has anyone tried the anti-depressant effexor ?

opinion ?????

I had a friend who was on it. He was nuttier than a fruit cake. He tried to get off of it and went to the hospital.
I found a huge bottle of it with his name on it in my house. (How it got here I do not know). I threw it away.

smile

I've been trying to remember...which probably isn't much help to you...I started on effexor at the beginning of my last bout of depression late 2001, but had so much trouble with side effects (can't remember what they were now...sorry), that I was switched (after a horrible nightmarish detox from effexor) to Wellbutrin SR in early Spring 2002. Wellbutrin was much better for me, although the low libido became a problem (more so for hubby than for me) as well as severe nightmares, so I came off that one too about a year ago.

(Unfortunately, a year later, my libido is still non-existent, so that may not have been Wellbutrin's fault!)

Some of the women had a lot of problems with it and especially when they tried to go off of it.

There is another one called, Celexar, I think. I'll check. They've had very good luck with it.

I was close. It's Celexa. Hope this helps

I know a young person who was on it, has been weaned, and did well.

Another one is Zoloft. I think the key is beginning with a small dose and being in therapy at the same time to discuss the sad feelings. Just my two cents.

I once took Serzone. You don't hear of it much, but it was a miracle drug for me at the time. It began working within a few days. I had no side effects. I was also in therapy. I've said this before, but I had post traumatic stress syndrome caused by a car accident and injury.

Lion, my thoughts and prayers are with the person who may need it.

My doctor put me on Effexor when I was first diagnosed with Bipolar/Depression. It worked for awhile, but it loses effectiveness after a period of time. It also causes weight gain.

Currently, I'm on a combination of Cymbalta and Welbutrin. This is a good combination for me and I don't have any noticable side effects. Of course, I do have memory issues and trouble with recall, but that could be getting older and have nothing to do with the meds.

thanks ladies ---

i finally called my medical doctor because i was getting dizzy and shortness of breath (without exertion) among other stuff -- i wanted to rule out physical problems before i thought mental

she thought i was having anxiety attacks and advised i see a psychiatrist (due to her lack of experience with my personality disorder) -- WELLLLL our local mental health center could evaluate me if i wanted to wait 4 hrs but it would take 4-6 weeks to see the doctor -- they advised since i had insurance to see a private doctor

i called everyone in the book and it was either, we're not taking new patients or we dont bill insurance -- so my medical doctor started me on effexor (in the meantime one doctor returned a message i had left and i have an appointment the last week in July)

i started it today and we'll see what happens -- i had so many bad experiences with the anti-psychotics they kept trying on my son that i'll be looking closely for side effects --- but i will give it an honest try too

i appreciate your thoughts ladies !!!!

I urge anyone who is considering taking effexor to seriously rethink it. Get a second, third and fourth opinion!!! It may help some people, though I have never heard any success stories. I was on it and I am now in the withdrawal period. The list of side effects that are provided to doctors is long, and I assure you, incomplete. I gained 20 lbs in less than 6 months even though weight loss is a side effect.
Even worse, I am not suffering from extreme mental illness. I was diagnosed with slight to moderate depression and PTSD, yet on this drug I attempted suicide---Even in my worst depression, I never even thought about suicide. This drug causes what it is meant to treat!!!! Find something else.

I was on effexor and it was pure hell to get off of it. It had stopped working and they had to take me off of that to put me on a different med. I'm glad I'm off of it, but I'm on prozac and I don't know what the long term effects are. I know I feel better then a year ago, but I'm going into the bad time of year.

We'll see, I'm hanging in there trying not to get depressed or go into a tailspin when some little thing happens.

Sherri, this is such an emotionally intense time for you, with the book stuff happening (and that's very stressful, both good stress and bad stress) and SAD to contend with. I'm forever having to stop, close my eyes, breathe deeply and slow my pace of life down to a gentle trudge.

