I wanted to share something that happened just now and has me frustrated. We have property that is adjacent to 21 acres of woods owned by someone else. For the past few days surveyers have been all over the place and today 4 men walked onto my property and I went out to meet them. The owner introduced himself and he complimented me on our home and how beautiful the place looks. We talked about the history of the place, prior owners and then got to talking about what he was about to do with his land. He said he's going to rip out every tree and plant a pine tree farm. (There go our owls and wildlife). Anyway, he said the problem is his property butts up again a bunch of "N's" neighborhood. I was stunned that he used that word around me and before I'd recovered from hearing it once he said it again in a derrogatory way. As politely as possible and without any sarcasm said, "They're not "N's", they're black people. I have friends who are black and find the N word offensive and never use it. I would appreciate it if you could refraind from using it around me". At which point, he turned on his heels and walked off. He looks about my age (I'd never met him before) but have heard that he owns a lot of property in this area.
One of the problems I had about moving back to the deep south is this very attitude with some of the folks who live here. And I realize it's not just in the south that this is a problem.
I was wondering what you would do if faced with something similar? Would you say something or say nothing. I read somewhere that saying nothing IS saying something. Would you stand up for what you believe or say nothing?
I am of the age and attitude that when someone says this word around me it's like hearing the F word or taking the Lord's name in vain.
Larry keeps telling me I can't change the south and some people's attitudes...and I know this. But, I can ask a person not to use it around me, especially while they're standing in my yard. If I hear it elsewhere I can walk away.

First of all, re: Property being turning into something commercial. Same happened to us. The guy behind us was about the subdivide (after we'd been told for YEARS that prpty was BLM land..owned by govt and will not ever be "used".) The county had to notify us and we had a chance to contest. We did not but the owner decided to plant alfalfa instead.

The "N" word. I heard it growing up, too. In the east...from my Grandmother!! I don't use it AT ALL. And Yes I would have said something just like you. And that I have a relative (cousin-in-law) who is African American and I take offense as she is NOT a "N".

I LOVE this age that I can say what is on my mind.

Dee, if someone used that word around me, it would make me cringe to the center of my heart. But I’ll be truthful, if that person seemed primitive and dumb…I wouldn’t waste my breath or time of day with him/her.

Otherwise, I agree with Di, the advantage of being older is saying what you think, and not giving a damn what they think!

Dee,
As a true Southerner, thru and thru, I have never used that word and it is not part of my vocabulary. My parents didn't either. We did and do have black friends and families. They weren't colored either. They were people. Just people. There were no riots in the 60's or 70's in my town and our school was integrated. One of the first ones. The kids were people we grew up with, so we couldn't figure out the big deal was all about. And please don't someone jump in here and tell me that we were the exception. How do you know?

For every bad experience someone has just as you did, Dee, there are lots of Southerners who do not share that man's ignorance.

I get so tired of everybody blaming the South for other people's ignorance...like the North doesn't or never has, held prejudices. IT'S ALL IN THE SOUTH.

To say, "One of the problems I had about moving back to the deep south is this very attitude with some of the folks who live here," really gets to me as well. So you think prejudice only lives in the deep South? You've traveled the world and you've never seen prejudice before?

You don't have to live in the South to see prejudice. It just so happened that your neighbor is...AND that's too bad. I find a blanket statements such as "you can't change the South," very disturbing and unjust. And quite frankly, it hurts my feelings.

From Elie Wiesel: "When good men do nothing, evil prevails." Speak up.

Dee, you did the best thing in the most polite way that was fitting for your personal values by speaking up.

Just hope the guy doesn't retaliate in some strange way.

Oh yea, so just because President Obama is in power that doesn't help either. So SAD.

Jawjaw, some people's prejudices might really come out when they have to choose location of home to buy...no kiddin'. I will save some stories...later.

