitting hours and hours and hours, all as a type of punishment to discourage the behaviour.

within the area of addiction thirs many self harmers, S-H can itself be classed as an addiction after reaching a sertine level of severity before its just potencialie addictive.

I done my masters around this subject and heer many are untranned, don't know basic around self-harm or just view it as attension seeking, which for some it might be, but i often wonder what thir seeking attension about, not just attension seeking bad bad bad !

i glade you delt with your mum and the stuff it effected you by and that you have a good relashionship with her now.

I know mentalie hellness affects behaviour and being in relashion to a mentalie ill person is tireing to say the lest and couse damage in those close, how can it not when one definision of mental illness is strange or uncommon behaviours, so how can it not.

The other side of coin is for crying out load thir mentalie ill! you know what i mean?....I think its my responciability to mop up the issues this couses in me, not to keep blaming the ill person. It certinlie exercises your spiritule muscles lol.

i hop that makes sense.


as for people becomng wide eyed, fearfull about the unit what, if any stuff is being done to readress the stereotypes?

oh i forgott with S-H heer thir either locked dowen in a unite medicated and returned home, or just sticked up and put back ut on the streets. their should be another option reallie but thir aint

oh and as for the people heer within the forum, i was hoping the others would think oh i know so and so with such and such and thir ok with me, so...maybee i give x person in real life a chance before i make my mind up abou them...thats why i made that point.

My immediate thought when reading dancer's original question was that I'm NOT afraid of the mentally ill. We all have friends and family members who are mentally ill. Well, I do.

But the more I read, I realized I do have fears. Those fears have to do with the other person's mood. And a lot of the moods have to do with reaction to medications. I was once around a loved one who was hospitalized for mood status. The doctors were way too aggressive with trying different meds to get his behaviour to level out. He became even more agitated. I witnessed several nurses, the hospital security man and a male nursing assistant try to get this man in bed and restrained. Let me tell you. I was scared. Someone mentioned the adrenalin rush, the increased physical strength. It was all there. I was the loved one present and had absolutely no control over the patient. There was no way I could have talked him into cooperating. It was awful.

So, for the most part, I'm not afraid of the mentally ill. Often, I wouldn't even know who they are. But I am petrified of someone whose mood changes in my presence and there's anger involved.

The same goes for someone who isn't mentally ill but becomes angry in my presence. There are plenty of people who are not diagnosed with mental illness, but have anger issues. Wouldn't care to be around them either. So to me, it's not the mental illness, but anyone's foul mood.

good destinction dotsie think you hit the nail on the head with the mood and anger issues.

i would't stand in way of anyones line of fire, id either vanishe (have done that) or come over the top of them scareing them more than i had been scared (done that too) especialie if i felt it to be a bullieing situasion and bullies do back dowen when face with force....on;lie if its bulling.

after talking, or went to one or other. i have combined both sometimes lol.

anyone metalie well or not when out of control with themeselfs are very scarrie to be around, and i been scarred many times but not felt it untill afterwards a lot sometimes during aswell. I been told that i don't look afraid but why would't i be but just blocking it to survie the moment at the time. Both works and has it place but its about judment at time.

i was stuck in a room of maybee about 10 people all a bit emotionalie vulriable one decided they were gonna hammer one other but not in the building anyway talking was doing no good and i was physicalie between them both and afraid of it getting physical in the building anyway. I had enough thought it was gonna explode and went to leave to go call police emergency style, obviouslie i hade't annonsed why i was going just "i sick of this s&&T"as i was halfway to door i stoped walked back a few paces and talked to agresser and invited him outside for a cigerete.

Away from crowed and person he was ragin at he calmed dowen, took a good 20 minets reasoning and "heers your choises and consiquinses stuff" type of chat So that was right thing to have done at time but it was putting myself perhaps in a more vulrible positen potencialie but it actulie wase't in the actule playing out of the situasion.

i rember that one clarlie as i never felt so scared or physicalie vulriable as that in my life and onlie becouse i knew i was newlie pregnant, so physicalie restraning someone be out of question and or getting between two men fighting be out of question too, thats what hietend my fear that day.

apart from desplayed or barlie conselled anger anyone worthie of being given the chance.

thanks for the nail hitting

now i popping back in with afterthoughts and its just that vulriable dose't always mean helpless of without ability to harm, sometimes it just depends on person within or reaction to meds or lack of meds too, as with your relative.

perhapps it all on an indivduel situasion basis ....and not the mental illness as most people could get to a level of out of controlness that has them dangerise, mentalie unwell or not.

I believe more than anything I fear becoming mentally ill myself. I just read an alarming article saying that not only is diabetes bad on its own, and may contribute to certain cancers and heart disease BUT now they are finding it also is a precipitor to Alzeheimers disease. GEESH!!! What else?

I read the report thouroughly and instantly began forgetting things. Now I can worry about yet another issue related to health.

goodness and diabetes is a relativlie common thing.

As we all start to live longer they find more of ths types of relashionships between things.

i think one must guared or we end up just worrieing ourselfs to death. Thats one way we should't try to avoide getting older !

Last night I had a nightmare. I am sure it comes from all this Alzheimer talk. In addition the alarming scenes I've been witnessing at my Mom's senior home, and comments my brother said to me last night about how he thinks sometimes he's losing it. Yikes! My husband has been acting flakey too,…misplacing things and insisting that I said something which I never said.. And every time I’m forgetful, I think, - ‘okay this is the onset. I think I’m slowly going off my rocker; - like Alzeihmer is surrounding me!

I dreamt I had Alzheimers. It was terrifying. I dreamt I could only see people's heads. Their bodies vanished, and everyone's lips were moving, but I couldn't hear a word. It was so vivid and frightening, that I woke up from it.

This morning I decided, as you suggested in your post, Celtic...that I have to get a grip “or we end up just worrying ourselves to death.” I must stop letting all this stuff get under my skin. I have never looked forward to a vacation so much in my life. My brother will be coming over and spending time with my mother, and then Hubby and I are off for the hills. Got to wait till June…but it is something to look forward to.

Edelweiss3,
Sorry you had a nightmare. I hate those things. The fact that
you have vacation to look forward to is neat. I just got home and
the time away was refreshing. Between my friend's miserable fix; brother and MIL with cancer, I needed to hear and see something upbeat. Where we camped we can see people dance in the street; there are antique car shows; and street bands several times a week. I'm glad you'll get a break. As far as guys doin' weird stuff, that's a man thing. And everybody forgets things now and again. Don't put too much stock in that sort of thing. I pray your getaway will be a time of renewal. Prayers and blessings,

Jabber, thank you. Glad you got to get away. You have so many negative things going on in your life...it puts me to shame that I am being so wimpy.
I love it when music plays on the street and people dance. sounds like a ball. Where did you go camping? It must be warm enough there. We got freezing temperatures right now.

Well thats what I am going to try to do....STOP worrying! But I just hate to think of being alone with Alzheimers. Being alone is bad enough.

About Alzheimer - I read an article recently about researchers finding plaque in the brains of Alzheimer victims, plaque similar to dental plaque. Not long after reading that article I read another about the link between infected gums (bacteria) and plaque in clogged arteries... heck, that one was a good one... let me go fetch it...
Here we go:

Health Begins in Your Mouth
http://www.drmarcuslaux.com/
You probably brush your teeth twice a day, floss (hopefully) once a day, maybe use a commercial mouthwash to kill germs, and get your teeth professionally cleaned every 6 months. Good enough? Not even close, no matter what your dentist says.

When experts talk about superior dental care in this country, they’re mostly referring to the services you can get in a good dentist’s chair. But when it comes to educating you about oral hygiene at home, the American Dental Association isn’t putting its money where your mouth is. Yes, fresh breath and a dazzling smile are nice, but there’s a lot more to good oral health care than that. Researchers are finding solid links between the condition of your mouth and some sobering health problems that can wipe the smile right off your face.
Horror (Bio)film

Every time you eat, more than 50 different kinds of mouth bacteria join with food remnants to form a biofilm of acidic goo called plaque. It sticks to your teeth and gums and immediately starts doing what acid does: erode, corrode, and destroy things. If plaque isn’t buffed off your teeth within about an hour after you eat, it starts etching into your enamel, making it doubly hard to get off. Eventually, it becomes calcified and turns into calculus.