Put the whole book thing in perspective and don't let slow sales (if that happens) "define" you or pull you down. That's what I did, and it took me a year or so to separate "low book sales" from my self-worth. They're not connected, even though your book IS a part of you and you think that it IS connected. But slow book sales are NOT a reflection or rejection of our worth...it's just what it is, slow book sales. Even Dr Phil and JK Rowling have periods of slow book sales!

Not that I'm suggesting that Bitter Waters is going to have that problem...but I just don't want you to be pulled too far down in case it does happen.

Everyone who has taken or is taking effexor,

I was put on it because I was overdosed on seizure medicine, and having halucinations. I was not previously on anything or needed any anti-depressents.
After being on effexor for 2 yrs, I found out you need to take it in the morning, because it is known for keeping you up at night if taken at night. Well, what a surprise, since the dr who put me on it said, take it at night for sleep also. I also had weird dreams day and night-still like halucinations, night sweats, stayed up for 3 to 6 days and nights in a row, and I really now cannot remember the many symptoms it caused, but there were many. I started to have anxiety and panic attacks after I got off it. I have never needed an anti-depressent before in my life or had panic and anxiety attacks. Now I am taking Paxil 20mg for anxiety and panic attacks. What a mess! 20mg of paxil that is supposed to be hard to get off of and there is a generic for, which they say I cannot do without now, and I have no side effects from as opposed to the 75mg of effexor that is hard to get off of, and I had horrid side effects from.

I guess each of our bodies react to medicines differently, but you do know doctors get kick backs from drug companys for perscribing their drugs. My best friends brother is a neurologist in Akron, OH and she in confidence told me this and more. They get free vacations and large ticket gifts also. When I started taking effexor, it was about a 2 yr old drug. They really didn't have enough data from the general public to tell just what it was going to do, YET!
I would never take it again!

When I went off Paxil I had a horrible time. I was crying at cooking shows on tv, up for days and nights without sleep and just an emotional wreck. It was awful and I had slowly withdrawn from them too.

Dear Eagle, You are so good with words of wisdom. Thanks for being there for me. I'm gearing up for the book to get here. Have got a room for a release party, my friend Scott and I are going to debut the song "Daddy" that we wrote. I wrote the words, and he wrote the music. That will be on the same day at the same time. Still scared, but getting it together to get ready for big push of promotion. I signed up to do NaNo again this year to write the sequel to Bitter Water. Now I don't know if I can handle the extra pressure.

Right now I am so scared..it has got to the point where anxiety and panic attacks are taking over. Every drug that goes in my mouth is checked for drug interaction. Believe the depression, anxiety and panic is caused by the beta and channel blockers I take daily. Does it seem odd...having to take antidepressant to cover side effects from other med's?
Would a antidepressant even cover a medicine side effect?

Mornings are the worst...I just sit and cry. Hate to see the morning light come thru the window...knowing how I will feel. Not sleeping is another...geez.
Worse part is knowing the anxiety/panic is raising my blood pressure, this is a fact.
Which in turn can lead to a heart attack in my case.
GP prescribed xanax for anxiety, I only take that as a last resort...at the lowest dose.
Can't continue to put my family or myself through this.

Last 5 months I have been given 3 different anti-depressants Lexapro and Celexa, these two I didn't get past the first weeks on. The third prescribed was effexor, after just looking information up on the internet I decided no way.
Took Prozac for a couple of years, when my dad died, and never had any problems going on or coming off.

Called last week and made an appointment with a therapist. Last 3 rx's have been written by the clinic GP... he's the same one who let my HBP go unchecked for 3 weeks...no trust in him!
I need someone who knows what they are prescribing, what the effects are, plus someone I can see and talk to without waiting for 3 weeks.

Read a post on the internet, about anxiety and panic, being a fear of immortality.
I've always believed in eternal life...

Any thoughts, or suggestions will be greatly appreciated....

.


..

[ October 23, 2005, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: Brenda ]

Brenda, you poor thing. I think you are on the right track by going to talk with someone. Maybe you should take some notes befor eyou go so you can tell him all the specific information about the meds.