JJ...Larry wasn't referring to people who don't have prejudice attitudes in the south...he was referring to people who do. I think you're smart enough to figure that one out. And as far as what I said, "One of the problems I had about moving back to the deep south is this very attitude with some of the folks who live here." being upsetting to you...if you re-read it you'll see that I said "some of the folks"...not all of the folks.
I wish I lived in your world...it sounds nicer...down here it isn't so pretty. There isn't a week goes by that I don't hear remarks that refers negatively towards black Americans. Remarks like "Well, you know how THEY are." the "N" word. "Are they black?"...referring to the new people who bought a house down the block. I was cut off on the highway by a car and was relaying the story to some ladies at a meeting I attended...the first question was "Was he black?" I'm so sick of this attitude that I could scream. What the hell is wrong with people? I didn't hear this kind of talk in Oklahoma or Iowa or California or Florida...but, I did in Mississippi and do in Alabama...that's why I say 'southern' states. It makes me sick that I'm living in a country and in a state where so many of its citizens still consider people of color beneath them. It's embarrassing to me as a white person. For that man to stand there today and say what he said and assuming that I was as stupid and ignorant as he, infuriates me. If you want to see unjust and disturbing then come down here and walk around and listen to what's really being said.
You made reference to me living in other places. Yes, I have and, no, color was not an issue...it wasn't brought up in every freaking conversation that I have with people in Europe...it wasn't an issue. Here...in the south...it's almost always an issue...always. In meetings, in the church even and I remind you all of the day I was in the department store and a white clerk turned her back on a black man and turned to me instead saying "You know how they are." I get sick of people thinking that I am like them. I'm not and every chance I get to speak out against prejudice I'm going to. You are right...not every southerner is prejudice...but, that's not what I was trying to say...you took it wrong.
Be upset with me if you want to JJ but I'm only telling it like I have seen it and experienced it. I cannot speak for the northern part of the United States because I haven't lived there, but I can speak for the southern part because I was born here, lived here and returned here...and not much has changed.

Alice: No truer words were spoken.

Orchid: Thanks...and yes, you should have heard remarks about Obama down here. Larry was afraid to put a yard poster and sticker on our vehicle for fear of retaliation...from white people. The mentality that still exists baffles me. And yes, the remarks about black folks moving into white neighborhoods is still an issue for some...honestly.

Sorry JawJaw, we know it's not all in the South, not by a long shot. BUT, there are significant areas in the South where people are not only casually if not hatefully prejudiced but also not accepting of outsiders. And Dee, Oklahoma is not exactly a hotbed of enlightment; casual racially charged comments are not unusual here.

I spend nearly 3 years in North Carolina and I'll never go back -- and I'm white. I got *so* sick and tired of being called a Damn Yankee all the time. You know, they didn't care where I was from and usually didn't even bother to ask. I didn't sound right, so that made me a target. I cannot imagine how non-Caucasians would have been treated.

I was completely unprepared for this and learned many good lessons, mostly to try and be decent to others. The lesson I also learned was that I'm not going back there. I have had enough Southern hospitality.)

To this day, I just don't think I'd ever be accepted for myself in some places. Even though I know there are plenty of other places like that that are not in the south, but that was my experience. I watch myself pretty carefully even around here because I know I'm different, not sounding like a native and all. Usually it's pretty ok, but sometimes I get smacked again.

By the way, if people start using racial epithets no matter whre I am, I speak up. I don't care if they don't like me, I'm not going to listen to that.

Dee, I think prejudice goes the other way as well. My DIL’s family was against her marrying my son, a white man. And when they were in Florida together, they did not walk hand in hand in fear of how the black’s would react. My son refuses to go there with her now.

We do have some discrimination going on against Islams and the Turkish population in Germany. But it is because many aren’t integrating into the German culture. They build their mausoleums, veiled woman walk 5 steps behind their husbands and daughters get sent away if they have anything to do with a German man.

I love the following quotes:


and

I live as far north as the middle of the US can get, and we have racial comments going on here all over the place. A few weeks before the end of the school year, I had an African American parent call me white trash.

We have African Americans calling Somalian immigrants names. We have Asian Amerians and Latino Americans putting each other down, on a daily basis. And yes, we hear the "N" word on a daily basis - white to black, black to black, asian to black and blah, blah, blah.

I hate any form of name calling. Last night Dennis and I watched the movie, Gran Torino. The boy, Thao, played by Bee Vang, was a former student of mine. The name calling in that movie was a part of the plot, but it still bothered me. It's simple bullying, to me. And name calling, in any form, is usually done by some one who is ignorant (not necessarily stupid), and afraid of the other group.

