Have been here on forums for nearly 2 years. The number of regular contributing BWS on this forum feels actually quite small. I see the same folks ..nothing wrong. Others have dropped out or just not posting.

I realize people get busy, new interests, new real friends. But there must be other reasons. Also some who have dropped out, have indicated to us why. (and unfortunately some of these folks would have been great for more diverse opinions).

It might be useful learn why the circle of regular posters has not expanded whole lot.

I have come and gone so much for a long period of time. When I am not posting for that period of time, I am not posting anywhere. This has to do with my schedule and being on the computer all day. When I come home, I really do not feel like going on the computer. I will do the basics and check email, but that is it.

I would prefer to post more often on BWS. It is very time consuming because I preview my posts and edit it several times. I have this fear of coming off as an illiterate imebecile.

I don't know if this helps or not, but I wanted to at least explain my periodic absences.

Cheers,
Cathi

I come here everyday, several times a day. If there are threads I feel drawn to respond to, I do. Quite often lately, many discussions involve American policies and politics and being neither American or politically inclined, I can't contribute anything to those discussions. But I have never stopped coming, and I continue to carry my Boomer sisters in my heart and prayer.

Another facet for me is that BWS used to have a greater diversity of discussion, a lot more laughter and light-hearted sisterhood. We went through a period of great upheaval and discord here, where many were hurt and when they tried to voice that hurt, some of the responses were unkind and further alienating. That abrupt and extended aggression and discord made many of us feel uncomfortable here (remember the term "tea party gals"?) I missed the laughter, grieved for the former gentle atmosphere and did what I always do when confronted with unkindness, I retreated and found solace in other activities. That might be hard to hear, but IMO, it's going to be a common explanation for the absence of many of my other "tea party" sisters.

But I've never given up, am here faithfully throughout the day, although not as vocal as before. But this will always be "home base" for me.

I do not add something to every post.
That does not mean I dont care..it can be that I have no expertise to add.I send PM;'s to some friends.

I read with interest what others post..In any relationship there are stages...and a honeymoon stage.I observe it happens here.

I also have retreated Eagle...but never from those who showed kindness like you do..

I believe this forum is like anything else; people here often sometimes begin to take the atmosphere we share here of kindness and sisterhood for granted, until traveling to other forums, even Facebook, where the atmosphere is not always kind and understanding.

As the old saying goes; To each his own! Or in this case, To each HER own!

Oh and if it ain't broken, don't try and fix it...

Like Anne, sometimes I don't fit into the converstaions because I'm single, no kids, and no family to speak of. Sometimes I don't want to cover another post. Sometimes I still don't know where to post something.

Often, my boomer sisters are so eloquent there's nothing left to say...

Sometimes I'm frustrated because of all of the above and even though I'm here looking, I don't post. When I'm away for a longer period of time, it's because I have too much pain to sit at the computer.

This has been a wonderful experience for me and I miss you all when I'm not here.

You know, I was thinking about this today, and think there might be another facet to this...many women have come here hurt and broken, directionless, weary and worn. Is it not possible that many have found healing and restoration here to the point of being able to get back out there and live their lives in new and more enriching ways because of having spent time here? I know it's partly truth for me...I'm able to get out and about and enjoy other activities because of the healing, love and support that I found here...that's a GOOD thing!! I arrived here broken and utterly incapable of functioning "out there". Now I'm healthy, happy, empowered, grateful and enjoying life (though still working through some social anxiety, but it's not nearly as severe as before).

So it's possible that we've healed people back into their lives, and that they, in turn, are paying forward to others in their lives the enrichment and empowerment they found here.

What an excellent observation Sharon. Once healed these same women are probably out more now enjoying their lives and that is a good thing. I believe you may have hit on something. Oh and like yourself that was once wounded and insecure, just look at you now, out there sharing and helping other women heal and you know what I mean.

I have hung around here, off and on for several years now. Sometimes I have the time to be here, other times I do not. I do know, that when I am gone for a long period of time, it's more difficult to jump into an on-going discussion. But that doesn't mean I do not read them.

I used to be really good about greeting new-comers, but since I am here so sporadically, I have not been doing that lately.

I always feel comfortable here. I miss some of the gals that used to post often, but (in my imagination) I suppose some people might miss me some of the time.

I miss you, Annie!

Sometimes, life just gets in the way or your husband retires and you have to wrestle him for the computer!

Did you sell the condo here?

The interesting fact is that the forums are getting more traffic than ever. Women come and read, take what they like and carry on.

I heard from a local friend that she doesn't think she can write like the women here so she just reads.

I also believe that sites attract certain types of people. I love the women who post here, however, some others might think we aren't controversial enough. Controvery is good if you are learning, but sometimes hurt feelings are involved

Do any of you email or private message the gals you miss?

See now, that's what I thought. We're getting MORE traffic than ever and to say one can't come here and have "more diverse opinions" is a very bold statement. Really? You can't? Can you be more specific? What topics in particular have you tried?

I find the women here to hold very stimulating conservations and think they are very diverse in their opinions.

Now if you're talking politics, would you like to referee that particular section? Cause I can guarantee you one thing, it's not pretty and you have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.

I love this forum. I don't always contribute to every discussion
but I post to the subjects, which draw my interests. I don't
sew or cook so great; don't ride bikes or sell houses or run
in marathons. But I post on other interests. Other than chatting with family and friends on Facebook, this is the only site where I post. BWS has new members and women who've been here from the
onset. Not everybody agrees on everything; but all have hearts
of gold! And I love it!

Annie, we leased it out for one year and will probably sell it after that.

I'm probably not the best referee for a political section, particularily when I don't follow U.S. politics deeply. But then again, it could be an advantage since an outsider has no stake to take 'sides'. The section is probably better moderated by someone with some formal background in political science and strong knowledge of North American history with international perspective/travelled and lived for a few years outside of their home country. As well, participation would be like a book club, do readings on certain pieces as a starting point.