I mentioned in here before that I once took Serzone for post traumatic stress symdrome after a car accident. It seemd to be a mild antidepressant that did the trick for me. I hardly hear about it but it was a miracle worker when I took it. I noticed the clouds moving within a few days.

Please keep advocating for yourself. I pray you are heading in the right direction.

Brenda, is this you? Our Speaker Mom? I'm so sorry to hear of what you are experiencing. As for anxiety and panic being related to immortality, I never heard of such a thing. That sounds stupid; what is the correlation. Perhaps one person had that connection and made a statement. Didn't we have a featured author on the topic of anxiety? Maybe you can get some answers from the archives. What were the side effects of the Celexa that caused you to stop taking it after a short time? I'm so sorry to hear that you don't like seeing the morning. What is going on? I am on Inderal to prevent migraines. These medications can cause depression, but to such a degree? I don't know. I take Xanax every night or else I cannot sleep at all. I can't take it during the day because it makes me too sleepy. When do you see a therapist? Therapy will help. L

Plan on writing notes and covering all the high-points of this previous year.
Along with what happened and when, plus the list of medications.

Read about the anxiety and panic on another forum. The man who wrote it was saying his therapist mentioned that anxiety and panic resulting in fear, had to do with not believing in immortality.

Yes, I read everything Eagle wrote as featured author. Always find alot of healing in her thoughts and words. She has been a light several times for me.

Celexa actually caused a strange gait to my left foot, took more than a month after stopping for foot to return to normal. Dry heaves, and lack of sleep, plus a feeling of being disconnected.

Beta blocker I take is Lopressor, just a few side effects that seem to effect me are depression, slow heart beat, tiredness, trouble sleeping.
Just so happens the beta blocker Inderal not only covers heart conditions it also can be used for the treatment of anxiety or nervous tension. Not all beta blockers work for that relief.

Calcium channel blocker, I take has side effects of slow heart beat, fatigue, flushing and insomnia.

When I first started taking the med's, the fatigue was unbelievable. Some days are still real slow, I was use to going non-stop most days before the heart and blood pressure kicked in. Wish it was something that would just go away, but alas it's not.

Did ask the cardiologist about changing med's...he informed me he wasn't about to. So, until we are able to avail ourselves of another insurance...this is what we have.

I see the therapist this coming Wednesday...yes, I pray it helps.

No, I am not Speaker Mom...maybe I should change my name. How do you go about that?

Appreciate the replies.

.

Hi Brenda, sorry for the identity confusion. You can change your publicly displayed name via your profile, and hit edit. The other Featured Author I was referring to was The Panic Diaries, which was all about anxiety and panic attacks. Goes to show that the same medications affect individuals differently. Much luck to you on your appointment with the therapist. L

Hi Brenda, Ask your therapist to recommend a psychiatrist to do your meds (instead of your GP). My experience (as a therapist for 36 years) is that folks who have trouble with side effects and getting an adequate response, do need to combine therapy with meds. Plus if your health plan offers any behavioral education classes on depression and/or anxiety, go take them. There are also many good books on the cognitive/behavioral treatment of depression and anxiety. The Anxiety & Phobia Workbook by Bourne is one of them. Or David Burn's Feeling Good for depression. It's not so important to determine where the anxiety is coming from. Just focus on the activities that provide some relief. And WALK...every day...whether you "feel" like it or not. That is the best help outside of finding the right meds.

Ah, exercise. Excellent recommendation. Thanks for piping in for Brenda!

Right now I'm taking the lopressor, nifedipine, zocor, aspirin, aciphex, and nitro if needed.