Dee, you did right, to speak your point of view. I doubt that it will impact the neighbor much, but maybe he won't come over to talk to you again.

Good for you Dee! He got just what he deserved.

Ellemm, Edelweiss, Anne327. Prejudice is all over the world and comes in many forms and faces. The one that affects me the most is where I'm living and thus the reason for my question. I'm sorry for those who have to hear ignorance pour forth from someone's mouth cencerning race, religion, etc. I feel more sorry for the person who says it because they miss out on so many wonderful chances to get to know another wonderful human being.

Standing up for one's beliefs can make enemies...I think I've, very unintentionally, just made one with JJ. I tried reaching out to her in a PM and she won't talk to me and has ended the conversation. All I can say is that it was not my intention to hurt her or to insult her. None of it was ever meant for or directed to her personally.

As for this man who came over yesterday with her surveyers...he isn't going to build a house on the property...(thank the Lord)...He's stripping the land and planting a pine tree farm. It will take, I'm assuming, years for the trees to get to cutting size.

Edelweiss..I do remember an incident that happened when I lived in Delkenheim...I lived in a duplex and one night my neighbor's home was robbed...I didn't find out until the next morning when it had been discovered and the Politzi arrived at my door asking questions. Later that day a German neighbor came over and talked to me about it...his response was that the neighborhood believed "Turks" had done it. It turned out to be a couple of German guys.

I understand also about your son's feelings. In my lifetime I've dated two very nice black men...one in Germany and one in Gulfport Mississippi. We got the looks, too, but we just ignored them. Anthony's mother was white, his father black and he always leaned towards white women...I just saw a man.

Chatty!!! Hey girl!!!! The truth is I HATE situations like this one...but, I feel if I don't say something then it is giving permission for that person to continue saying something that cuts to my heart. Thanks for your support and for seeing what I was trying to say.

ANNO...didn't mean to leave you out!!! What did you do when you were called white trash? My gosh...that was awful.

On interracial unions/marriages (free from coersion), it's not that commonplace as we would like to think. Only 3%, based on 2001 Canadian census.

I doubt the U.S. % is much higher, if that. After all, there are huge swaths, in the U.S. where there wouldn't be a huge perpondance (meaning hundreds of thousands that would make a critical mass) of those of Afro, Asian, East Indian descent, etc.

http://www.boomerwomenspeak.com/forums/u...true#Post149292

As for the name-calling regardless of who said to what, pretty low and ..in the end, petty but loaded with much bigger issues of behind such mockery/put-downs.

As someone who is visibly non-white, but university educated and tasted middle class life after struggling upward from childhood poverty with immigrant parents...i have to say that I should expect some misunderstanding/eggs flung from some segment of society. I would be viewed by some segments as a: banana (yellow on outside, white on the inside), sell-out (but I couldn't have been after being involved in a community group activist organization on human rights, immigration, race relations), conformist (if you looked at my job resume), etc.

For JJ: You know I'm part of that Asian group that has restaurants usually with crappy washrooms, many of them speaking loud shouting Chinese when you get a bunch together, etc...but I hope that still someone will see through we're (Chinese-Canadians) not all like that.

Just as Dee and Ellenm have tried to say so about you and your neighbourhood of long ago.

good dee for standing true to your prinsiabples especalie weer it would be easier to say nuthing, well maybee easier on the outside but then thir consionse to live with. I do the same, even if i know i hitting my head off a rock i do it anyway becouse i only think i hitting it agenst a rock i can't say for sure. Saying that i don't get into political or intilectual debate just a simple plz no more of that in my presense is enough usule for me, if thirs dialoge after that then thats fine too.

two days ago we had 100 romanian sleeping in a church, next day 25 more families evacuated. only a few years before that it was chinise and japenise people being clensed out the area.

Any large numbers of non ni whites heer get burned out, any large numbers of non protestants get burned out which leaves a large white non anything but normale ni people in this area. Sickening as it is not every person in that area thinks the way the ones clensing do. It dose't do anyone any good but just i pointing out they don't always think the same way, it happens anyway, regardless.

pheww and i had a hard time chatting in heer a bit of time ago becouse i was finding it hard to relate with the wprld you seemed to be in and the one i was witnessing with my eyes that was diff from what was reported.