As for trying out different topics...I will admit on my part, there is self-censorship to a certain degree because of the dynamics of the group here. Do not interpret this as bad. Each person has a core personality..but it translates abit differently with each different social group within society. We show different facets of ourselves or at least certain facets come out more strongly depending which social group we are interacting with. For instance, I am a slightly different person/show different things to:
My partner, my family, my closest friends, work colleagues (I respond a shade differently to those within my profession vs. outside of profession), a group of cyclists, etc.

I even am different, depending on which language I speak. I am much more forceful in Chinese because of language limitations. Whereas ENglish allows me to be complex, nuanced and therefore I will be viewed differently and people will respond to me differently.

It's great that others are reading the forums though they don't post. If that's what is meant by more traffic. Maybe I'm not here so often to see more different women posting, versus us enthusiastic regular posters here.

I am not so sure we're that diverse in terms of participants. THis forum is meant for boomer women, which already is a particularily subsection of society. But still, there's a whole pile out there that probably could use some casual chat here in friendly way. More than ever before, there are alot of forums, blogs on the Internet competing for attention so it might get harder these days to draw new participants unless one seeks out to inform groups of women who don't normally cross Dotsie's path or mainstream media where this site is crosslinked.

Hope my thoughts are intended to help Dotsie,....EXPAND active membership of these forums. There is an enormously huge group of English-language speaking boomer women out there. What would the response be if a group of middle-class/educated immigrant women were shown these forums at a community centre / church? What type of feedback would they give to make them more comfortable here in the forums?

A market survey would be useful one day.

Orchid...that was said tongue in cheek...sorry.

As far as taking sides, it would happen. It already has TWICE when we've tried to have the politics in here. If it didn't happen in the open forums, it would happen via private messages.

I still didn't see any different topics that you feel would or could bring the diversity that you crave to the forums.

What does "diverse in terms of participants" mean to you? Backgrounds? Nationalities? Work?

Yes, this form is for boomer women, but I will say that we've never kept other women out of here (unless there was a problem), and we've always welcome the younger set (or anyone else) when they've arrived and stayed to chat. They never stay that long though as they admit up front we don't share the same interest, in a lot of cases.

I get tickled when I read your other responses because you have no idea what all Dotsie does to promote this forum...where all she goes with info about it. How do you know that a market survey hasn't already been done?

Several members on this forum own their own business; and that's a time consuming endeavor, especially this time of year. We have
some cool discussions. And I'm happy with the overall configuration!

Well, I'm one of the ones with a business....and it does consume us...in a GOOD way!

I come here often times with an issues I need input on. Sometimes I can add to a discussion.but, like Saundra...not much to add re: kids, grands etc. My computer is my life....business, personal, research, and I have another site for which I am an Admin. So I'm thankful when I CAN join in!!

And to talk about my profession and offer sales!

"Diverse" --all of the above criteria.
Maybe as a suggestion, for Dotsie's blog, since it might be easy there rather than here..to share who she meets when talking up about her biz to promote it. I don't go to the National Assoc. Baby Boomer site, partially because some of it is product /service promotional. Some of it has less relevance ..and I'm unemployed right now. Makes less sense for me to go internationally online, to buy when it's cheaper and more convenient at home here in a big city.

Anyway I shouldn't say any of this? Then perhaps an online market survey on existing posters/interested so that we can respond to survey questions individually. Or maybe it's been done here for the forum members..just not aware.

Just thoughts. Hope I didn't upset anyone here.
It's okay, jawjaw I do go elsewhere for another women-centred forums. It is abit more diverse, more members from around the world, more women of colour...the cultural vibe is abit different elsewhere and easier to join.

But another time to chat on this.

In the 6 years since I joined BWS, I've seen mostly love and caring but a few flat out nasty fights. Sometimes hurtful things are said to-or-about someone of a differing opinion. Being an open forum, we also get the occasional person who is emotionally toxic.

Whenever these incidents occur, I'll get emails/pm's from women who didn't say anything in the forums, but voiced their disapproval to me (and I'm sure to others as well.) Quite a few of them dropped out rather than deal with confrontation and what they saw as hostility.

That was then -- and more than one then.

Now, perhaps the lack of more diversity is a perpetuating perception of lack of diversity -- in other words, "I" (not Meredith-I, just random-I) am diverse but this group is not; therefore, it doesn't speak to my interests.

I dunno. Everything has its ebb and flow.

On the personal side, being a one-woman business in an iffy economy means I work insane hours to stay afloat. Many other people work overtime to make ends meet, or to find employment. In a bad economy, people have less leisure time.

I have said this before and I will say it again as one of the oldest most active members here:

If something isn't broken, stop trying to fix it!

I for one am happy with the wonderful women who post here, many come, read, look around and leave. But many stay, thats just the way forums work. It seems to me that our dear Dotsie pops up everywhere promoting this forum and the NABBW.
I am thoroughly convinced she had herself cloned long ago!!!

I don't think orchid thinks the forums are broken. I just think she's mentioning that she'd like more women to post. I would also like others to post, however, there are so many forums online now, that I believe people find what they like, occasionally move around, lurk, and lurk some more.

If anyone is interested in seeing all the sites we are mentioned on, just do some Googling for Dotsie Bregel, www.nabbw.com, www.boomerwomenspeak.com, etc.

Do you ever think that we are so tight a community that women find it hard to break in and join us? Just wondering...

I don't think anyone has a problem posting whatever is on their
mind. The topics are as varied as the people. Don't see a problem.

Actually I wasn't referring to anyone in particular when saying, if it isn't broke, don't fix it. I was referring to things in life in general and yes, sometimes even here. Seems to be the way of the world, human nature seems to makes us want to be tinkering with perfection.

Everyone when joining our group is given a very warm welcomes by everyone and urged to post wherever they find something interesting. I don't know how to get women to participate and post more than they want to, maybe we should STOP the regular posters from posting as much (like me) if other women feel we are clicky.... NA!!! Dumb idea.

LOL, Chatty, can't help but respond with words from a wise woman I know: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Actually things only feel "perfect" only for the active posters here who participate regularily.

We don't know common reasons why other women leave and why many more won't post here regularily. Except different interests and personal schedule committments.

Number of women posting regularily will then remain small here.