Last time I saw the GP he looked over my blood pressure journal, (top numbers are high in the morning or when I'm anxious or stressed).
We talked of lack of sleep, maybe 4-5 hours a night. He's going through his medical book and comes up with clonazepam 0.5mg, woke up with the worst Charlie horses at night, jumping up trying to walk them out.
He did prescribe xanax with one of the antidepressants, so occasionally I will take one if anxiety is severe or I've gone to many days without sleep, (you can always tell by the dark circles).
Actually I was just wondering if I could take Tylenol pm or something like that. No one has ever told me what I can or cannot take with my med's...I look everything up. Or, go and talk to the local pharmacist. Even found out the calcium channel blocker and beta blocker I take are not suppose to be used together....geez! Pharmacist says some doctors do any way.
GP said if the top BP numbers didn't go down to just call and he would prescribe a diuretic, no need to come in. He didn't need to see me for another 6 months. Sounds like the cardiologist, at my 2 week final check-up, he had 10 minutes available for me...I drove an hour and a half to get there.
I've got questions..I feel like I'm getting the bum's rush. Dislike being treated like a hypochondriac, or nut basket by these doctors who can't seem to find the time to listen.
Bottom line is I do not trust my doctors. Working on insurance through hubby's work place, depends on the cost.

Main reason I called for the appointment with a therapist, wanted someone to look at the whole situation and respond with medicine if needed and therapy.
About a month ago I called and made an appointment with a woman psychiatrist. Thinking (stupid me) she might be able to relate, she was actually snickering over her note book, thinking this all had to do with menopause, (believe it's a factor but, not the whole story). Maybe, if she was sitting in this body she would know.
One appointment was it...

What my health plan offers is certain mental health providers for 8 sessions, if added sessions are needed you need a referral.
We are retired military, seen at a military clinic. Takes 3 weeks or more to get an appointment, or 3 days to talk to you GP over the phone.
Maybe, the therapist I see will have info on behavioral, depression, or anxiety classes.

Went to Amazon, and picked up the books that were recommended. Also, picked up: Hope and Help for Your Nerves"
by Claire Weekes.

Husband and I walk everyday... some days it's a real push.
Diet has been changed drastically...low sodium for me. No more cokes, 1/2 cup coffee at the most, took Eagle's suggestion awhile back about the white's, breads, noodles, sugars, etc.
Sugar is pretty much non-existent except for the occasional sugar free Nips, then a bite of chocolate here and there.

I'm not looking for pity, just help getting to a place where I can function. Looking at all options, and putting to use what works for me.

Thanks, for your suggestions...they are appreciated.

Brenda


.

Brenda,
When wanting to know about drug interactions your pharmasist (msp) is the best person to ask. They are more familiar whith the meds and hear more about their interactions. Doctors don't have the time or want to to keep up with all of this. When taking a new med, I always ask my pharamist if it or and over the counter med will have bad interactions with what I am taking. We do mail order, but the pharmacist we used to trade with always helps me. Beside, I just call and do not give a name, just the meds. LOL

Someone said paxil was hard to get off. I have heard that, but they say I will have to stay on it for yrs. It couldn't be any harder than effexor to get off of and I am taking 20mg of paxil and was taking 75mg of effexor. I have had much worse being overdosed on seizure meds and halucinating so bad; I will deal if it happens.

Panic attacks also can be caused by allergies. I cannot go through the laundry isle in a grocery store, because of all the smells and I guess stuff in the air. I get panic attacks, and panic and anxiety attacks are real. They are triggered in a certain part of your brain, I can't remember now, by many different things. Like I said, until I got off effexor, I had never had a panic or anxiety attack. I had no idea what was happening to me at first. TG my neurologist did.

I think they can happen for a multiple of reason and unknown reasons, we are all different, by what my neurologist and family practitioner say.
Like migraines, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, etc. They really do not know the cause for of these yet! Mostly speculations and theories.

I didn't realize how much Paxil altered my brain until I tried going off of it. Electrical shocks running down my arms, chest and then my head. I thought I was having a seizure or something and I felt very ill. We had company at the time and I'm afraid I wasn't a very good hostess.

When I smoked my doctor gave me Zyban, which was supposed to lessen the cravings. One afternoon I was sitting on the sofa and it was time to feed my dogs and this thought suddenly sprung into my head, "I can't feed the dogs because I have to kill myself!" It terrified me! I went off the Zyban immediately.

Let me start off saying...I changed my signature. Do believe everyone thought, I was Speaker Mom at times.