JAW JAW good you spook up, dee did say not all, and all other stuff that said not them all etc. I been in a same position as you also and needed "but we aint all like that" to be said a bit more or a bit louder at times. I need more time to organise my thoughts around this but i know i identify with this, diffrent subject matter but same underlying feeling. Maybee we all do whenever we feel our people are being attacked or even slighted when we know some may be like that but not all.

BOTH dee and jj could both be right and its proper we hear both voises in this chat.

sadlie jj were the racist southerneers do still hold racist ideas it may take longer for those ideas to subside as it ONCE was such a big part of country and way of life. Like p[olitiks stop outright religious descriminason heer BUT unsutale or grop mentalitie still pravales.

Hope ya keep talking out dee, its allways needed unless ya get directlie physicalie hurt or put in danger becouse of it.

Dee, you did the right thing. And to answer your question, I also would have spoken up. Otherwise, people will remain ignorant. More than likely, your comment won't change him, but you did your part to help him see another perspective.

Unfortunately, prejudicy is sometimes all one knows. It's what they've been taught from generation to generation, and how sad is that?

My niece recently moved to a small town in the south and took a job at a food store/deli. She witnessed employees not waiting on African Americans and talking down to them. She called them on it and guess who no longer has a job? They cut her hours to the point that she quit. She tried to make a difference and lost. I was shocked that this behavior still takes place.

I live in MD and trust me, there are lots of prejudice people here too.

My daughter is Asian and many of her friends are African American. I have a niece who is married to an African American. So this topic is near and dear to my heart.

I have a friend whose son is also Asian and when he was in high school in the early 90s there was a lot of division among race. Some of his African American friends said he belonged with them, not the white people. All of this sickens me. Why did he have to choose who he hung out with by the color of their skin? He was adopted by caucasion folks so how do you think that made him feel?

It's all very sad, but like Dee, when we witness this, we have to speak up.

Thats another thing about Vegas, there is little if any prejudice here. All races work next to one another in Casinos and live and shop next to one another. Its a mish-mash of all types together so I hear and see very little racism here..

Hopefully for your niece this incident will help her see the need to "walk your talk"..in her future jobs. Rather than just give up. There are other personal actions a person can take where they can make a difference. And I don't mean just speaking up...

Dee- I think it's very admirable that you were polite to this person and nicely told him how you feel about that language. I think that word is horrible! We are trying to teach Laine (our five-year-old sweet daughter) that people are people--no color label is needed. Living in the Mississippi Delta, that belief is not always reciprocated, but at least we'll teach her the correct way. On "Extreme Makeover - Home Edition" one time, they had a family who had adopted two children. They were both from different areas of the world, but something they did to show others they are alike was to turn their hands palm up and put them all together. They told Ty on the show that they were all the same. It was very sweet and very true. Color is just a color.

I'm proud of your actions, Dee!

Karenelaine...I needed that this morning...thank you for your approval and I'm so proud of you for teaching your daughter to be color-blind when it comes to people. You are a very special Mom and a grand lady. Your daughter is lucky to have you as her Mother. I'm proud of you, too.

Hugs

I'm up here in the North; and, at the moment, I know many nicer
black people, than I do white people. Inside sweetness is the
same, no matter what color skin a person may have!!!! IMO...

Dee, I did what I always do when ignorant people talk to me or someone else in that manner. I tell them I will not listen to talk like that and I walk away. I have been called worse.

I realize times change, and we need to learn to accept changes, good and bad. However, being in education for so long (20+ years), I think one of the saddest changes is the way people talk to each other. They are role models, albiet poor ones, for our children. The words and disrespect that come out of people's mouths these days saddens me.

Oh thank you so much, Dee!! Your words made my day!! Hugs

The first time I came in contact with any form of racism was when I was 12 and my family moved to Chicago. From the moment I grew my tongue, I spoke out against racism, sexism, religionism, homophobia etc. -- and not nearly as polite as you, Dee.

I've been know to look someone straight in the eyes and calmly say, "Studies show that people who have prejudiced attitudes are either highly insecure or really stupid. Which are you?" -- stare for 5 seconds, and then walk away.

Subtlety has never been my strong suit.

It takes self-restraint to do this.