Meanwhile, millions of nasty plaque bacteria spread the biofilm into the pockets under your gum line where your toothbrush can’t reach and where the oxygen level is just the way they like it: suffocatingly low. The invasion inflames and swells your gums, essentially closing the tent flap behind the bacteria now safely ensconced inside these warm, moist pockets. The acid starts breaking down the soft tissues around your teeth, deepens the pockets, and makes room for more bacteria. Now the real action begins:

Scene I: The way to your heart is through your mouth. With infected gums, every time your heart beats, millions of those bacteria enter the capillaries that permeate your mouth. Then they surge into your bloodstream—carrying tumor necrosis factor, fibrinogen, and other pro-inflammatory chemicals. They burn lesions into the lining of your arteries, release proteins that activate blood clotting, and stimulate the formation of another kind of plaque: the kind that clogs your arteries. In fact, when scientists dissect chunks of that arterial plaque, guess what they find inside? Oral bacteria. As levels of pro-inflammatory chemicals rise in your bloodstream, you start developing atherosclerosis: plaque-gunked arteries. This stiffens and narrows your arteries, making your blood pressure go up—which can damage your kidneys and make your heart work harder than it’s supposed to. To keep up with the demand, the left side of your heart gets bigger (and, ironically, weaker). Studies show that the less healthy your gums are, the higher your blood pressure is likely to go. Likewise, up goes your risk of heart attack.

Scene II: A stroke against you. If your mouth isn’t healthy, odds are your carotid arteries are becoming clogged, putting you at increased risk of stroke.

Scene III: A surprising turn. Diabetes promotes the same kinds of systemic inflammation that gum disease does, damaging many tissues—including your gums—and impairing their healing capacity. This is one way diabetes contributes to cardiovascular disease. But researchers are now saying it goes both ways: The pro-inflammatory chemicals whipped up by gum disease can induce inflammation in your pancreas, worsening and possibly even causing diabetes.

Scene IV: Child abuse. In pregnant women with gum disease, the risk of premature delivery increases by almost five times. Fetal cord blood from preemies shows that mom’s battle with mouth bacteria is carried, in her blood, to the placenta—where it creates inflammation that causes premature birth.

Scene V: No smoking required. According to a study of almost 6,000 people, having gum disease significantly increases your risk of cancer of the head, neck, and esophagus—even if you’ve never smoked or chewed tobacco.

Eighty percent of Americans have some form of gum disease, and the five horrors I’ve just described can fly completely under the radar. By the time you have obvious signs such as bleeding gums and loose teeth, your health has already suffered significant damage. Some of it might be reversible. All of it is absolutely preventable. Here’s how to get that horror film closed, and keep it closed.

Every time you eat—even if it’s just a snack—you’ll want to interfere with plaque formation. If you wait until after you eat, you’ll need to act quickly to keep plaque from sneaking under your gum line. The best way: Toss a capful (about ½ teaspoon) of plain old 3% USP hydrogen peroxide (available everywhere in the familiar brown plastic bottle) into your mouth. Swish it around for about a minute, then spit. Next, dip the wet bristles of your toothbrush in plain old baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and brush gently as usual. With this simple two-step process, you’ll kill the pathogenic bacteria that thrive in a low-oxygen environment, and neutralize the biofilm’s acidic matrix to break it up. An even better solution is to brush before you eat. If you remove the bacteria before the food arrives, you’ll avoid the acidic environment altogether.

Go beyond brushing. A device called the Hydro Floss may be the ultimate in mouth cleaning. Based on the technology of the familiar Water Pik, the Hydro Floss has a reservoir that magnetizes the water. This development has been shown to reduce the amount of dental plaque by more than 40 percent. If I had to choose one over the other, I’d go with this rather than brushing regularly. Remember, the most serious problems arise in the gums, not the teeth.

Scrape your tongue twice a day. By dramatically reducing the bacterial population in your mouth, scraping helps keep your teeth and gums healthy.

Take a good quality multi-nutrient supplement and 50–100 mg of active coenzyme Q10, once or twice daily. Patients with gum disease typically have significantly lower CoQ10 levels than patients with good oral health, and when they’re supplemented their gum-health scores significantly improve. Some researchers consider gum disease to be a marker for CoQ10 deficiency.

Always use the softest toothbrush you can find. Brushing with a hard-bristled brush can irritate sensitive gums and other delicate tissues.

Don’t use any mouthwash that burns or feels “tingly.” The sensation tells you that the stuff is inflaming your oral tissues. There’s a strong association between daily use of mouthwash and cancer of the mouth and throat.

Don’t settle for just a cleaning if your plaque is excessive and/or you have bleeding gums. Ask to see the dentist. If he or she isn’t up to speed on the general health risks of an unhealthy mouth, get a new dentist.

To answer dancer's question... I'd say I don't fear people with mental illness, but I am cautious around them... however, I've never been around a man with a mental disorder, only women. A man might make a difference.

I think mental illness is one of the cruelest afflictions of nature!!! And one I fear the most for myself... guess it comes from having a mom who had bipolar, near schizo, tendencies all my life (she has never been officially diagnosed, but she could swing from warm to cold in the blink of an eye... and, she would be laughing one minute - weird laughing - then the next minute red faced from crying). Quite scary, esp. for a child with the potential of thinking it was them who was provoking it.

Gims,
My goodness. You are a wealth of information. I don't mean to
treat this subject lightly, but this adage came to mind when
reading your posts. The old folks said, "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach." LOL!
Okay now I'll get serious. Eat walnuts and take Folic Acid. Both Folate and whatever is in walnuts help in the area you're describing. Even when on vacation, I brush and floss after every meal, if I can. I go to the dentist every three months but only because they're monitoring jaw deterioration and implants.
The info you've put forth is excellent; I think some of problem is that young people do not consider some of these issues until
they get older and damage has already festered. When I was young, I didn't take good care of my teeth. It's only been since the 1990s that I started doing what I should've done all along. My teeth are healthy now. But that was not always the case.
I know what you say is true. My adoptive mom died prematurely due to a lack of dental care. Thank you for taking the time to
warn folks. Prayers and blessings,

Edelweiss3,
You asked where we went. In our RV, WB and I go to Kissimmee, Florida for two or three weeks in the beginning of March, every year. We camp at "Tropical Palms"; it's across the street from
Old Town, a retro fun place: old stores; old restaurants; carnival rides and games; parades; street bands; ice cream shops; flee markets, etc. The campground has a cafe, a swimming pool, pond, dog park, etc. We rent a car and travel to nearby places, like Celebration City, St. Cloud, and Polk to geocache. It's a great distraction from the real world of woe! Thanks for asking!

thanks for info gims but i read it 1/4 way dowen and begane worrying about that so stoped, i read enough and do best 9i can with my teeth.

sorry about nightmares EW sounded very scarrie and its easie to worry when people around us are strange sometimes. I forgetfull more now than ever but think it more to do with lack of mental exercise and recalling the right wor is something i have always been bad at but gets worse now. Like go put that with other shoes but i say soks becouse its starts with same first letter.

generallie i think, well i know i do, and maybee some others its the fear and worring over stuff that probablie never happen that dose real trouble with me.

jabber grest you had such a lovelie layed back time, Rv are so cool, thanks for telling us about your travel.

Do any of you use those tiny brushes on your gums? When I switched dentists, my new doctor suggested brushing the gums between the teeth. The tool used for this procedure is long, slim, and plastic with holders on each end that secure a tiny
brush. Oral sells those brushes in a case of 8, I think. After
brushing and flossing, I manually brush the gums between teeth; that cleans whatever particles have been previously missed. My checkups improved greatly since I've been doing this. If you don't already do so, you may want to give it a try. I never heard another dentist put forth that suggestion. My gums are much
healthier these days because of this effort.

I purchased a small bag of the gum brushes @ Target, jabber. Ended up giving them to my aunt, who's in a nursing facility. I didn't even grab one out of the bag to try it out. My dentist told me the best thing for the teeth is an ionic toothbrush. It's not the kind he gave me last year as part of his service to me. So, if I want one, I'll have to search one down for myself.

I didn't have trouble with my teeth UNTL I STARTED going to the dentist, oddly enough... that was after I got my first job that provided dental insurance. I wish I'd never gone for that first cleaning. I have always taken care of my teeth - thanks to the instructions of my maternal grandmother. She had me brushing out of a baking soda box and chewing on honeycombs while I was a child. I credit her for my healthy dental history.