I don't buy the argument of being busy, as the main reason for no participation, epecially when I already participate in a totally different forum for women where there are alot of women over 40-50 yrs. (this other forum does iinformal polling amongst ourselves) and older, some are Christian (and others are not), also have regular jobs and children. There are younger women also, since group not defined by historical phenomena-age range.

and they find time to bike.
The demographics of the other women's group is abit different, still strongly American but far more international membership in regular participation in terms of % and abit more diverse racial/ethnic composition. Hence, more perspectives, things to learn.

Does this make some people here feel uncomfortable, puzzled? Is it discomforting to ask such harmless questions? What do you think the main demographic of this group is? While we are all human, our backgrounds, perceptions can affect one interacts with others. It's a reality.

I also think there would be more women who could benefit immensely from this forum but they don't know about it. And yes, it takes time to understand any forum by observing, participating in baby steps..

Off to do other stuff.

With regards to others not knowing about it. I spend hours promoting BWS and NABBW. I've spent thousands of dollars (over $22,000.00 to one NCY PR firm) promoting this site. I've gotten tons of free media, but it takes a tremendous marketing budget, that I don't have, to do more promoting. These forums are FREE so I'm not sure where the money is to come from for promotion. NABBW members pay 50 or 75 dollars and they can use these forums to promote themselves. We are also up against many other forum communities and social networking sites that have those tremendous budgets. However, I will say, I've seen other boomer sites come and go through the years, and we've hung in there.

I like the idea of surveying forum members only and making it a blind survey. I like that. We could send it through our data base and post it here using a Survey Monkey.

We survey NABBW members, but have never surveyed forum members about the fourms only. Looks like another project...

FYI: yesterday, after doing some social networking, there were over 60 epeople in the forums at once. None joined, but it's perhaps because they aren't looking for a forum to post. They are already Twittering, using Facebook, and LinkedIN, the sites I use for social networking. However, they hung out for some time and learned about a place for boomer women.

At the end of each Open University summer school each group is asked to fill in a detailed survey about their experience..
I have witnessed lecturers I admire and repect being devestated when their seniors debrief at a meeting.Sat in the cafeteria whilst brilliant people smart from hearing what a minority think..
But each participant there has a voice..and that what drives excellence.

I have not contributed to this discussion...too near Christmas to get upset..
I do look to see what women from other countries (diversity) experience..Humlan brings much to the discussions as does EW..and I note today a NZ poster.The life experiences..Anno and others.all rich resources.Orchid and Eagle from Canada all draw my interest.
The use of language..the nuances...but the stance that nothing has ever been wrong...and people go away healed is not my own take on things at all.So until now I have kept silent.

I personally would pay to be here..not having a business there is no reason for me to advertise..but my reasoning is that I buy a magazine..and buy credits and memberships for my geneolgy.
so it follows I would pay for use of resouces

I will never discuss politics here again.and never try to explain my reasons...so maybe I have set limits on what I share..

The answer is not that I leave..dont post but I understand why people cease to post...

Orchid you set a question.I did not find it uncomforable.

I was going to be silent on this but if it helps Dots understand, I'll talk.

I have a website for battered women and they start believing you have no problems but we all know that's ridiculous but for some reason, one of the women started inviting the women there to BWS. I no longer had my safe place to share and she was actually pulling women away from my site.

I looked for another site where I would feel safe but couldn't find one so I just stayed away and recently decided to come back because I miss you gals. I still don't feel like I can be 100% honest and open tho.

Thanks to all for sharing.

With regards to be honest and open. Is this for self-protection, and if so are we the same with other relationships in life?

Example - I have sisters or friends that I share certain pieces of my life with because I know they share those similar pieces. It's waht we have in common. I might share eldercare issues with one friend who is also going through caring for their parents. Then with another friend, I might share the issues regarding raising 20 somethings because they are doing the same. I don't share everything with everybody. Who has time?

The other difference is that when we share here, we're sharing with many women, and in an open forum which can be read by anyone.

For some, there's anonymity, but for others, we are easily identifiable.

I've recently started sharing a bit more about my FIL who has Alzheimer's. For a good while, I couldn't share because I never knew who's reading and I didn't think it was fair to him to share such personal information. Ross and I have decided that since he is farther along the path, it wouldn't matter to him, nor hurt him, and the information can help others. Just an example of why I will and won't share certain information.

Maybe no site is safe as we would wish it to be..That is why I use a pen name on the poetry site I post on.Also have folders where very personal poetry is stored..

Schools used our site and gained from PM poostings...There was poet of the month..feedback from public posters.This all stopped after the site was infiltrated by nasty stuff.The web master had to shut down and build in safeguards..Also the good part when the BBC and outside agencies used it as a source also had to stop..always a rotten few spoil things.Sorry such a site as yours had problems.

The good far outweighs the bad! And I remain forcused on the good, but am always interested in improving. There will be a survey in the new year for forum members only.

Here is my rule of thumb when posting:

Can mama read it?

Nuff said.

I think that the answers to any "why" are going to be as varied as the people you're asking. I was contemplating about it this afternoon. And deep down inside, I know why I don't come as much. It's because as hard as I try to feel and talk and behave positively (and I do!), there is still such a miserable "agony of absence" murmurring deep inside of me that I fill my life with distraction so as not to feel it or drown in it. Coming here has long been my refuge and home-base, but I'm tired of leaking my pain all over the forums here, so try to fill some of the void with fun mindless activities (like online games, baking, making lists of lists, shopping for books that I never get around to reading). I know I'm sometimes in such pain that it's barely tolerable and I do ANYTHING to stifle it...even if it's sprinkling gardens for hours on Facebook. I come here first, and look for something I can contribute meaningfully to, but can't tolerate the heated discussions that sometimes go on, so on those days, I just move on to something somewhere else. It doesn't mean I don't care, it means that I'm just trying to keep my head above the water.

Honestly, I did not think I'd have stayed for as long as I have. I joined BWS a month into my post-op after a major surgery and thought I would not be able to maintain participation in the forums when I went back to work. But, I always find time to pop in, often at the back of some work or another that I am preoccupied with on my computer, which I always am. If I disappear for a period, it would be because I would be away from my computer for some reason or another.