I can remain calm and smiling even as the smoke comes out of my ears. It's a talent much like patting your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time.

Divine,
I love your candor! You go girl!

Anno, I totally agree. Ewww, I heard a woman at the mall yesterday talking to her two year old with such disgust, I couldn't help but stare and share a look of shock. When adults begin talking to their kids that way at SUCH an ealry age, waht comes out when they begin talking? Pitiful.

Merideth...I wish I could think quickly and with such coolness as you when I'm pissed off but unfortuntely that doesn't always happen. I try to be calm but it doesn't always work. But, I'm going to try and remember what you said for next time.

Orchid...Yep...I agree.

Jabber...I understand completely. Been there, too. And I tell you what...my black friend aren't obsessed with talking about whites the way whites are talking about 'the blacks'. I just don't get that part of the culture down here. And what's even more strange is the folks who run down the blacks don't have friends who are blacks, have never been in their homes, have never associated with them and yet they seem to know all about 'the blacks'. I have gotten up and left a room when the topic turned because I don't want to be a part of that ignorance.

Anno...you're right, too. Kids practice what they see, repeat what they hear and learn hate before they realize what it means...it continues all over. So sad

Dotsie...Don't you sometimes want to snatch a parent bald headed for how they talk to their children? It's sad to see and hear.

Racial prejudice is everywhere in the USA. What is different between the north and the south is that in the south it is considered acceptable by MANY people to use the n word freely. In the north, it is considered inappropriate and I don't think you'll find it happening publicly very often. in my husband's line of work (insurance) he has had to deal with claims in many states, including the deep south. Nowhere except in the deep south did he experience racial prejudice so openly expressed. And yes, he finally had to tell one guy that he didn't want to hear that kind of language. And when business owners were scrambling to get roofs put onto their buildings in New Orleans after Katrina, if you were a black businessman, you were in big trouble. Some of his claimants who were black lamented that they could not hire roofing contractors because of their race. It's a tough world out there.
There are racists aplenty in the north too, but most of them know better than to display it in public. That is the difference.

Madelaine...I could not have said it better...Bravo!!!

I believe that I have run into more racist blacks of late, than whites, they seem openly hostile. I think its because of our now having a black President. They somehow seem to feel empowered by that.

Chatty...that's unfortunate that you're experienceing that there. I'm not finding that here at all...in fact, I am seeing blacks being more approachable than before. You can see the pride and hopefulness in their smiling faces.....they have a right to feel happy and hopeful and I'm so glad that I'm alive to see this and be a part of it. I'd feel empowered, too, if I were in their shoes...it's pretty amazing.

I agree, Dee.
I'm reading a book called A Different mirror, written by a japanese American about the history of race in the US. I've also been renting the Slavery in America series that was on PBS. What I now really get is that it wasn't until the 1980s -- repeat, 1980s -- that anti-discrimination laws started to take hold in any way.

so, supremacy based on white skin began in the 1600s, was codified into the Constitution, pretty much, persisted into Reconstruction. Separate but equal became law in the 1890s, was legally overturned in the 1950s but in reality nothing happened until the 1960s with the Civil Rights movement and some of LBJ's laws...

On the one hand, we shouldn't be surprised to find remnants of it. But you gotta wonder...

Where are you renting your PBS on Slavery in America? I would loe to watch that.

from Netflix. I watched episode 3 today. Some of those stories are like nightmares. Episode 4 is the civil war, so I guess that'll be the last one.

I recently had an unpleasant episode. I was making a return at a local merchant, had been waiting for a good 10 minutes or better. (I was watching the time, because my DH was waiting for me in the car, and I worry about him having to when he does.) I was obviously the next in line, but a black women (close to a foot taller than me) pushes her way into position to be waited on when it came my turn. In the past I would have allowed it, and told such a person, "please, go ahead." But, this time, I was irritated, esp. since she was looking down her nose at me with a scowl on her face. I stepped up and purposefully layed my merchandise on the counter and started speaking with the sales clerk, not giving the black woman time to react, or take the moment... Her attitude and dismeanor was so uncalled for --- no one can convince me that it doesn't go both ways...
--- and I was so proud of myself for protecting my position.

I agree Gims.