I've been using an electric, Oral toothbrush for the past
15 years or so. I love that thing because I can get behind
the back teeth with it. Those tiny brushes, which are installed on a dental-type pic, are great, IMO, for getting between the teeth. Floss misses some of that space and they do the job. But I know what you mean about going to a professional. I feel fine until I go to a medical doctor. Then the problems start! LOL...

The little brushes I picked up at target were manipulated by hand... tiny little brush heads on a wire handle... found them in the dental floss section.

I want to add to the "Health Begins in Your Mouth" article that what goes on in your stomach can effect your brain, too. I found this out myself... I went off sugar in December, white flour in January, and (the hardest yet) coffee in February. I have limited my processed food consumption, almost to a minimum... the healing has been slow, but powerful.

Gims, have you tried Stevia? I use that instead of sugar.

Jabber, I've been using one of those little proxy brushes for years. They're great. My dentist gives me new brushes each time I go for a cleaning, AND they give me purse size ones to carry so that if I'm out at a restaurant and have the need, I can excuse myself and go to the restroom and use the brush. I love them.

I use Stevia for everything, tea, coffee, kool-aid etc. whipped cream, and for all my baking. It is GREAT!!!! Leaves no after taste either in anything.

I was using stevia (the new Truvia) before I gave up sweeteners all together. It was OK, but didn't quite have sweetening properties equal to sugar. I don't miss either, at all... in fact, I use Arm and Hammer toothpaste and even it's too sweet for me.

gims, I don't have the will power to do what you are doing, but would you begin a post in the health forum about the way you've backed off these products? I think it would make an interesting topic.

The story behind my decision and how I did it isn't very interesting... but if you think it would draw conversation, I'd be more than happy to start a thread.

I def. would be interested.

Sounds interesting and I'm sure there are many good ideas floating about out there that could be added by others as well.

Jawjaw & Gims, Dots & Chats,
I have used those hand-held, tiny bruses as well. I had a lot of
gum resession caused by not taking proper care of my teeth when
I was young. Now I take super care of them, and the deterioration
has reversed. I also use a stannous fluoride rinse a few times a week. That helps.

Back to the question at hand. I was walking through town the other day and saw what I thought could have been a mentally ill man walking towards me. I crossed the street, thought of this thread, then was ashamed of myself.

I was totally making a judgement call. Shame on me.

So as I walked a few streets more, I came across a bus stop, and again saw a man who could have very well been mentally ill. I stayed my path, walked right by him and said "Hi, it's a beautiful day, isn't it?"

He grinned a rather toothless smile and said, "Yes. I love the sun. Plus I have all my stuffed animals with me."

Sure enough, he had a bunch of beanie babies in the white trash bag he was clutching.

His smile and spirit lifted me.

Thanks for posting this thread. It's making me think about the way I treat strangers while out in public.

I think most of us would do the exact same thing Dotsie without even thinking we just move ourselves out of what might be harms way. Its sad too but its the way we have all been conditioned and rightfully so. Its a judgement call, nothing more. Whats so sad is that these people that obviously need some kind of care, get none! Are out wandering the streets alone.

Get a load of this:
Brain Differences Mark Those with Depression

gims,
Family history is significant to lots of issues. Isn't it? They
even site gender brain differences. Those with depression have
thinning in the right side of the brain? I wonder if anti-depressant drugs have anything to do with thinning left side/right side brain thicknesses? All these studies you look up are fascinating.

Dotsie, Chatty,
There are a lot of disfunctional, young people in the County Nursing Home that I frequent. And after being around these people for a while, you don't even notice their inabilities. Your love for people seems to cloud any shortcomings, either physical or mental that others may have. I'd react as Dotsie did, out on the street, I suppose. Women alone, need to be careful.

What a pertinent question. It didn't even cross my mind. I think I'll email and ask.
I usually get info from newsletters I've signed up for. Sometimes I end up researching further, esp. if it relates to the brain - something that fascinates me to the umpteenth degree.

gims, you're so good at researching. Good for you. Good question jabber.

I often believe that those who need the most love, get the least.

If I'm reading what you wrote correctly, you have a mysterious case on your hands. It'd be interesting to see what surfaced if a surveillance system were set up. How is her weight, and has she been diagnosed with any disorder(s)? I understand if you can't go into particulars.

Ane327,
Is she bipolar? Schizophrenic? What? It sounds like she wants attention, lacks love, or something? I don't know. But watch yourself. Be alert. Be aware! Can't say that enough! Prayers and blessings,

Anne327,
Sorry for name typo. Now, in my experience women who have
been sexually abused, sometimes turn into cutters. Now and again,
a victim spins truth, and blames herself for victimization. She hurts herself to, she thinks, ease emotional guilt, which she shouldn't have in the first place. There's a possibility something from this gal's past is interfering with current peace and state of well-being. Don't know. Just a thought!

This breaks my heart. How old is she?

I'd try to befriend her. It sounds like she needs to be loved and accepted.

I have worked with and around many mentally ill in my work with people with various disabilities. No, I was not afraid of them at all in that environment because I knew them individually as people and built up whatever relationship was possible. Now, on the streets of Atlanta (where there are plenty) I am usually fine but occasionally feel that nervousness and fear. I don't think our fears come from anything more than being around someone who's actions you can't predict from your past experiences with people over your life. The folks I knew at work were familiar and I was able to predict there behavior and reactions to people and things. This enabled me to be comfortable and at ease. Being fearful of th unknown isn't a bad thing, it is a basic human survival tool built into people.

greene, you make perfect sense. I totally agree. However, there are times when I don't think I have to be so cautious while out in the public. I'm learning that it's perfectly fine to offer a pleasantry to the homeless I see around town. For the most part, they're harmless.

Thats insightfull dotsie and could almost be a mantra for life in generall.

Working with street homless who beg, thir experinse is often one of extreem lonliness as they interact with 100's of people each day who act as if thy arn't thir. In a sense thy become dehuminised.

one bit of contact short but personal will definatlie make a world of diffrese to these people and what dose it cost us to smile and make eye contact? A simplie "hi" tunres into I acknolage you as being a person and being thir.

I hope i not patrinising you but big pat on the back for relising what you had done and changing it to a more positive action, good self reflection and generosity of spirite thir my lady

In london that big lonlie city, poppie know ever begger by name and them her, on her way to work studie and home.

She know them by name and will stop sit or crouch and chat for 5 minets just generall stuff.

maybee becouse thir always thir she somehow safer as she goes about her bussness, well safer from anyone else hurting her. She not been hurt once by the homless.

as i said i worked in this area and the abuse thes people take would have most of us in therapie for years. Only thir abused and humilated and even physicalie tourtured and hurt if not daily then weeklie.

Thanks for doing things diffrentlie and by doing that i'd bet your sprinkling love around as you do your walking.
Its certinly worth the walk

Anne327,
I've been thinking about you and praying everything will be
okay. Take care. Sorry to hear of this situation.

Anne, so sad to hear that she is young. I got that feeling from your original post. I hope someone can make a difference soon.

It does not surprise me that Poppie chats with the homeless. She appears to have such an open heart.

While posting in this thread, I am reminded that the people who caused the fire at my husband's office were homeless. They may also be mentally ill, but how would we know. They are crack addicts. Pitiful.

There is one woman in particular who lived back there with friends. Even after the firs, she proceeded to live back there. The police kept asking her to leave. They finally took her in one night and she spent the night in jail and was released the next day, and back on the streets.

They can't really prove that she started the fire, but it was her mattress that caught on fire.

A solution is that Ross is having a camera system set up on the back of his building so that as soon as they see anyone back there, they wll notify the police.

The back of his building is the perfect little cubby/hide-out because hardly anyone uses the alley. He has two old row homes. one is shorter that the other, and the row home on the other side is deep, so it's a nice little sheltered spot.

A couple times in the past, he's had to haul homeless belongings to the dump because many would accumulate their belongings in that cubby. WHile it ticks you off that your property is used that way, and you want the homeless off the street, it still doesn't feel right to take the only things they have and dump them, but there is no choice. They don't listen to anyone.

Isa there anyway he could fence off the area Dotsie with a tall fence? It would be worth any cost in the long run if the city would allow it.

Cameras are great determents; towns are installing 'em at busy
intersections. It breaks my heart that there are plazas and offices standing empty and yet so many homeless live in the streets, under bridges, behind buildings. Sorry about the fire at Ross's place of business, Dotsie.