Some would perhaps perceive online communities as a very impersonal medium for friendships, in whatever degree that may arise. However, it takes very little to recognise that there are aspects of lives shared here from a very personal level. On that basis alone, one is constantly reminded that behind forum names are real people. And, because ladies here share in the way that they do, the least that one does is not be dismissive of their company.

As to diversity, I think if we were to look into the 2701 membership of the forums, we'd find diversity in general. It only happens to be the case that there are regular posters and even then, I think we all come from different backgrounds in satisfaction of that element.

Do I hold back from full disclosure? Yes, but, only because my life is privately and professionally intertwined with many others who might not appreciate any breach of courtesy to them on a public forum. So, I self-censor on their behalf.

thx for sharing some general info. on your efforts, Dotsie and investment. Not sure if you would consider the idea of a senior college or university student in marketing course or ...community development, who would as an internship, assist you in some marketing efforts... this would include outreach to groups of women who may be harder to reach. but women who are still quite articulate on paper. I am thinking of some people who have skills in both marketing and community development that I've known over the years who can "speak" the language of diverse constituents.

Being articulate and literate in writing fluency, to participate in any forum is helpful but not everyone has the skill nor inclination nor interest. So some people gab alot on cellphone. Also it is in English only. Let's be real. That already cuts out a ton of women's possible voices. And the language here will remain in English. We're not that inclusive in all open arms.

As for everything is fine..well if it's the same core membership posting often..then it tends to be a friendly, clubby to outsiders/onlookers. Others would interpet as requiring too much effort to penetrate with something to post, vs. just observing.

Please do not take this personally:

When white only men in country golf clubs, executive boards (and still some are like this) of companies, etc.: They thought their world was just fine and "perfect". Until others who didn't quite understand their culture in the boardroom, on the golf links, wanted to enter too to join in the dialogue. The wannabe joiners had something useful to say too..

Then the ruckus or perceived ruckus started. Now we know where history went...and it is still being made, as we speak.
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Some degree of self-protection on what a forum member posts is useful but still allow honesty for safer topics.
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Eagle, it must be tiring to be here at times. Yet, there are times, you demonstrate nearly jaw-dropping strength and insistence..like your comments with Wisdom on setting boundaries. (Was that Eagle? Of course, that's her too. She's more normal than she says :D) . Would like to see more of that. Is that what living is about? Kinda of like a happy band that tried to play in tune but alot of voices and musical pieces popping out all over the place from everyone's instruments. At least the band is playing. It's not the symphony, but it is real soulful presence.

Dotsie, interesting to read what you have been investing in promoting this site. Although this started as your personal cause, isn’t BWS a business for you as well? When I think about my investments in my business and website, I’m right up there with you.

As Meredith says; “Everything has its ebb and flow”. Although I think the ebb part has increased. Participation isn’t as active as it once was. But you know, I don’t need dozens of on-line friends. Five to ten steady friendships are for me more meaningful then collecting a pile of acquaintances. It’s like that in my “real” life too. I prefer a smaller circle of friends, then large groups where your own voice and thoughts go under in the turmoil.

As far as heated discussions going on; I haven’t seen any in a long time. We have had constructive discussions as well, without any punches under the belt. It hasn’t been all bad.

I don’t think Facebook holds a candle to this place. It’s here where we can really interchange.

Why do I keep coming back? When here, it’s like I’m putting on my sweats, my comfy slippers, and cuddling in my easy chair. I feel like a part of it all, and I feel welcomed. I love that feeling, and wouldn’t want to give it up any more than my easy chair.

EW, this is spot on!

I have probably revealed more of my deeper self right here than I have anywhere else both online and offline. I know I can come here if I want to just goof around. I know I can come here if I am broken and need a shoulder. I know I can come here when I need feedback and guidance (as evidence in my post "I can't take it anymore!"). I know I can come here if I need or want to learn anything from any subject. I came here for refuge after I lost my dad, and I knew I could do that. Not to mention, some of my best New Years Eve Parties has been right here!

It is second nature to me now to be able to come here and have conversations with my friends. I can't imagine my life without this place to come to.

Now I have been to other forums in the past, I was looking for a place to come and be with friends whenever I felt like taking my hair down. Most forums were very slow, I may have received a response after 4 months maybe? When I found this forum, this is when I stopped looking.

I'll never forget when I joined this forum how welcomed I felt and still feel.

Here is what happened. I had started a content based web-site at that time, thinking it was a path I was to take. Before I put any content on it, I had typed on my homepage the day I would launch it. When I had registered at BWS, I had added the web address in my profile. I was pleasantly surprised later that day to see an email from Dotsie to personally welcome me to the forum. Not only that, she mentioned to me to announce my web-site when it was ready. That is when I knew, I had stumbled on to something different. Was it the free advertising? No, I saw a woman reaching out to help another woman, it was the heart I saw. This was surprising because if you even mention you have a business or a name just in conversation, the moderator would go balistic, that is the experience I would have on the other forums prior to finding this one!

I can't imagine my life without my Boomer Sisters! I really can't.

I love you all alot!

Cheers,
Cathi

Orchid, as for languages, there is a way to work around that too.

I'll give you an example. I really like my SIL's mother. She is Algerian and only speaks French. Yet, I email her all the time and she is a friend of mine on facebook. I use the google translator and it has been working great. I am so glad for this tool because this woman is remarkable and I enjoy our conversations.

Cheers,
Cathi

Obviously you been to Algeria, Wisdom? Glad it works for you. My dearie, finds using babelfish translation software for some German, works only partially..he still has to consult his dictionary.
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Dotsie: I have to apologize that I have NEVER looked at the "Our Voices" stories thread section until today. And I've been on the forums over 2 yrs. realize that there could some personal stories to offer up.