Yes, I'm sure that poor pharmacist isn't getting paid enough money... he gets more face time, from me than his wife. LOL

Just so frustrating at times, trying to keep up...and really wanting to throw a tantrum fit (like young children often do). You know...throw yourself on the floor, scream and cry, kick your feet, hold your breath, jump up down, then carry on feeling much better.
So adult of me!

Thanks, for all the suggestions and advice....I value each and every thought.
Appointment, is tomorrow at noon... pray it is the light of a new season in my life.

Hi Brenda, Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. Good for you for following up with finding books. Claire Weekes is very good. I think most anywhere one has to wait for appointments and there are limitations of visits. You mentioned taking Xanax. It is NOT an anti-depressant. It is a tranquilzer or anti-anxiety agent to be taken as needed. It is very addictive, so don't overdo. Yes, some folks have trouble withdrawing from Paxil but not because it is addictive. Withdrawing very slowly is the answer...even down 5 mg. for a week at a time. The three most common thing the psychiatrists at my clinic recommend as sleep aids (over the counter) are Tylenol PM, benadryl, and melatonin (the natural sleep aid). It's hard when your MD won't give you the time. But it is VERY common for women our age to be dismissed with the menopause schtick when there are mutiple problems that could be going on. Hope your appt with your therapist helped. Keep posting.

I take Paxil CR & Xanax .25 mg if needed for major panic/anxiety attacks.
I had been taking xanax to sleep at night & didn't like the side effects. I couldn't time it right & would be a zombie in the mornings. I cut it down to a half a pill & now I am not taking it to sleep at all.
I have been warned by the pharmacist on many refills that I shouldn't stop taking my paxil cold turkey. My doctor told me that I would have to be weaned off of it when the time came to do so.
When I first began paxil, I felt drunk. And also had the light headed, funky feelings. I had to take regular 40 mg paxil when they were having problems with the CR & it was on back order everywhere. I could feel the difference--cried all the time.
I really have no side effects of the CR--except having little emotion most of the time. But my mental state is better....mostly!!! ( I am having problems with the fear of dying alone lately.)
I am lucky that I have a good doctor that listens. And knows the family history. Even the nurses/receptionists! If only everyone could have a positive experience with their doctors.

Doctor Karen,

Thanks, for the reply...went for my appointment with the therapist (social worker) on Oct. 26. Was really hoping a physiatrist would be on board to check the med's and write a rx. Not so.
Therapist did recommend a physiatrist in Richmond, (60 miles away) someone she use to work with. Sixty miles away, on I-95 is not my idea of a fun time. But, I did call...not taking any patients until after the first of the year, plus doesn't accept my insurance. So, that's out.

She did inform me the physiatrist I saw a couple of months ago has a reputation for laughing over notebooks and such, not the first complaint she has heard. Felt better hearing that...
She could not recommend any one in town.

Yesterday, I went for another appointment, she looked a bit upset when I told her the doctor in Richmond would not be able to help.
Just not getting the warm fuzzy feeling.... I'm doing a lot of talking, she's listening but...I don't feel it's headed anywhere. Maybe, more time is needed.

Anyways....
Have been doing some research on the different anti-depressants and leaning toward Zoloft, it has been used in heart patients, plus helps with anxiety and panic. Finding the anxiety and panic not happening as often.
Taking a look at my blood pressure readings, the numbers are only higher in the mornings. Only take 1/2 of lopressor at night, so maybe I need just a bit more at night. So, I will call the GP this week and see if he will write the prescription, for Zoloft before adding more BP medicine.
Not taking the clonazepam he prescribed, took it twice and leg cramps were unbelievable. Xanax only rarely. Have been taking benadryl, that seems to work best.

Feel like I'm in a circle, and traveling around and around. Hopefully, one of these laps will lead me in the right direction.

That's my prayer.