I suppose this is naive of me in many ways BUT in this 'world' we live in where we have so much that is wasted, its hard to believe anyone need go hungry or have to lives on the street. For instance you should see what these casinos and restaurants throw away. Its shameful!

id agree chattie it is a bit mental on a national level the amount of wast of probertie, redevelopment thats unecassary and food wasted, makes no sence when others could be doing with whats being wasted.

In one street homless project we worked in we got end of day fresh sandwhiches for the homless lol deep fried brie and fruitie sauces etc lol well it saved it going in the bin as thse shops remade food dailie and they got to feel good about what would be going to rubbish dumps in normale situasions.

If thy be some local redistribusion places for food and furniture that be a prettie cool opperasion i would think

its bound not to feel nice when haulin homless peoples stuff off to the dump, sometimes its becouse place is a mess sometimes for health and saftie reasons and sometimes they do it as thirs no weer els kinda safe for them to hide stuff.

if it be nicked in a day but wase't for a week at lest they had benifit of that week with their whatever it is they stored thir. Just a diffrent perspective. I don't know if that shift helps it feel any nicer.

If rosses offices are sheltered and safe they keep turning up for the saftie and shelter so it might take something like getting a camera system for them to not be going thir. I sure thy don't mean to be pest at times thir just looking for a place to sleep.

Is thir no homless projects in the towen or dose drink or drugs violate tenancy agreements hence homlessness becomming cyclical?

Are your towens hostels to unsafe to sleep in?

why is thir no place for them to go?

He's done fences and they knocked them down. No lie. It's such a problem. We're hoping the camera will work. Whenever he ssees someone back there, he'll call the police or talk to the one that walks the neighborhood.

celtic, there are shelters for the homeless, but some choose not to go. They may go to some that offer food, but they don't stay there overnight. And if they did, there wouldn't be enough room for all of them.

I know some people see the shelters as being more dangersie than on the streets, so they don't stay overnight. taking view that loads of people together and some more vulriable than others then a shelter can be dangerise for an overnight.

Not enough room at shelters a miserie to think about, for whatever reason. Not being sutiable for some another reason and id champion specalist shelters for certine people.

hope thirs no more trouble or fires for you or ross datsie.

My brother works for the NFL, you should hear the amount of
food they discard. But food pantries will not allow them to
donate leftovers, because of some idiot law someone came up with. Good food, thrown away and people are starvin'? Geese.
Lawmakers ought to have their heads examined!

Oh, I sooooo understand you, Jabber. There's a popular cafe at the corner of the street where I work which, after it shuts at 5:30, would give all their food to the homeless shelters. It was a practice of this very popular chain of cafes. However, sometime last year, they started to leave them by the bins. Boxes and boxes of sandwiches and fruits! I called in on the manager as it carried on for a few days. I was told they were restricted by some health legislation passed by the City together with advertising standards. It has since been resolved and the cafe manager was able to find a loophole and work around the foolish legislation.

Lola,
I'm glad they resolved the situation where you reside. Here, I find it very offensive to throw food out, while area food pantries and the City Mission are struggling to feed needy families.

thats the sushie and sandwhiches place lola that has the city gents picking through thir bags and bundling good bits into thir hankies lol... poppie told me, terrible trouble fighting them off she has lol.

Lola, we have some bagel places here who do the same with shelters, but not nearly enough. I also recall reading about a woman who went to the farmer's markets at the end of the day and gathered fresh porduce to deliver too. This is an area that really needs to be addressed because there is so much waste and so many hungry people. You'd think it would be simple, but I guess there are health regulations and restrictions which keep more people from doing it.

I am unbelievably surprised, shocked, and disappointed at the posts in this thread. Scared of the mentally ill?!? Ladies, welcome to 2009!! That stigma no longer exists among the compassionate and the well-educated.

And now it's my turn to be shocked. If you were looking for a way to blame us and prove to yourself you don't fit in here (your words, not mine), then you've apparently found it.

What does surprise me is the fact that without being specific, you've lumped every member of this forum into one category with your tirade.

Maybe some don't understand mental illness, but this thread was started, apparently, to help others understand. If people give their honest opinions and speak out, we cannot judge them or call them ignorant. It isn't up to us to do so. But instead, it would serve them to help educate them, not berate them, if you feel their knowledge or assessments are wrong.

As far as your initial post only getting two replies, I can assure you that this is normal. Some go days or even weeks without a reply. Why? We have lives outside of the forum. We have other interest, too. And sometimes, we want to digest the post and come back at a later time when we can give it a more thorough reply. And then...........sometimes people just don't know what to say, so they don't say anything.

In my heart of hearts, and I know Dotsie will agree with me...I think you have judge us all way too harshly. I'm sad for you AND I'm sad for us.

Good friendships could have been made here. Now they are lost.

We have a policy here that if you have a "beef" with someone, take it OUTSIDE of the forums. We asked that you kindly email Dotsie or myself. This serves two purposes...

1. It helps us to be aware of something that may have offended someone, or of some post that the member thinks, or perceives as offensive, for one reason or another.

2. It helps prevent any defensive post following and an all out posting war.

In the future, please follow this policy. I hope you will stay, but obviously you are hurt by some post or posts you have read, so I doubt you will. But I can't help wondering if you would feel differently if yo stepped back and gave it more thought.

No need to reply. In fact, we hope you will not. Read #2.

Sorry to see you go.

JJ, I have to commend you on your answer. You are a great moderator, and a big reason why this place is so wonderful .

I just want to add one little comment; … I would never feel comfortable participating in a forum for the mentally ill. So crazy Mom, if you feel so comfortable in such forums, then why seek other ones? As far as being afraid of you…well…no…but you certainly seem to have some anger issues. Gee, that’s sort of scary.

JJ, I'll echo Edelweiss's commendation on your answer. Very wise and compassionate. To lump everyone here into one basket because of one particular thread - without really getting to know who the people are behind the posts - is sad and tragically way off the mark and totally misses who we really are.

I'm also mentally ill; despite years of therapy, medication and a profound spirituality, I still struggle daily through dark patches, severe anxiety, unrelenting (so-far) grief and so much else that I can't share even here. Sometimes my emotional roller-coastering gets whacky and I retreat into silence, not because others are afraid of me, but because I just simply can't think right on those days.

For the most part this is a safe haven. Some days the ground gets a little shakey, but not because of mental illness or whatever other labels someone might be tempted to tag us with, but just because we're human and we disagree and light fires. But that's okay...that's how we learn unity in diversity. And when we gather the courage to come back, forgive each other and learn to understand what woundedness lies behind each other's posts, then we evolve into deeper friendships and a more compassionate community as a whole.

I'm mentally ill and I'd rather be here than anywhere else...well, I AM enjoying my farm on Facebook too...

Crazymom, I just got back..from cycling for 2 hrs., then grocery shopping --after sleeping for the last 10 hrs. I'm here on the Pacific Coast, in a different time zone, so if I post anything I'm always late in this forum.

Take time to know us and understand each of us. It will take over several months.

The time I fell into depression and undertook intensive counselling for 1 yr. was when I university student. It was a serious effort to get up from bed and pass that academic year but it was pivotal year that made me less fearful about life choices.

Then later, my brother threatened suicide (it really shook my family, but he's fine) and a few years later, a sister fell into post-partum depression which coincided with leaving her profession after kid #2.

Slow down, please. Listen to our stories.

Mary, this thread is only one of many here at BWS. Those who have posted here have been HONEST with what they had to say about the issues that were raised. And, that is what you will find at BWS. We all reply from the heart.

All of us here come from different backgrounds, experiences and circumstances. And, we share that as a community. You can choose to help us understand you and the issues which affect those with mental illness. I, admittedly, have no clue as to how it affects one who suffers from it but, I am learning from what is shared here. But, most importantly and assuredly, Mary, compassion is extended by those who do not suffer from the illness.

I would add another tidbit of wisdom...many women who stumble through these BWS doors arrive wounded and afraid to let their voices be heard. We've said it before, and we'll keep saying it...we cannot possibly be all things for all people who come here. We are only who we are, wounded, flawed, quirky, and human. We come and go, ebb and flow, as time, circumstances and emotional well-being allow. You can never presume to know the totality of any one person by how they speak about one subject in one thread. It takes weeks, months, even years of caring, loving listening to truly glimpse the wondrous beauty and wisdom that lies in each heart here. That's why some of us stay...those who have the eyes to see can see so much more than the proverbial tip of the iceberg. When you stay around long enough, you find out that EVERYONE is walking wounded in some way. It takes patience and compassion to stay and dare to dig deep enough to discover the true inner beauty of this place and the women who keep this place going.