But this anonymity thing is a bother. I know employers and other professionals check people up in google. So easy. So something to think about later. Since I've been giving fragment stories everywhere but..that particular section.
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Getting back to diversity, other non-posting women or other women out in the big world: I think this story illustrates the 2 separate worlds of women the best. This forum is missing alot of more different voices. And it's probably related to social class perceptions, inhibitions, differences in style of how we communicate with one another (even if it's all in English). THe title is abit deceiving:

http://www.boomerwomenspeak.com/display_stories.php?item_id=1062
It expresses best what I've been saying all along.
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And something I wrote some time ago. It is written from a perspective of career climbing/expansion. Everything I have said here in these forums over the years, is partially expressed in this article. I do believe it is possible to carry values into the workplace, but it can be tough. It requires understanding the language when sitting down at a business meeting with predominantly men for some of the employers I've worked for. Even understanding the workplace culture and becoming skilled in navigating one's way without losing one's true essence. It's been a long journey. It's not over.

It does have relevance in a way to this whole discussion on social networking in homogenous vs. heterogenous groups.
http://www.aallnet.org/caucus/aallc/Newsletter/news020.html#networking

Orchid wrote "Does this make some people here feel uncomfortable, puzzled? Is it discomforting to ask such harmless questions? What do you think the main demographic of this group is? While we are all human, our backgrounds, perceptions can affect one interacts with others." I regularly come and go depending on which drama I'm coping with at any given time. Having no effective extended family, I come here for support. I could write it all in my journal, but here I get a real true cohort to help me cope. After a bit, I have had quite enough of myself, so I lay low for a while. To come here is to be here for 2 hours. It is midnight. I started reading at 10! I want to read everything about everyone, but that is impossible. And sometimes I feel vulnerable to others' pain because I may tend to carry it with me, so I can't comment. Maybe that is selfish? If I am in my dramas I cannot communicate comfort to others. That explains partially the coming and going. Like Cathi, I used to agonize over the grammar of every message, but now I am more casual. It does not matter how one writes; the forum has embraced a variety of language quirks and writing styles. Yes, this is a homogenous subculture without diversity. I've invited women here who lurk, then tell me they are not comfortable due to a perceived collective persona that is just not for them. Because EW & Humlan & Lola live abroad means that they are Americans experiencing European culture. I don't think that is diversity that Orchid speaks of? We have had citizens of Australia, Ireland, etc. yet, the baby-boomer population is for the most part an American phenomena. I may be mistaken, please set me straight, no research memorized. So in that respect, it is what it is, and that's why I am here. I'd go elsewhere if I wanted an international experience. I joined 4 years ago. Facebook, MySpace, and Twitter have evolved exponentially. Why are people so fascinated with a brief message about drinking orange juice? Are we as a nation so stressed out from war and politics that we need to be entertained by the games 24/7? The internet users of social network seem to drive toward those sites, rather than spending time here where one can delve more deeply into a topic about anything, for example, diversity, amongst her peers. Plus, there are more boomer forums to choose from where once there was ONE or TWO. Orchid always challenges me to think. What is different for me now as opposed to 4 years ago is that I feel safer in writing my thoughts here, rather than just lurking without comment. That has been the biggest gift to me from BW- SPEAK: the encouragement of women to define and voice my opinion, from one who was brought up to be seen and not heard. Dianne, surely you can buy a laptop for yourself? I was chagrined to hear that this was your safe place to be yourself, then you had to retreat Good night. minus 13 degrees F in Colorado

I read all that is written with interest.

Due to WW2 and the fact UK Canada Australia and NZ had a longer war than US the 1946 onward children here are a great force.But of course US being larger there are more children.

I have posted about Scotland in many ways.
Music.. writers..art.. theatre.. castles.. recipes.. customs.Susan Boyle...
I am pround of my nation for many reasons ..explorers missionaries National Health Service.
Ashamed in part that Glasgows Tobacco Lords grew rich on slavery.

..so when we talk about divesity what exactly do we mean.Only a few women here show interest in my country

You're right, an American experiencing European culture is slightly different than a German-born woman living in Germany and communicating in English. Quite different. Both are equally valid experiences, but different. Quite different. In my last job, it is so true, after supervising 2 German young women, born, raised and educated in Germany with home still in Germany. They were on work visas here in Canada. Totally different from Canadian-born German woman that I worked with in another job, who was raised in Canada and then lived/worked in Switzerland for 7 years for the Canadian embassy there.

So far, I also have interpreted the baby boomer phenomena ascribed to primarily for North America. Not sure about the Commonwealth: U.K., etc. Perhaps our members can enlighten us without extensive research. Was there a big baby boom after WWII?

Diversity I am speaking of includes women of colour who are also born /families have been part of North America for 2-3-4 generations. We have no Afro-American women here except Songbird drops by and then there was someone else who posted, who was here for awhile. Other than Diamond (who has an incredible mixed race heritage. Ask her.) and myself, nothing.

There is a cultural norm/vibe that does require a woman to figure out and participate. It is unintentional but the vibe is created from the women who participate here collectively. It takes time to figure it. But I would submit here, that it is not productive to say "it's perfect, let's not change'...groups get tight/cliquish and stagnate in terms of ideas and thoughts. Tendency to talk about the same stuff ie. American-based (this is in response to Mountain Ash's latest comments about lack of much hinterest in her end of the world.) Or maybe that's what people want, how they define a "safe" harbour for a virtual cup of coffee and chat.

And unfortunately because there are so few of us posting here, that it decreases the probability of meeting an active poster for many members, living within a geographic area that is not so far flung. ie. within 1 day's car drive or so.

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Mountain Ash: Maybe I'll just start talking abit later about what is happening where we live ..when the Winter Olympics 2010 will descend upon us in 2 months. We live downtown within 1- kms. of major event venues and it's affecting our daily lives abit now and for next few months.

Just talk about certain things locally that relate to other things that are happening similarily elsewhere. Why not? Americans don't ask for permission / test non-Americans for their interest/disinterest on American stuff. And I'm not even referring to politics. More cultural/historical events, activities and trends.

WW2..The men returning from war and reuniting with wives or marrying caused the Boom.

Orchid you say
Mountain Ash's latest comments about lack of much hinterest in her end of the world.) Or maybe that's what people want, how they define a "safe" harbour for a virtual cup of coffee and chat.
......


Well if I dropped in for coffee I would expect to be asked where I came from..

I did say several posters showed interest.

Thanks for all this feedback. It's so cool to see what's in the hearts and minds of those who frequent this online home.

Keep sharing...