Brenda, Good for you for keeping up the effort. That alone may help you get better. At least you're doing some "exposure" therapy with those calls and doctor visits. Getting out there and staying out there is half the battle. I'm sorry that I don't know of any resources for you but did find this list of psychiatrists in VA. Check it against your health plan's list of approved providers.
https://connect.inova.com/physician/mddb.ipc_search_results.ipc_query

This may not help since they may not be close enough or approved for your health plan. But it's worth a try.

The nearest Kaiser facility to you (where I work here in CA) is in Woodbridge, VA. Their number is 703-490-8400. You might find whether they have any appropriate Health Education classes.

Brenda, Another resource I came across. Again, you may have already found this one.

www.racsb.state.va.us/

They say they have a medication management program based on sliding scale.

600 Jackson St
Fredericksburg VA 22401
(540) 373-3223

Thanks..I'll check it out.

Brenda, Zoloft was the first anti d that actually helped. It was about 1994 (I was 40) when an endocrinologist described my PMS as PMDD. The mood swings associated with my hormone fluctuations were debilitating. I had been warned by more than one boss that the mood swings were about to cost me my job. The Zoloft was a miracle drug for me in that I had few, if any, side effects, and my moods were managed so that I could be more stable. Had I not been on Zoloft I doubt that I could have coped with the memories that surfaced from my childhood 3 years later. Of course, therapy and anti d in combination is the best model. I found a therapist, and did not get warm fuzzies in two visits. But I kept going, and she turned out to be my life line. As for your new therapist, you have to give it time. Social workers provide more of the mental health care in this country than other disciplines, such as psychiatrists and/or psychologist. After the 9/11 disaster, 65 percent of the professionals providing crisis care were social workers. I hope someone is able to get your meds right!

Called racsb this morning, they have a social worker on my list of providers, the psychiatrist who heads the group, is not on my list. Does that make any sense at all??? Waiting list is 2-3 months long.

I'm calling my GP and having him prescribe the Zoloft...I need to move past this fear, of what if's. I need to take my power back and move forward.

Strange, you brought the childhood memories up...
my therapist said; "don't you wish you could go back in time and be the child again"?
No, never, ever.
Lets hope nothing new surfaces from there.
She was referring to the sense of responsibility I feel/have for my 4 adult children, who live at home.
I'm thinking, she wants to move in ??? ...the inn is full.
Knowing me....I would let her. Probably even help her pack.

Really enjoy reading, "Hope and Help for Your Nerves", by Clair Weekes.
Many helpful suggestions, thoughts...
Normally, I breeze through my readings, this time I'm taking it slow, so I miss nothing!

Many thanks

Good that you tried, Brenda. I think private therapists pick which panels they want to be on which may explain the social worker and not the psychiatrist being on their panel. That wait sounds unacceptable. And, gee, maybe you need to clear out the inn. One of the main issues women bring to my Women's Midlife Support Group, and one we just discussed at group this morning, is how to say "no" (as in "no is a complete sentence) to adult children. Everyone agreed that it is difficult and that they need the support group to go through the emotional pain of having those adult children pout, go ballistic, disappear, etc. when that "no" is finally uttered. Glad you are enjoying Clair's book.

Great site, if anyone doesn't know: is
www.webmd.com, can put in any script and it gives the full blown side effects. I was on Effexor which was teriffic for a time, then it lost its effect. Weaning off was a nightmare.
I'm on paxil now, when I start getting weepy for no apparent reason, guess I'll try the next one. When I decide (I've been on a lot of that medication!) I don't need it anymore, I go off, am so miserable, I finally decided I can't go off...but have to go after another one. As for Prozak, there is a book called "listening to Prozac" definitely a good read if you are about to go on it, or even if you are currently taking it.Sandi

Sandi,

I have accepted the fact that I will be one antidepressants for some kind for the rest of my life. I'm not thrilled about it, but I know that's the way it happens to be.

My meds are constantly monitored and have been changed several times. One thing I've learned, even with changing your meds, you MUST wean yourself off the old one over a couple of months. I've learned the hard way that taking them "as needed" just doesn't work.