CrazyMom, I've experienced all of what you've described here. All of the stigmatizing, all of the judgementalism (I have no friends left since my last depressive episode). I'm guilty of succumbing to the futility of trying to educate people...it's like banging one's head against the brick wall. You're right. Even here in this very compassionate, caring community, there's sometimes an underlying pressure to think one's way out of depression...and when I encounter that, it makes me sad and tired, because who would expect that of someone who has cancer or some other physiologically measureable illness...and yet, many do think as you've described, that it's all choice and if I'm depressed, it's because I choose to be. How I hate to hear that sentiment, because I have NEVER chosen to be depressed, not when I was eight, not when I was thirteen, and not now. It is NOT something someone can just "get over", as if you could flick a switch.

I'm glad you shared this information here. We've had some really good solid discussions on depression here over the years, but lately it's been much more difficult to have those kinds of discussions without encountering some of the stigma that you describe here.

Thank you.

crazymom, please do not judge so harshly. The purpose of this thread is to meet people where they are and then hopefully, with our words, experiences, and new found education, grow in our understanding of what mental illness is. I think it's working. It may not be precisely the way you want it to be, but I'm certain some of us have learned more about mental illness simply by reading one another's stories and feeling compassion. If you think we are shallow, educate us, but don't label us as such.

Just like someone doesn't know what it's like to live with two diabetics (as I do) not everyone has experienced mental illness first-hand. As with every topic posted about at BWS, we are all learning from one another and growing in ways I thought were unimaginable before launching a forum community.

Taken right from our Forum Guidelines:

Life stories - "We simply ask that you not attack the beliefs or choices of others. Please don’t tell others what they should or shouldn’t believe. Don’t tell them how to live their lives."

I just want to bring this up because we are allowed to and expected to share our voices, but we are not suppose to attack others for their voices. Everyone is in a different place in life. One of the reasons we are here is because we want to learn. Please let us do so without judging us.

I hope you will stick around and get to know us better. Bring us along on your life journey. That's what we do with one another. And in doing so, we grow and have an appreciation for what other boomer women are going through.

In the progress toward better education of all disabilities and illness we have to first grasp what our preconceptions and beliefs are.This is learned individually.
I have learned that a wide spectrum of knowledge is out there in society so this will be mirrored here on a forum.


Word use/terminology has changed throughout the years and although mostly framed originally in the medical mode soon can become slang and used loosely.To the hurt of those affected and their loved ones.

The reader can pick up a sentence posted on a forum and bring their own belief/value system into play .If the topic is a passion and of great personal importance then what others say may wound deeply.In groups body and facial response of everyone guides the conversation.Here it cannot happen unless addressed at source with good intent and manners..so a short question in response to a statement asking for clarification can assist discussion.

The question.."Are you afraid of people with a mental illness"
I believe I balance my bounderies and respect for humanity well so dont feel afraid.
If in a professional capacity I would say..No but would wish to have information in order to work to full benefit.

Mountain ash

Crazymom, you are not going to get people to act better by being judgmental yourself. Yes, it's true: mental illness is stigmatized, undertreated, often mocked, and simply not believed in by many. A lot of these attitudes are holdovers from beliefs in possession, fear of the unknown, and general ignorance. Do not get me started on our treatment of the mentally ill; if we treated our other physical illnesses the same way, namely by expecting the sick person to diagnose herself and make herself better, those tax Tea Paries would look like picnics. All true, and I have plenty of experience with mentally ill friends and relatives myself.

But if you're going to tell the truth, tell it. Mental illness is not one condition any more than cancer. For some people, their illnesses will be treatable and for others they will face a lifetime of illness and inability to function normally. And yes, suffering from paranoid schizophrenia can be worse than being blind; it all depends on the severity of the illness. People whose illness renders them unable to form any meaningful, positive human relationship have truly been given a hard challenge. Let's not pretend otherwise, and let's not pretend that some people's illness -- some people -- will not eventually exhaust their friends and family members, the same as can happen with other chronic conditions. There's a huge range of mental illness; some people function well with occasional lapses and others have no contact with reality. And if I happen to sound less than politically correct, it's because I see no reason to stigmatize mental illness or to cover it up. In our family, we use a lot of black humor as a coping mechanism; otherwise you'd cry at the unhappy situations that will probably never improve.

We might have made great strides in better understanding and in medications, but like treating diabetes or cancer. We still have a long way to go. It's not nothing and sometimes it's scary when someone decompensates. Having to call the police so they can help a friend is never funny -- and I have done it more than once.

My point has been twisted. The issue is the ATTITUDE of the posts in this thread. As another poster remarked in another thread about this topic, will the next acceptable topic be "Do you fear homosexuals?" How would Dotsie feel if someone posted the topic "Do you fear diabetics?"

I, for one, will not dispute the Mayo Clinic and thousands of other esteemed professionals who are working to de-stigmatize emotional illness. From above:
"Stigma, by definition, is a mark of disgrace or shame.... stereotyping people who have that condition ...Creating a division — a superior "us" group and a devalued "them" group, resulting in loss of status in the community...Statistics, however, don't bear out a connection between mental illnesses and violence. Most people who have a mental illness are neither violent nor criminals...Negative portrayals of people with mental illnesses fuel fear and mistrust and reinforce distorted perceptions. That leads to even more stigma, causing a vicious cycle..."

Were you aware that overeating is considered an emotional/mental problem?

crazymom....you obviously have tunnel vision when it comes to the women on the forum and their attempt to reach out. Makes me wonder why you left the other forums....hmmm...

It's ironic to me that the very thing you profess to desire, is the very opposite of what you give back.

You may be right. I think it is time to throw in the towel. We wish you well, and hope that you find the right people to welcome into your world. You are always welcome back here. But we make no apologies. We've tried.

Good luck!

Though crazymom may not be here with us for awhile (or maybe never?), I am wondering about Eagleheart's latest comments.

I guess Eagleheart my perception, is that you've been hurting alot and as a stranger to you, I don't feel comfortable asking directly about something that you've spent alot of time sharing with us (though some of us, like myself, haven't been part of the group as long as others here). YOu have been so open to express in a graceful way that it's just the right amount of info. for me about yourself, the lows and highs in life.

Or maybe I should turn the question abit differently: I just posted a new topic under Redefining Life. Does a topic like that make you uncomfortable to respond?

You don't need to respond. I'm just reflecting that on the time I was feeling depressed, the whirl of humdrum predictable life swirled around me, but I felt locked within myself /muffled in my world of uncerrtainities, etc. On one hand I wanted some important people in my life to understand what I was going through, on the other hand I took strange comfort of being with other people who asked nothing out of me, but just to be my usual ordinary self (despite feeling convoluted inside) and just to be with them as they expected me to be. ie. have dinner with family, see a movie, go shopping with them, etc. I was afraid that if they knew how depressed I was, then they would unintentionally be asking me often/bug me about 'progress' or just talking about the depression or whatever. That was the last thing I knew I didn't want...untrained, unsolicited help from well-intentioned family and close friends.

I just wanted to be left alone in my struggle and work with my counsellor. I did tell people,...my family..several years later and 1-2 of my closest friend when I was the middle phase of counselling.

Orchid, how eloquently you have expressed EXACTLY what I feel these days. I could never have expressed it as perfectly as you have. That's precisely why I love to be HERE at BWS. I've tried other forums that are specifically geared to people with mental illness, but I always felt like I was drowning in negativity and everything, every topic, was centered around the illness.

For me, I need/choose to always remember to not define myself by my depression or limitations...I am infinitely more than my depression, and I love the freedom to explore and just be ALL that I am. Depression is not the totality of who I am and I love it when people dare to go beyond that label and discover the "more" that's there.

Before my Dad died in 1999 I had been symptom-free for almost 20 years. I was working full-time, very active in my church and community and enjoying life with every fiber of my being. I might have weathered Dad's death okay, but when Mom died two years later, every other facet of my life was also in upheaval, and it was too much and I broke down. That's about when I arrived here. This place helped me immensely, precisely in the freedom to just be with caring women who asked nothing more of me than to just "be".