Good morning. We embrace the concept of diversity: equality and acceptance of different races and cultures, socio-economics, life-styles, such as gay, and religion. That is the theory. October I was invited to do a blog-talk radio interview on a channel that was predominantly African-American women. I was honored to talk about domestic violence to an audience not typical for my talks, yet it is all the human race. However, I won't participate in their forums (other than Facebook) because why? I can't know the situations that have been affected by their collective culture & race.. I don't want to intrude. I've said I went back to college in my forties for social work. In the one "diversity" class students were asked to write about the culture of their origins. You would not believe that the majority of young Americans did not know their ancestry! I am second generation, so got benefit of traditions of Italians, and grew-up stories of immigration and Italian language. The younger generations did not know. They did not care, either. Just saying. Hope I made some sense to contribute food for thought based on personal experience. Orchid wrote: "Maybe I'm not here so often to see more different women posting, versus us enthusiastic regular posters here." IMO you are here often and you are certainly observant, so I doubt you missed anyone!

Orchid wrote: "Kinda of like a happy band that tried to play in tune but alot of voices and musical pieces popping out all over the place from everyone's instruments. At least the band is playing. It's not the symphony, but it is real soulful presence." As a former flower child, this reminds me of Jerry Garcia and The Grateful Dead from the days of the album American Beauty. At concerts, they never played the same song the same way, and the fans never knew what to expect. About the baby boom, my step-father is British and served both British Army & American Army. He says of the baby-boom in England and Australia. I'm interested in Scotland, Mountain Ash, I'm just mad I can't visit you there. One of the things I'd like to know of other countries is the level of interest in celebrities. Here it is celebrity driven society. As for sharing on BWS, here is where I learned how to share beyond the minutia of my day, into deeper levels of life. The virtual sharing and supportive responses, and then others sharing, empowered me to go forth in the real world. I learned to be open here, on this forum. OK, enough of me, me, me

The level of interest shown to celebraties.

As a child we stood along the street when Queen Elisabeth visited and waved union flags.I took a class to the Mall when Princess Anne visited maybe 2005 and they dispersed some to buy records and others just to hang out.Older folks did wait and watch.
Scotland was given her Assembly...maybe leading soon to her Parliament being reinstated..That drew the crowds..streets lined with ordinary folks.Whole day coverage on TV
Its a time of change..Politically.
Actors/writers/musicians are all claimed by their home town and there is a known "Jock" Pack not my term..but a few rugged Scots have made good films.When they do well or otherwise reporters come to towns...speak to locals and write a resume..for example..a local High School headmaster was found with nasty computer files this year..
so its written that Dougray Scotts headmaster was jailed..thing is 20 plus years since he was at the school.Usual media headlines.
Celebrity...we can meet and greet authors at book festivals..speak to artists like Jack Venteranio easily..Politicans are known to many of us. its a small Country but rich in interest.

It was probably a compliment to you that the particular Afro-American women's group felt comfortable to invite you speak /participate as a speaker, Princess. It would not be necessarily the same for just any woman with exposure to abuse and coping mechanisms, etc. You are astute enough to recognize the challenge or a different role if you were to participate in such a forum with women who had markedly different experiences through their lens.

As for rolling along in life and not really knowing one's family background or more pertinent, not appreciating nor understanding the context how one's nationality/citizenship/country of residence sits within the global context, as a highly influential on one's own perceptions, upbringing, cultural influences, etc., it's probably a comfortable, if "safe" but limited way of thinking/living. It is felt that one could have gr.6 education but still have a sense of history, even if only past family history and present. At least understanding the linkages of one's own family within the worldview, "roots" a person psychologically (even they knew nothing about politics, cultural influences in their own/adopted country) and gives the person a starting point to explore the world outward for discussion and comparison.

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Mountain Ash, the Royal family seems to have alot less interest here in Canada compared to 30 or 50 years ago. Queen Elizabeth II, still has some interest because she has been around so ...long. She has staying power, a kind of respect that anyone would accord to a woman who has somehow 'survived' doings of other family members. (I guess she missed being a boomer woman! :)) Whereas other members of Royal Family, there are varying opinions in Canada. Just 2 weeks ago, we missed without knowing, Prince Charles and Lady Camilla touring the Olympic Athletes' Village. We cycled in the area on our way to the market and didn't know, except there were people strolling in nice clothing in the rain with umbrellas. His visit to Canada this time, didn't generate alot of excitement.

I agree knowing the context of where a person is placed in the big scheme of things..and as pupils we were taught about the Commonweath.then in time how independance came for these countries.We were taught about Africa..Scots have long time been missionaries there..only to learn in later years how our Christian values may have caused long lasting issues.As an adult that is an ongoing process.My mind seeks new facts.

what I am aware of is that things change globaly and just as the industrial revolution drove rapid great change as did the silicon age.We are in a time of change.
Finacially the world is hit...it has happened before...The Darien Scheme for Scotland...1690's Scotland was bankrupt and forced into a Union ..and sure as eggs we dont seem to learn from past mistakes.
Discussion heightens awareness...if people listen to what is being said.Awareness can spread.The political is personal.

I didn't learn about the effects of colonization (British Empire) until my first year of university. I chose an elective course on Third World history. Kind of crazy to cram that in 1 course, because that covers huge continents..Africa, Asia and South Pacific where each country has distinctly different histories. Course was taught by a dynamic prof. THere was grad school tutor to handle our seminar groups after lectures. He was the first black I had ever met from ..Jamaica. I was raised in town with hardly any blacks.

Here in Canada there were situations in the aboriginal (First Nations as we call the 'native Indian) where some of the students were punished by the nuns, etc. in school for using their native language.. Over 40-50 years ago or so. So that type of cultural 'colonization'/forced assimilation, was happening in some situations well after Canada became an independent political country from Great Britain.

I didn't realize myself until started university that there were other different people worldwide of Chinese descent outside of North America and China. ie. the Chinese born and raised in the Carribbean, etc. Just even their English patois made them different that what I knew before. I didn't know anything about Malyasia nor Singapore until entering university. Zero. My high school history education was on British history, Canadian history, some American. Knew some of the major New World explorers..or conquerers (in the eyes of the First Nations/native Indians). That's all.