Jackie & Sandi, I may be repeating myself, but if I lived on a desert island, my drug of choice to get me through would be Celexa or her cousin. I take Xanax for night time anxiety. I don't even care to wean myself off meds anymore. It sure beats self medication with alcohol and drugs. If it weren't for the anti-ds, I wouldn't have been able to cope well enough for the talk therapy and behavior therapy and cognitive therapys to get through to me! LL, L

Same here, Lynnie! We've come a long way. Isn't it wonderful?

I took Effexor for almost a year. They raised the dosage to 300 mg a day and I began having lucid dreams that lasted after I awoke. It was like being on a bad acid trip. I had violent nightmares, even punched my husband in the face during one. I started having hallucinations, hearing growls coming from under the bed, totally freaked me out. I also had the electric pulsing in my face, eyes and inside my head for over 2 months after stopping this med. It was prescribed by a psychiatrist at a local teaching hospital affliated with Brown University Medical School. She has since decided we're not trying any more antidepressants, I take a low dose of Valium twice and day and althought it doesn't prevent the anxiety attacks, it does help more than any other drug I've tried. I think Effexor is a dangerous drug.

Susan

Well Mother Mystic either the drug is dangerous or it causes the taker of the drug to be dangerous...your poor husband!!! I just love when these dam doctors use of as guinea pigs to test their drugs.

Wow! This is a very interesting discussion. I've been on Effexor XR for about 2 years. Here is what I've noticed:

1. It did help the depression. I still get depressed at times, but not the feeling that I just want to cry over everything or not want to get out of bed in the morning.
2. I've noticed that if I don't take it at the same time every morning that I get terrible migraine-like headaches that are very hard to get rid of.
3. I've also gained weight, but I didn't realize it was the Effexor. I thought it was one antidepressant that didn't cause weight gain.
4. It is very hard to go off of. You have to do it gradually and go by the doctors instructions or you will have all kinds of mood swings and side effects.

It's hard to deal with depression because of the side effects of these antidepressants. My doctor said mine is a chemical imbalance in my brain. It's not because of any past problems. I had a happy family growing up.

Also, is unfounded guilt a side-effect of depression? I have a feeling of guilt almost all the time, even though I'm not doing anything wrong.

For example, if I don't spend enough time with my family or if I don't have a productive enough day, I feel guilty. That just adds to the depression.

Thanks for letting me unload!

I've read elsewhere (but forgot exactly where, sorry) that Effexor has the shortest half-life of any of the antidepressants, which is why some people get migraines if you don't take it at the same time every day. I used to get shaky, like I was over caffeinated if I was late in taking my dose. Interesting also, none of the SSRI antidepressants have been tested for use over a yaar, only for short term.
I think my depression is due more to having a chronic illness (I suffered from Lyme disease for 5 yrs, plus spinal problems), situational issues (divorce, child custody issues, poverty) than a chemical imbalance. I rarely feel depressed, unless it's a bad pain day for me and not being able to do things I want makes me depressed and guilty. Anxiety is my major problem and I'm come to believe there is no drug solution for that. Good luck with your guilty feelings Coffee Mom, but go easy on yourself. We're not all Wonder Woman! I think a lot of women's guilt comes from what I call Donna Reed Syndrome, somewhere back in our minds we think we have to do it all and do it perfectly.

Bear in mind, you never know the effect you have on other people. Even if you didn't get to polish the silver (or whatever project) that day, you might have made a remark or done one small thing that changed one person's life for the better forever! Little things mean a lot!


Susan

Thank you, Susan, for the kind words. It makes a lot of sense!

I hope things are going better for you, too. Hopefully, these issues are getting straightened out in a good way for you.

[ May 09, 2006, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: coffeemom ]

coffee, I was raised catholic and we were taught guilt. Also taught many good things too, but guilt was thrown right in there.

I have worked at this for years and it helps to be intentional about NOT FEELING GUILTY. We are worthy of doing what we want and don't have to feel guilty when we do soemthing for ourselves instead of others ALL the time.

There's a great book I recommend:

When I Say No I Feel Guilty. I read it years ago and still remember the title so that tells you something about the book.