Again, I was rising from the ashes of that dark period when my brother died, and then another devastating family crisis emerged the same week as he died which ended up almost completely shattering our family perhaps beyond repair. My family has always been the center of my life, so these past two years have been exceptionally painful. My brother was not just my brother, but my best friend and confidante, and his passing has left a huge void in my life. And losing contact, albeit hopefully temporarily, with my other brothers during this time of grief has just compounded the grief. And the nature of the situation has caused immeasurable sorrow that haunts and gnaws at me, despite every effort to do whatever I can to fill the void in other good and nourrishing ways.

Anyway, that's the journey in a nutshell. I'm strong, healthy, wiser than before (thanks to the women here) and faithful to both myself and to life itself. I love life, I embrace all that there still is in me to discover and all that there is to discover in others. It's slow-going, but I'm grateful to still be alive to keep going.

Thank you for sharing, Orchid. Your words were the perfect description of where I'm at.

As for topics, I steer away from political discussions, not because of depression, but because I just hate political discussions. But I read some of the posts to get a better glimpse into the women behind the postings. My focus here is always to either discover new wisdom through listening to other women's experiences, or to help other women through their own journeys in whatever small way I can. If posting something helps or contributes to the culture and laughter of this place, then I post. If nothing comes to mind, or I don't know what to say, I usually defer to someone more eloquent and wise in that area of expertise.

I keep wondering which of the names women that were unsatisfied with us crazymom used before? The words sound eerily familar, just the name has been changed to protect the sneaky!!!

Eagleheart, there are times I envy your natural gift of word usage for complicated stuff that you feel/think! I could have only expressed what I did, in hindsight from long ago. Not during that time period which what you are feeling now.


Interesting chatty, but then I haven't been a long-time participant here compared to some of you. If we could all meet crazymom in person. After all, if she is comfortable talking about her depression and breaking down stereotypes, best thing is for us to meet her in person.

Mountain Ash, it's really good to hear your voice again. I've missed you more than words can say.

Thank you Orchid. And thank you for your insights...I didn't know you had gone through a depressive period like that. I'm glad you shared.

Having any sort of illness does not entitle you to be snotty. You don't know me and don't have the vaguest idea what I have lived through and what I have done to help people and to educate others, yet you feel free to make your own judgments. But somehow I feel any more words would be wasted on you. Peace out, as they say; I will continue to help my family and friends as they need it.

Eagle Heart, my heart goes out to you and to anyone else who is strugglng. Heck, this has been me. I know people want to be connected, but sometimes the internet is not the gentlest of places; people often say things too snappishly or forget that someone might not understand tone of voice, so to speak. If you are already feeling fragile -- something that can happen to any of us -- that lack of understanding can feel like a rebuff. I hope you are doing well.

I haven't been on this thread in a while and have found the recent developments a bit confusing. I think the issue is that crazymom has confused dancer's original question of "fear" with "stigma." They are not the same.
Besides that, I've observed that a lot of people are generally afraid of differences of all sorts -- adults fear adolescents, men fear women, young people fear the elderly, people fear others with disease, disabilities and disfigurements, they fear different ethnicities, religions, skin colors, nationalities, they fear weird haircuts and clothing styles and even food preferences. And I found, when working at the day treatment center for adults with mental and emotional illnesses, people in that group feared each other.

Fearing though is not necessarily belittling or feeling superior to. I don't think anyone negatively portrayed all people with mental illness, but discussed their own feelings. And we dealt, in this thread, with the difference between violence and mental illness (as mentioned in the Mayo Clinic quote above).

I think it's better to admit and examine one's fears so that you can work on them than to have unacknowledged fears.

DJ, I have watched this forum closely and I agree with you. We are only trying to share, be honest and grow in our understanding of mental illnees. When someone has never experienced mental illness first-hand they have no way of knowing if their words are ignorant. At least they are trying to get a better understanding.

I imagine we all have either experienced some form of mental illiness as there are many to pick from or know someone who either has, or is now.

This question of fear makes me think of the diabetics and homosexuals being lumped into this discussion. Has anyone ever known a diabetic or homosexual locked in a padded room because they might hurt themselves or someone else? I haven't! Has anyone ever heard of someone on a killing spree because of diabetes or homosexuality? I haven't! Has anyone heard of someone putting an infant in a micro wave or drowning it due to diabetes or homosexually? I haven't... Or a father or mother killing their entire family because of diabetes or homesexually? I doubt it!!

So what the hell has one got to do with the other.

Oranges and apples ladies, oranges and apples!!!

There was a perfectly understandable question asked and answered by many. Diabetics and homosexuals have nothing to do with this question nor does anyone with any other disease like heart trouble, IBS, MS, TB or well you know what I mean!

Does this kind of trouble making mindset sound familar ladies, well it does to me...Beware!

Chatty, well said, IMO. Thank you for the perspective. I've avoided this topic since its inception. The reason is that I think the initial question itself incites controversy in an unfavorable direction. We know what "fear" is in terms of instinctive flight or flight urges. We know that mental illness is diagnosable, sometimes treatable, not always curable, a disease, a disorder. IMO the question itself implies that those with mental illness may cause fear in others. Those with mental illness may fear those with mental illness. Those with mental health may fear those with mental illness. Those with mental illness may fear those with mental health. In some diseases, there is a continuum, and those with the same DX mental illness may fear others with the exact same condition, only a different degree. I'm sure that somewhere on this forum we have discussed concepts such as compassionate care for those with mental illness. And/or how we move ourselves toward mental health? Hypothetical concepts, rhetorical question, just saying.

I am reading "People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil" by M. Scott Peck. He wrote the highly popular "The Road Less Traveled: A New Psychology of Love, Traditional Values, and Spiritual Growth." He defines mental health as "an ongoing process of dedication to reality at all costs." So, that is a good question, How do you define mental health? If I read again all these responses to the topic question "Do you fear those with mental illnesses?" I'm sure I may find a response that reminds us that we don't know who is mentally ill unless the "ill" person is defined as such by experts and/or that person behaves as we lay people commonly think a mentally ill person behaves. So, if a person is mentally ill, yet functions well in society without exhibiting any behavior that will cause us to fear, we are not so much fearing the mentally ill but the behavior of the mentally ill. Another fear may be this: are we afraid that we may become mentally ill? A greater percentage of both men and women who have been sexually abused are diagnosed as bipolar than those who have never been sexually abused? So that begs the question: Does sexual abuse cause mental illness? Would that person NOT be bipolar had he/she never been sexually abused? And of course not all that are DX bipolar have been sexually abused. Just contemplating. I worry a lot too, and have to snap myself out of a cycle of worry. Much of the worry has nothing to do with reality. Some of the worry has to do with very real anticipation of what lies ahead.

Hello Ladies, I know that I have not been around much lately, two reasons are isolating myself from support and fear of posting. I had been in and out for a browse to see how everyone have been. Each of those times I would be reading through this thread, although for me just now, my answer to the original question has evolved over many years and allows me not to fear the mentally ill…but I have been harbouring a fear of my own illness and have only over the past couple of years, dragging myself screaming and kicking away from my own denial to a point where surrender and acceptance permits my truths. What I have been watching this particular thread and find posts to be honest and sincere, yet caustic in others. Truth be told….I am insure if I can comment any further than my last point as I am struggling very hard to keep a thought in my head, which makes some sense just now.
I have just barely managed to evade admission to the psych hospital yesterday at ten o’clock in the night, having been assessed by three different doctors and it is now 5.40am this being the second or third week without any decent sleep. Over the past four days , I have rapidly gone down far enough for me to be honest about all the kinds of things would try to keep well hidden by locking myself away in my room and employing my own little strategies which to the most do put the breaks on the symptoms and the sheer terror until is passes. I became very skilled with this technique from the age of eleven until now as I did not have the words to describe it(or even have an awareness of the nature of the illness)

Going into hospital would have been the biggest set back and that I can say with certainty. I have not been hospitalized since I was 27/28...I truly believe it would be the end for me. Today has been by far one of the most frightening that I have experienced in a long time. I had the full works going on from yesterday, voices commanding and visual hallucinations , third party conversations with me, my Mum who has been dead for 9yrs and another that I don‘t recognise(I am between this other person amd Ma, the other person is scooping out my very heart and soul with the harshest of criticisms and Ma is trying to stop the onslaught…but I can usually sit these out, painful or not.