My husband and I have experienced discrimination from my DIL's side of the family. I know it goes both ways. Although, I'm not sure if they don't accept my son and the rest of his family because of our skin color or if it's because we don't belong to their church. Maybe its both. I can just sum it up as ignorance, arrogance, and just plain meanness...big time.

We paid for our DIL's wedding dress and the entire wedding. Not one family member even showed up! We paid the downpayment for their apartment, but that's something we did for both of our sons. The fact that the mother didn't come to the wedding was not because she couldn't afford it, because she came over afterwards for the birth of her grandchild. She did all kinds of ritual stuff while her daughter was in the delivery room. This was a side of America that I never heard of. It was as if she came from a strange land.

It may sound shallow, but we never even got a thank you for giving her daughter a beautiful wedding. We have no contact, despite a number of tries on my part. Now I wouldn't give the mother or my DIL's stuck up sisters the time of day.

gims, how was this situation discrimination and not just simple rudeness? She may indeed have decided that someone smaller and whiter was fair game, or she could be the kind of person who just pushes her way to the front regardless. I mean, when someone whose skin color is like mine butts in front of me I don't assume it's racial. I assume that person is just pushy and rude -- and will get away with it unless someone speaks up, so good for you.

Gims
your racist attitude is very clear here. Why was the woman's race important in this conversation? Have you never encountered a white rude person? would you have written to us here "this rude white woman pushed me out of line"
please explain to me what racist thing the black woman did.
I have encountered many people of all races who were not rude.
and a few rude ones too.

Yes, Dee, me too. It's a glow that I have never seen before, and I love it. It's called hope. Hope for every person of color, who might never amount to much, but that their own children or grandchildren, if they have the pluck and gumption really can pursue the american dream heretofore seemingly denied to them.

I have also read that book "A Different Mirror" It really explains a lot about the animosity different downtrodden groups have had and still have for each other in the USA.

EW, your daughter-in-law's family might have some dysfunctional family members who are wrongfully manifesting their own problems to someone as distant to them as yourself..even though you have tried to be supportive in many different ways. You are distant to them, because of the cultural difference, based on brief descriptions of them. It was wrong they didn't thank you and your hubby for wedding. But guess that's past, given all the tougher developments now in strained marriage for your son, etc.

Some people, both Asians and non-Asians have told me that they aren't treated well in Chinatown at times or whatever. Most times it's just business as usual...good and bad.

Well, I get treated both politely and rudely in Chinatown depending..on the person. Rudeness and hostility is not the way to go for any society or human relations. But different cultures and different people's personality express negative stuff in different ways. I view some Asians just highly entrepreneurial and pushy. Period. And many working in restaurants and stores probably don't like their jobs...because it's low-paying. It's not part of their ultimate Canadian/American dream of making it big. Then there are those who give decent or at least civil, honest service. That's good enough for me. I'm not expecting the red carpet no matter how much money I am willing to pay.

By the way, EW, the big in joke between my partner and myself, is now that I have experienced directly working for and with many Germans in the firm I was with, that there IS a fit between the standoffish, technical, organized German and the technical, high organized Chinese workers. The negatives of the 2 cultures, actually worked well in sychronization on the working relationships in the firm where I worked. Neither the Germans nor the Chinese of what I saw have much patience for things done in a slow-moving, lazy way at all. Yet to others from other cultural (or just family) backgrounds that are more persuasive slower, emotional, warmer,....Germans and CHinese at my workpace, would be viewed as cold/cool/distant, direct and stoic. And to receive such treatment in the workplace would be viewed as rude, discriminatory, etc.

My partner and I giggle about this discovery of bi-cultural fit --in an ironic way. Before working with many Germans, I wouldn't have even dared to make this observation.
__________________________________________________________

Yes, my mother doesn't say excuse me in English. She just doesn't, though we've explained. Now would have any white woman thought something differently if they received her behaviour? Would it be discriminatory or just rude?

Just yesterday, I was sitting at a bakery having my coffee. At the service counter, an Asian man, said loudly and clearly to bearded Caucasian guy: "I was here first. I would like service".

He was there first, as acknowledged by the Caucasian guy. He was in gims' shoes except the pusher was admitted his hastiness.

gims,
White or black, nobody has the right to push their way in front
of another person. I'm glad you stood up for yourself. I'm glad
you are back on the forum. Welcome back!