The whole situation of the U.S. civil rights, black slavery. Underground Railway (escape to Canada) most of it I read history books on my own as a teen. Same for Nazi German history..read most of it on my own, as a teen.

The political is personal because all this reading..knowledge helped me understand some blacks I met, my partner, his mother and how events in Germany brought them to Canada. Same for my parents....political is personal..because it can force a person to make major life changes.

Wheras you learn as an adult some of colonlisation facts we Scots had it inbuilt..from an early age.hence the grounded knowledge most Scots have..it best explained through humour...too long to describe here.
Even in music we learned through our national poet Robert Burns..politics...and love..indeed Russians have adopted Burns due to his stance.Folk music nd lyrics tell of emigration..Bothy ballads.(farmlads music and song) tell of the times and importantly how the serfs viewed their "betters".There are many ways of viewing identity...
There are many styles of learning and teaching and for me it is a lifelong process.
The US constitution was in part written by a Scot..an outstanding Miinister who was invited to work at Princeton..his teachings mirrored those known here.
Neil Oliver has recently mde a TV series explaining clearly what Scotland was and is..it has me riveted and his podcasts feature in thi home..we delve and discuss..go places buy books..visit resources..go to Heritage lectures..

That is why the ommision of Scotland even during this discussion causes me to move into lecturer mode..

Interesting to hear that Scots have such a good sense of humour.
I love the American humour. I think they are the funniest group by far.
The German humour is so000000000000...... excuse me while I yawn.
The humour is different in different regions. I live in the most boring region...snore...But the funniest Germans, and there are a couple, live in the Rhein region.

Sorry it took long for me to respond, I was so busy last week and what time I had left I spent on the "I can't take it anymore" topic. No, I have never been to Algeria. Sakina has been here in the US a few times to see her daughter, my SIL, and the children. This is how I have had the privilege of meeting this woman in person. The translation service has been a wonderful open door in communication.

Mountain Ash, I have always wondered where you were from. I never saw this on your profile and figured you didn't want anyone to know. In respect to your privacy, I never asked. Scotland has always intrigued me. I regret I have never been there, I understand the ocean is phenomenal there too.

Cheers,
Cathi

"sure as eggs" is a phrase I haven't heard before. EW, when I visited a family in Germany, they loved the American comedy movies, like, "The Wedding Crashers." I was a little surprised that even the nine year old girl was allowed to watch, and she understood the sexual innuendos. She got stuff that went over my head. Just saying.

Eagle,
Listen love, you're not the only one in a huge amount of pain.
I hurt so bad sometimes, I can hardly stand it. But BWS has been
a refuge for me and I'm grateful for it. Why not join me and
leak your pain all over the place. The Sisters' will help us
sop it up!

Sure as eggs, leak pain, sop it up, now those are phrases I haven't heard a lot but good advice given to help ease ones discomfort. I think possibly we are all in one form of pain or another, some much more prevalant than others. All any of us can do is share and hope the love and support of our friends helps us get through whatever is wrong. Suffering alone, silently, never helped anyone!

Understanding and love make fantastic soothing syrup!

Dianne, why would you publish such a thing, knowing that the lady was here at this site.

Princess Lenora, I do have a laptop but it isn't hooked up to the Internet and we are cable, not wireless. I use my laptop for writing.

orchid,
I don't think 2705 members is all that small! That's a lot of folks. And members here have discussed every subject there is
to hash over.

That would be lots of folks if they all were active posting members, but alas, less than a quarter of them post anymore at all. Their loss!!

I don't know why anybody stops posting. This is such a supportive site. And who doesn't need support in this ole world?
You're right. It's their loss!

For the most part, my experience here at BWS has been positive. On the other hand, I often feel uncomfortable posting a new topic or responding to an ongoing discussion. Why? I feel intimidated by some and also like I am an outsider. Several of you long-timers have developed close relationships and have met IRL. I believe it's difficult for someone new to feel welcomed into, what could be perceived as, the inner circle.

I've also seen how heated some discussions can get here at BWS with harsh words being written. Perhaps that is why some women have moved on from BWS.

These are just my thoughts, for what they're worth.

NYWOMAN: I haven't met you yet but was wondering how a ny woman came to live in CA! I love both states!

The more you participate here ,the easier it is for people to respond to you. I had a brief browse through your blog. I sense I'm viewing info. about things that interest you, but not clear who you are.

NY Woman, I've encountered the same thing (harshness, intimidation) here at times. It always sends me into hibernation for awhile, but fortunately, there is more kindness and love here than harsh words to keep me coming back. I also come more to give comfort and support back now than to seek it...which is not only a nice change, but evidence of the healing power of this place and these women, for it's the love I've experienced here which has healed me to be able to come and pay love forward to others. There will always be risk when sharing our hearts in such an open public forum, but for me, the risks have all been worth it.

Eagle, as always, well said, especially about the risks.

Thank you for browsing through my blog. If you read more of what I have posted on my blog, I think you will find it is a "mosaic" of who I am.

I came to live in CA through marriage. My DH was born in San Francisco and grew up in the Bay Area.

Very true, Eagle Heart, about the "risk when sharing our hearts in such an open public forum." I was picked apart verbally on another forum (not here at BWS) by one of the members because I allowed myself to be open and trusting. This statement is reflective of how I feel right now:

“Sometimes you put walls up not to keep people out, but to see who cares enough to break them down.”

A mosaic of who you are...
yes we are all a small part of the Whole....and no one person can be read as the same as another, our facets are what makes for interest.Most people are different things to different people..
I have several roles...

My wish in life as well as in any community the bws included is to feel safe and welcomed.

Well said, NYWoman. To be honest, I admittedly pick and choose when and where to be open and trusting, even here at BWS. There are some discussions and threads where I have not felt comfortable or informed enough to speak my opinions, but I'm ok with that. It's the same for me in any social gathering, there are always different clumps of discussions going on in various sections of the room...some I hover on the periphery, interested but not knowledgeable enough to participate; some I jump right in; and others have no appeal whatsoever, so I bypass altogether. I see BWS as the same sort of thing. And I think it's only natural to gravitate toward the familiar (and safe), especially when I'm feeling most vulnerable or lonely, because those are the people I know best, I know how they're most likely to respond, respect and care if/when I dare to contribute. I hate to think that that makes it cliquish...I suppose it could be misconstrued that way. For me, it's simply "safe and familiar", a place to find stability and footing before venturing into the more unfamiliar discussions with lesser known voices - I'm ALWAYS afraid of being "picked apart verbally" - and WILL stay away from a thread if I sense that there's anybody there who could or would do that to anyone.