The scales tipped too far in the wrong way when I answered my phone and had a 30 min chat with Ma repeating asking me to ‘come home’. Shortly afterwards, I was still lucid enough to make a couple of calls to get me to my G.P and then casualty and by this time I had gone into a shock like state. Despite my levels of anxiety, the professionals concerned were very, very different from my earlier experiences like when my family convinced me that “all I really needed was a good nights sleep.”. I was nineteen and they left me there for 6months being pumped full of the most horrendous drugs which just served to shut me up. I was comatosed, The psych at that time would threaten me with ECT unless I did as he wanted which was not to self harm and not to scrub my skin raw cladding bath(to name but a very few things which I had to comply). This cycle repeated itself for many years and I would always be instutionalised. This time around, my meds were tweaked and a home visit program starts sometime after 10 this morning

These recent frequent episodes can be pinned on many different things,, higher levels of stress, worry and fretting about everything and anything, change of HRT meds. There are so many possible causes, however, I no longer feel the urgent need to cover things or smoke screen as I need to be as honest as I can. Which depends on how far down I will have gone. Celtic is amazing when it comes to aiding my in putting a different interpretation on the subject matter of the scary stuff, I can just ‘be’ with her and trust that she is guiding me, even just down the phone.

So, I come here also for support as I need very much to tap into as many areas that are safe for me to just ’be’ and pray that I won’t be judged too harshly. Logic and rational are grand if my mind lets me get to them enough to convey the imminent slide. As I have hidden this for so long, I feel some relief in sharing in good faith. I also would be incredibly grateful if anyone has knowledge and/or experience whereby I could be told some strategies or information which could help me pull back quicker before hysteria and serious confusion get their choking grip on me. Is it safe for me to chat in this way as I am uncertain about coming across somewhat clear? I pray that I will be safe and trust that my Boomer sisters will PM me if I am being inappropriate. I need your prayers, I need to talk to let some light chase away my darkness and some support which I know still exists in this very special space.

Poppie

Having courage for the greatest of sorrows of life, and have patience for the small ones. Onlythen will you have accomplished enough to sleep. God is awake.

Poppie, I hear you. I too hope that you will be safe here with all that you've shared. Try to focus only on the "safe" and loving responses and put any that threaten you in any way on the back burner. The love that radiates from the people who truly understand and care will shine through...take that and nothing else while here.

I know that anxiety so well. Remembering days and weeks when I couldn't even step outside my front door to check the mailbox. It was excruciating. And nobody understood.

How did I make it through? Prayer and sheer willpower, forcing my mind to focus on positive energy, over and over and over and over again. Filling my brain with positive messages (over and over and over again). It was HARD WORK, requiring 24/7 diligence. And it was exhausting. Meds helped, but really, focusing on focusing helped the most. And being here, surrounded by love. I think it was a different place back then, but hopefully the love and care will shine through now for you.

And perhaps the most important thing? Keep breathing!

Carrying you in heart - God IS AWAKE and listening and WITH YOU. Anxiety/depression mangles our thinking and perceptions so we can't see/hear/sense what we need. But I truly believe that everything we need to get ourselves through is provided, through the people, meds, resources and everything else around us. Try to remind yourself that this is not your totality, that you are more than this anxiety, and that you are surrounded by love, light, energy and care. Because you are.

Poppie, thank you ever so much for opening your heart here. I adore you for your courage. Reaching out is a beautiful sign for your healing. I've read several memoirs written by women who are bi-polar and through them I can understand a bit of what you are suffering through. May God bless you and hold you in the palm of His hand.

Eagle's advice seems perfect. Try so very hard, with all your strength, to focus on what is good and right and just. Try with all your might to push the bad thoughts away. Pick up the phone and reach out to others. If at all possible, try to meet a friend for a walk outdoors. Just one little thing at a time. Try not to be alone with your negative thoughts.

I hope and pray your treatment beginning today will be precisely what you need to change your mood and lift you up.

I'll be holding you and Celtic and l very close to my heart. Love you dear friend!

You know, Poppie, I was thinking about you all morning while out and about doing errands (with hubby - I can go anywhere with him, but not too far on my own still). One thing I've gotten very good at is IMMEDIATELY changing space...eg, as soon as I catch myself falling into despair or anxiety in bed in the morning, I IMMEDIATELY get out of bed, open the curtains, open the window, say thanks to God for a new day, pray for all my loved ones and then get on with my day. It was extremely hard for me to start doing this, but now it's habit, and it's a good one. No matter where I am or what I'm doing now, if I start to feel myself slide into that dark zone, I immediately change direction - one of the very best things I can do is to immediately start doing something for someone else - write an email, bake cookies for neighbours, buy a card for someone (how many times have I been in the mall, started to slide, and gone into the card shop to buy a card for someone! Believe it or not, it works for me, most of the time).

Anyway, this might not work for you, but I just wanted to share it as a possible coping mechanism, if not for you, perhaps for someone else out there who's reading this thread. For me, it has to be immediate, before I allow myself one step further into those thoughts or darkness. Change direction, change rooms, change the activity, change focus to something completely different.

It still doesn't always address the underlying issues, pain or problems, but it's just one more way to cope while trying to pull oneself through the day.

Addendum: I've heard of some women using a bracelet to help them refocus...they switch the bracelet to the other arm and say a prayer of gratitude/thanks as an active declaration of refocusing. I use the word "gratitude" because IMO gratitude radiates positive energy, and the simple act of being grateful - speaking a thank you for even the smallest things - brings that positive energy and light into our being.

Eagle, I can see you're thinking about Poppie too. I was checking back in to see if she's been here. I like the advice you're sharing. Thank you.

Once again, whithin these forums and threads, I always find some solace, short lived maybe,but a wee repreive now and then and it comes in the caring response from the care and concern I have seen. The psych SHO, who plans to to have home visits daily for a couple of weeks, this keeps me out of hospital, my meds will be under reveiw and this team specializing in acute episodes such as the ones I have takled about earlier. I have recieved such a high standard of care with all departments singing from the same hymn sheet...that was a pleasant suprise which I did not expect.

He was realy reassuring as my notions of phyc's in my past has many shocking and horrible things happened in such intitutions, I witnessed mistreatment of other patients and I could do nothing about it as I was drugged(the shut up tecnique)

I was reassured this time(18yrs past) by a young psychiatrist that the treatment from back then would never happen in this day and AGE it had gone through many changes. I was hanging on by a thread, but knew that hosp would not be an option.

The Doc allowed me to go home on a promise I would take all my meds, and some more which he belived would help me in the short term.
I am not out of the woods yet, by a long shot..but my needs will be met daily for a few weeks, I am still petrified and this that and the other.
Plz bare with me and I will promise not to post about some things when I am too far gone for anyone to comprehend. I will pop in just to update and for some of the care I am being given.... OBoy I sure need, your prayers, can you please be a tad patient, I need to be able to hang out where I am sure is saff

I hear much more hope in your voice than earlier today. So glad to hear you are happy with your care. That's encouraging.

Treatment has changed drastically during the last 20 years. I'm glad you are aware of that and appear less afraid.

I'm more than happy to bare with you Poppie. You keep taking good care of yourself and putting yourself first. Keep reaching out. It will help you heal.

The last book I read was titled Manic. One thing she mentioned was that when she finally was able to lift her head, get out of bed, and make contact with another soul, she knew she was going to be okay, eventually.

Baby steps will soon become toddler steps, and you'll be on your way. I have faith in you Pop!

Po, yes we are 'tad patient', don't need to be, we are that for you. I never realized what you are going through. Bless you chara, and hopefully the new meds will help you find your way.

Eagle and Dotsie, your concern and wise words are well recieved and I will try some of the suggestions put forward. I know you can hear me loud and clear eagle...your posts give me a little hope along with Dots when I am feeling at my most hopeless in these situations.
Angel a chara, I am the mistress of diguise and can conceal the harsher symptoms pretty darn quick, and have done for years.
For me to be afforded the opportunity to come in after being away for so long and find kindness and concern is priceless.