This evening a neighbor came over with her two munchkins, who are so cute, to have a chat. I told her about the woods on the south side of our property being stripped out and made way for a pine forest farm. Right off the bat this neighbor said, "will you be able to see through to what we call the black-jack neighborhood?"
Do ya'll see what I'm talking about? I'm talking about what's happening with the beautiful forest and instead of talking about that, the conversation immediately goes to blacks. I do not get why so many white people down here feel the need to always bring them up and I can tell you that if I'd been the kind of person who would have taken the low road and began smacking down the black neighborhood, this person would have gone there as well. Instead, I relayed the story of the owner using the "N" word to talk about the African American's across the woods and how inappropriate I thought it was in this day and age. I have to admit that I've never heard Tracy use the N word so perhaps she meant waht she said...I haven't known her that long.
My point now is why so many conversations I have with so many white people here in the south so often turn to a negative topic about black people? It never ends... I swear...I just don't get it. Can someone please explain this nuttiness to me?

It's interesting to read everyone's experiences with prejudices, pushiness and attitudes and how you handle situations.

I don't hang out in social circles where conversation has that type of constant edge to define racial/ethnic barriers. So if this niggling edge pops up where you are Dee, it must be abit ..wearying. Guess it becomes like a bee buzz..drone.

However as I have mentioned last year, I used to take a daily bus as part of my commute to the suburbs for work. Any loud mouthed guys tended to sit at the back of the bus, and sometimes there was a spew of racial/ethnic-slurred references. These are factory workers. But then 5 months ago, I remember sitting at business lunch with some university-educated managers from UK...and they mentioned in a disdainful way, the Polish immigrants (and other Eastern Europe workers) dominating certain neighbourhoods. Perhaps someone can speak to this. But this was from the mouths of 2 well-educated UK guys (white).

I was surprised on one hand on the other hand not. These guys were ex-pats. with privileges of comfy salaries and international work assignments who socialized primarily with other ex-pats., not much with the locals. (I asked one of the guys in an indirect way.)

Your right Orchid, It's in the past, and I have to let go. Most importantly, I don't want to generalise. There are all kinds on both sides.

Here's an interesitng aricle:
Why I'll take the racism in America ANYDAY over the one in France...

Dee, I think your attempts with your neighbors are noble. I don't know why people are so obsessed with race. It's very sad because they pass this BS on to their children and the hatred continues.

I know..that's the most disturbing part...the children. A human being isn't born to hate...they are taught.
I remember one of the little kids asking me who I was voting for and when I said Obama she said, "I hate you." True story. "I hate you." I asked her why she hated me for voting for Obama and she said, "because he's black." And so the teaching of hating someone solely based on the color of their skin marches on down here...it just blows me away.

Ann...yes my neighbors are white. I didn't use that white/black talk...I don't think that would have made much sense to a child of that age. I try to reach them in a soft and gentle way. When they mention something negative I come back with something positive.

But, I understand your logic and so far no one is banging on my door. That could, however, change. Let's keep our fingers crossed that that doesn't happen.

I will never understand though why when THEY do it to us, it is okay and WE shouldn't complain, God forbid, yet if we even appear to be out of line towards them, even say the wrong thing, OH BROTHER the whining is deafening.

RUDE doesn't come in colors, RUDE IS RUDE!!!!

Chatty...you're right....rude is rude and rude doesn't come in colors.

No worries, Anne...she is 8.

Ellman and madaline

rude is just rude regardless of race but as to why ellman said women's race is within the flow of thread....
re-read gimms comment and in content of others in conversations she putting in another example of some people perceptions that some blacks are feeling empowered to point of strange behaviours. Would this women have been that rude before, who knows.....

i wouldn't be so hasty to class gims as racist....re-read that two pages before her comment and whom she answers in conversation then perhaps you change your mind perhaps not. Just a different though as i reading last lot of 6 pages all at once and sometimes its easier to see flow of a thread..

were is gims anyway?

Add Scots to that chinis germane list as well....but maybe no so cool or distant, how about friendly but still stoic, straight to point in directness....well nearly the same.