Your quote makes me realize how many women here have climbed in through my closed doors and locked windows to show me how deeply they care...there are many who have emailed, PM'd me time and time again, caring enough to break through my hibernation, silence and fear. I guess that's a huge part of the healing I've found here.

NYWoman,
Sorry you don't feel welcome sometimes. I have not met any of
these women in real life. Soon I'll be a member here for five
years. I feel the warmth and spirit of many of these members.
I suppose I mouth off too much. But I've been through a lot of
trauma these past few years and posting on BWS has helped me
stay above depression. I truly believe I was directed to this
site, because I have no idea how I found it. But Thank God I did!

The secret of feeling like you belong is simple and only three words long:...............................
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Anne,
Methinks U R a very deep thinker. I don't know the answers.
Sometimes I put my 2 cents in but not sure if that's a good idea.
I do care about U and am sorry you don't have family to talk
stuff over with. But know this: I have family I can't talk 2!

Ed3,
What's chu talkin' 'bout?????

lol Jabber, I was just replying to NYwoman's post. Sorry, didn't make myself too clear there.

As anyone can cleary see, that behind Dotsie I am the most frequent poster. I began posting in 2004.

I have felt insulted, berated, argued with for no reason, and even ignored from time to time. Those have been the bad times, and still I posted. By staying, and hanging in there, I received the good too which outnumers the bad 1000 to 1...

I have personally met maybe nine of the members here face to face because they were here in Vegas, my home, for a girls getaway together, BUT I feel as close and in some cases even closer to friends here I've 'never met' in person. I've connected with their spirits, and their hearts because they give them so freely, speaking openly and frankly.

I for one read every post and try to post some reply but there are those I have no intelligent answer for or disagree with completely so I bypass those posts.

I too have felt ignored from time to time in the beginning, and have gotten angry when I took the time to post recipes that "NO" one seemed to look at for weeks, or someone would come right behind my recipe and post one that covered mine only minutes after I posted it. Grrr!!!

SO BE IT!!! If I ran away or got my nose out of joint everytime I felt slighted, or that someone was being rude, I would have been long gone, long ago...

On a scale from one to ten with ten being the very best I would rate my experience as a steady nine and a half here at BWS...

A word of advice no one has asked for, lol... You get out what you put in! So if you want to feel like part of something, this forum or just life in general,openly participate.

I may post something, and maybe someone is in a bad place that day and not answer, or answer negatively, it is not personal just their mood that minute. We can never know what has happened to any of us before we came here to post on any given day. Our life may stink right then and there. There are so many variables to consider.

I have been considered harsh at times. I am not speaking harshly in my own mind but my words upset someone maybe already unhappy or mad about something else. Thats just the way life is.

OMG! This is turning into a sermon, sorry about that. Just remember when you're new anywhere, look around, get the lay of the land and just insert yourself (like we all have) into the mish mash of the group and soon it will come as second nature.

When we WELCOME someone to BWS, we sincerely mean it, it's up to them what happens from that moment on!!!

HUGS to ALL...

I think chatty that the use of capital letters and bold fonts might be misinterpreted by some folks as shouting or over-emphasis. Probably not the style in certain forums. For instance, I would never use it for any forum related to any of my jobs. Never.

I also think that many women do take things abit more personally both on the Internet and face to face, with respect to strong opinions or a critique that doesn't agree/conform to one's own opinion.

I view the different styles of behaviours, both discreet and strong, as what I truly experience with my real sisters in my family.

I pretty much trust everyone on this site, yet I've cut a few cards loose.

I never take offense because I believe women are sharing from the heart. If a post sounds a bit harsh, then that person may very well have a stronger opinion about the topic than I, but I haven't walked in their shoes.

My best advice is to jump in with both feet and expect to make some dear online friends whom you may end up meeting face to face someday.

Orchid, you do things your way and I'll do things my way, I don't much care what other forums do or don't do.

When I am trying to make a point that is important to me, I sometimes use bold print. I am not shouting when using bold font, simply trying to illustrate what I am sharing is important in my mind for whatever reason.

If you don't believe in using bold fonts or capital letters then don't! To each his own, right? I would never attempt to tell anyone on any forum how to or how not to post. I have enough to do minding my own posts, all 17,329 of them...But thanks for the input.

IMO this is home away from home. Folks' here are loving and warm. Post when you want and how you want. That's cool!

Chatty, you are one very big reason why this place is still alive and hopping. It's you, who often takes the time to comment on posts that are unanswered. It's you that so many turn to, even when they have stopped posting here, like Dianne and Mamared, just to mention two. It's you who shows your true personality, without any fancy ruffles.

That's why we love you.

Right!

Aw shucks, you guys are making me blush and that ain't easy, LOL!!!

We are ALL a huge part of this site, and in this case it does actually take a village, so to speak...

Thanks to our dear Dotsie this is our playground away from home, we know we can come here for friendship, fun and truth. To me thats what a proper forum is all about.

Love you ALL, even the sisters whose ideas differ from my own, it makes for an interesting round table, and believe me I can be pig headed sometimes and not easily swayed from my own opinions. I simply tell it like I see it, and yes, I do go out of my way to try to post something to everyone so no one feels left out. We should all do more of that and also not let a topic just sit there week after week with nothing going on, if you notice one, jump in create a new topic in its place if you can.

Oops, door bell, gotta go...I'm going to be fostering six newborn kittys and mamma cat until they get older and can be found forever homes. Here we go again, LOL!!!!!

There are ways to give pieces of oneself in a safe way here. Hope you'll drop by more often NYwoman.

Orchid, that's very nice that you consider the different behaviors in virtual forums here as likened to your sisters. What that meant to me was that we are like sisters, too.