It has been four days sinse sleep or sense have graced my difficulties and I am heart sore and weary(battle fatigue)
The home visit team have just left and I cannot fault them for all of the services provided too.
I wouldn't wish this on anyone and I am not sure that my insight is a help or a hinderance...but hey, I am not sure of many things at this time. Even when I become so lost in the scariest of the symptoms...one of the things which keeps me distracted is posting while in a bad state. It pulls hard on my focus....so even though takes all night to write one post which is comprehensable. The little wordsmith in me has a fair few wee rules which I stick to fastidiously, despite the three ringed circus in my head. I wont post unless I am happy with the flow, grammer and subject matter are all in sync....just another little tool to help me through.
I re-read my earlier posts and in spite of my thinking and feeling, I still can manage to convey what I need to without a big drama.

I hope you can all stay close as this 'phase' goes through to the other side...I am so greatful for all the guidance and I need it so much.

Thanks Ladies for bolstering me at my most vulnerable, for your kindness and patience shown.

Much Love

Poppie

Your insight Poppie
.words to be read by others..you are a wordsmith

I could write so many things in reply..
I wont..
for its you I care about and my words would be solely for you..so thats why I have been reading with concern but heartened that Eagle and Dotsie have been posting such wisdom.

without sleep you will have heightened awareness..once your medication kicks in things will settle.

Its a new era with more enlightened medical support.
Blessings



.

Poppie, gald to hear that posting here brings you a bit of clarity. Does journaling do the same? Just a thought.

I'm carrying you around. Was just thinking of you on the way home from the food store. Praying for rest and best results to the new meds. Peace dear friend!

Dear Poppie, I am so sorry to hear of the terrible chaos in your mind, and the confusion in your heart. I see how going into the hospital would be a bit scary, and perhaps to be avoided. You can get home visits for psych care? That is a good thing! You have been very brave to post your most vulnerable thoughts here. You trusted your boomer sisters to help you through. I see you are safe with what you convey. Love and Light, Lynn

Its good for me to have these kinds of supports in place and a far cry from what it used to be like. My doc came out to see me yesrerday to see me with the perpitetic assistance. Nothing has changed bar one of my medicines have been reaised three times of what it used to be..this was done to sort put my insomnia and the three ringed circus in my head. I feel it working in my head...such a huge dose of medicine,(which has me very groggie)

I am supprised to have the ability to think at all and I aplologise in advance if I go off in a tangent.

I sat last night and put all of my night meds in their own individual boxes, from Monday till Monday, counting up each milligram as I went along, crying as I went along as I added each dose till the last one..until the end it ammounted to 7,450 mils each dose!!!!I cryed some more....Is this it for the rest of my life?This too shalll pass is one well trodden psth and platitude
I am so tired of the routines both niight abd day. So very tired.

Poppie

Poppie. I too am bipolar, but type II so I deal mainly with severe depression and very little with mania. I am on 3 different meds at the moment and used to wonder if it would be that way for a lifetime. Now I have let go of that worry because life on these meds is worth living, I'm happy, connected and enjoying people once again. To be without the meds is just plain painful. Hang in there, it sounds like you have a good professional support system. And remember that getting just the right combination of meds often takes some trial and error.
I just dropped into the forum after being gone a year or two because I missed the on-line friends. There is nothing but love and caring here, let that compassion be a part of your support team!

{{{{Poppie}}}}

I wish I could give a hug in person. I don't have experience in what you're going through but send love and caring.

When we come full circle to who we really are, that is how we find the way forward. Be brave.

Poppie, we're all holding you close, daily. We are reading, getting the updates you give, and care, very much. So even if you don't see one or two of us responding here too much, please don't think we aren't listening and praying for you to have a healthy mind, body, and spirit. We care very much!

Whenever you feel up to it, give us an update. Love coming your way, my friend.

Poppie, I put you in my suitcase when I went to the beach and carried you there in thought and prayer. Am home again, and continue to think about you.

I know the amount of meds might seem a bit threatening, but so what. If they make you feel better, it has to be worth it.

I have a friend who is dealing with a similar acceptance of being medicated for life. If the medicine helps, what the heck. Why not. I hope you will soon be able to put a positive spin on that piece of healing.

Poppie, you were in my thoughts as I took my medication this morning. I hope that they will be able to find the right balance for you, sooner rather than later. Hang in there, we are all pulling for you. Let us know how you are doing, we care.

Checking in on Poppie. Anyone heard from her?

Hello Ladies,
just plucking up a wee bit of courage to pop in and say Hi, give a wee update too. I am still receiving the support mentioned earlier, but boy is this hard, hard work. My meds are still being tweaked and as my HRT was changed a few weeks ago too..it is still making for a rough ride.
No need for hospital even though the down cycles are very erratic. I can't over the terror that ensues when the light leaves my life even for just a little while, and whilst I know I am being cared for in little pockets all over the place..I know that this is a battle I will ultimatly do alone, I have to turn this whole thing around, change many things which drag me further into an abyss....and I am a wee cuddy(girl)who doesn't like change very much. However, it's a commin'. I have to take many steps back before I can try tentativley going forward.

Again, for all the care shown here, I can't express what it means to me just now as always..to the most since I have been around ya'll, I can say for sure that it has been incredibly consistant. It still amazes me that for probably a very long while before joining boomers..how much emotional 'stuff', whether good bad or indifferent....I get the opprotunity to be true to me with this forum. For that gift to have been given so very readily to me, my god opened this little window of light to guide in dark, in joy, in love, in tears, in anger, in pain, in happiness...you name it, I get it.

With big Loves
Poppie

'I have had enough'

I have had enough
sadness,
enough of the sad
rattle of shells
and stones
dragged
back and fourth
each day
by the rising,
receding tides.
It is time
to gather up
those memories
lost in my depths
memories delicate
as shells,
enduring as stone.
I will wash them
ashore, sweep them
higher than
any tide,
I will carry them
home,
be proud of them.
They are all I have
to help me know
when the sadness
began,
that made me
who I am.

Po, your poem says it all, and it shows hope and determination. I pray the tide will take your sorrow and give you back peace of mind.

Good to see you Poppie.

I love the seashore your poem is beautiful and meaningful

One to keep in my special folder..

Even during your difficult times, your posts are a pleasure to read. I hear more hope in your voice each time whish is a good thing. Poppie, I know you're struggling, please also know I'm praying for your struggles to lessen with each passing day.

Lovely poem sharing more hope.

Picture your boomer girlfriends carrying you ashore to a place where there are more happy moments.

Beautiful eloquent words, Poppie...they articulate the journey so well. If only it could be as easy as gathering up a collection of shells off the beach...be kind to yourself, despite any evidence to the contrary, this truly is an awesome journey you're on, and the treasures buried deep inside the darkness will shine bright enough to light your path back to solid ground.

We are with you. Many of us have made similar treks, crawling on bloody knees to reach daylight...it IS reachable. Take courage from those who have made it out and lived to tell their story.

Poppie, I now live out of the darkest places but remember them oh so well when I read your posts. I lived for 4 years in darkness, including suicide attempts. If it is any help to know, I fought my way through it and with help and support (and letting myself be supported) have finally come out on the other side. The darkness still occasionally tries to sneak back in but I can recognize it sooner and get myself back on track faster. I know you will eventually be able to do the same. My thoughts are with you as you keep up your fight.
By the way, your poem is great! It expresses so much in such a beautiful way.

Hello ladies, a quick wee update from planet Po. I am happy(and a little tentative)as I am back at college next monday, I am realy looking forward nonetheless. The house hunting is a pain in the neck, but I am also a tad more confident about suitable homes for me and mine.
I still feel that my moods are bungy(sp?)jumping all over the show. I am confidant that these things will settle somewhat, quickly as I will be focusing in what I am passionate about. I will be producing some work and selling in time for christmas.

Big Loves
Poppie








1, 2, 3, 4, 5.…..



I am counting on the rain
staying away
so that the sky
can paint a landscape…
fit for dreamers and artisans
the lovers and poets.
The blackberries
will be ripened in days

I am counting on what
I can see in a person,
until the cracks
appear, and my heart
takes the blunt of the blow.
As a guest at my own childhood
You came to play too?

I am counting on autumn
to have a soft colours,
ones which say ‘slow down!’
all displayed in one
pretty dress, a time
When summer won’t forget
all about me and
my swish and swirl

So pleased to see your message..may the right dwelling place rise up before your eyes.College soon...good luck

So pleased to see your message..may the right dwelling place rise up before your eyes.College soon...good luck

Great poem Poppie. All the best wishes for whatevere you do.