As for your mum i love inter cultural communication and studies of cultures. This might be were its at for going forward and clearing up the mess we make of stuff when we perceive some one as x when their doing what normal in their culture.

look at perceived normal standing positions close or not what normal. Indian cultures intonation at end of sentence going downwards so heer thought as "couldn't care less and rude in giving of a service" nope just cultural.

we gotta learn more then shrug our shoulders and go "well that hows it done here" travels good for showing oddities in own culture and in other culture too...especially funny in own culture as were else but in a forine land do we get to see how strange our culture realism is...

the polish and romaniens are latest of eurepeons to enter contry in a big way so they can be indentified as a particulare group.


at start of this post i said 100 romaniens were living in a church as they were being burned out of an area in Belfast, 25 gone home rest are rehoused.

the middle class guys on bus talk the crap....the not so middle class men go burn this families out their house. theirs the difference in class but i wonder if middle class guy would try it too if he got away with it but anyway it all ends with hate in attitude and then action when feeling strong enough.,..it moves from hatred of one culture to next that arrives in country, then the latter is not so bad after all...sickening process


within NI the hatred is still for their own still most about religion...they by poll hate travellers (gypsies) most and then gays lol and we all meant to be European and being herded into that group when theirs many diffrenses in being European.

i think UK is shutting its immigration policies as tightly as usa have already done



I am leaving NI, I have had enough

"the middle class guys on bus talk the crap....the not so middle class men go burn this families out their house. theirs the difference in class but i wonder if middle class guy would try it too if he got away with it but anyway it all ends with hate in attitude and then action when feeling strong enough.,..it moves from hatred of one culture to next that arrives in country, then the latter is not so bad after all...sickening process"

Amazing that you can put your finger on it, and it is sickening.

When are you moving and what will happen to the support L is receiving now? Can it be picked up with your next move?

Class effects as much as race sometimes.

My housing complex has 125 families. Middle to upper-middle class. I'm guessing 5 black families, 7-10 Korean, some Mexican and the rest Caucasian. The adjacent housing tract has a bunch of Chinese and Indian, who aren't in here.

I was speaking to an African American neighbor who said he wouldn't move into a mostly black or Hispanic neighborhood because "everyone wants to know who you know" and he was worried about his kids being exposed to gangs. He said there was LESS prejudice in our slightly mixed community that in 'hoods. Here (his words) people are mostly interested in -- are your kids well-behaved, and do you keep up your house appearance? He said no one has shown racial prejudice since they moved in, but other areas he's lived in have.

Celtic, is all that hatred of other groups sometimes a manifestation of insecurity of self/ self-hatred also?

Have you always lived in NI, celtic?

goodness dotsie i read that paragraph and though yep i know that situation then i looked again found i written the thing lol.

i think it might be differences between classes two but they all try it if they get away with it. trouble is middle class have more power and more likelie to employ or not employ, report or not report situation within workplaces. thir misuse or just not see the racisum within the situation their dealing with.

i a big believer in education for all of us, because without that we'r kinda lost AND good anti discrimination laws

i watched program about girls and boys in gangs, documentaries with insiders who are still their and those that were and somehow gotten out.

i be worried about my kids but like you MB i found to keep gangs loyal or a more them and us focus between rival gangs especially rival racial based gangs its very very bitter.

Same usa prison system, whites, blacks and Latino are 4 racial gangs in prison, their aint any other. Add guns to that gang mix and its horrendous to think 24 is long to live as a gang member,

i'd worry about that too MB for my kids.

i am a Scott orchid so not from heer, similar enough culture but Scotland more progressive 20 + years over Ireland because of terrorise trouble/war over here.

i lived in England and other countries in Europe, not long term like here but it makes a difference to finding what's funny about your own country, some people classed me as English ...and didn't like English because of xyz invasion...Not realising its the same argument we had with English. So that type hatred not nice (even if i was English) and not fun is a big insult (because i am a Scott)

we also got to see how other cultures operate and along what lines. So i never stayed more than 1 oe 2 years but been heer for about 15-19 years. It was only meant to be for short time but things rolled on and myself and original partners still heer.


trouble is if i was leaving it be hard in one sense i have no family near me but a comfort several good friends, and i known here so u have sum historie here. I just getting very restless with slow progression this country is doing and think i won't be here forever so move now even back to Scotland until i know were i want to Seattle properly.