Dotsie,
I was not brought up Catholic, but like about everyone else I know, I caught the guilt bug early.

I felt guilty for things I did wrong, things I thought about doing, things I really half wanted to do, but never did, things I hadn't done or even thought of yet, and things I didn't do enough of. Lots of things.

Most of my life I fought it and it only made it worse. But then I came to realize that guilt can be a good thing. Kind of like you posted on another topic about grief, I had to give myself time to feel it and go through it. I stopped fighting it and asked for forgiveness from anyone I had hurt and from my God. I knew exactly when I was forgiven. I know it's a cliche, but it was as if a weight had been lifted and I was free. I do that again whenever I am innundated with guilt.

Psychiatrists can tell you you're not guilty and give you drugs. You can tell yourself you're not guilty, and you can cram the guilt down inside. You can know full well your guilt is undeserved. But until you allow yourself to feel the guilt, repent, and are forgiven by God, you still feel guilty.

The value of guilt is that it guides us to be better people and it can be the beginning of the repentance that leads to forgiveness and redemption.

smile

[ May 10, 2006, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: smilinize ]

Dotsie & Smile,

A lot of good things to think about here. Dotsie, the book sounds good. I think I'll try to get a hold of that. Some churches can be very legalistic and they don't stress enough of God's love and forgiveness. The church I grew up in was somewhat like this. I do have to say, however, that it kept me straight. And for that I'm thankful.

Smile, I also agree with you. I think we first have to weed out whether there is a need to feel guilty. Because no psychiatrist can get to the root of the problem if it is sin. They can only treat the symptoms. Only Christ can take away the sin.

coffeemom, just so you know, I couldn't open your site when I clicked on the link above.

Hi Dotsie,

I know. I'm in the process of trying to fix it. I installed PHPNuke, and somehow pointed the url to it. Now I can't figure out how to point it back to my index page.

Thanks!

Okay, jsut wanted you to know. What is PHPnuke?

PHP Nuke is a content management system. It is easier to post articles, but you have less control over the look of the site. I think another name for it is a portal.

I finally got it deleted and have my site back! I'd better quit messing with it before I accidentally delete my whole site!

Thanks again!

I still have so much to learn! Ack.

Doesn't your heart sink when you lose soemthing in cyber world?

You're not kidding! I worried about that for a couple of days until I found a "techie" on a forum that told me what to do.

Yes, I have a lot to learn, too. We weren't born into this computer generation like our kids were. It's all natural to them!

I've read a lot of negative things about Effexor and I just want to share my story with you as I've been on Effexor XP for almost 2 months. I have anxiety disorder which my former shrink was treating with Remeron and Risperdal for nearly 2 years. I didn't get better, just worse while taking those meds and that shrink did nothing about changing them. I put on 50 lbs. in a matter of a few months from the meds and developed agoraphobia as well as having anxiety. I complained about my weight and the shrink said that the meds could not have done that and blamed me. I also complained about not getting better, but worse in 2 years of treatment and he said that people recover from things differently. Some people are better in a few weeks and some it takes years. I had an independent evaluation done by a different psychiatrist this year and the first thing he asked me was did I put on weight with the Remeron. He recommended a definite change to my meds. He also commented on what I currently was on and said that there is nothing in that medication to help with anxiety. He commented on the dosage my shrink had me on. It was double the manufactures suggested maximum dose. I fired my shrink after that. The independent doctor suggested I try Effexor or Paxil. My family doctor started with the Effexor and I've been doing wonderfully on it. I have not gained any weight, in fact I have lost weight. My anxiety is under control and I don't suffer from agoraphobia anymore.

I just want you to hang in there and hopefully you will have a doctor who will listen to you and help you find what works for you.

Jan, your post was very timely for me. My GP wants to put me on a low dosage of Effexor for chronic anxiety. I've been resisting because the anxiety isn't as severe as it was a few months ago, and also because I really didn't want to go back on meds unless absolutely necessary. But she thinks it would just take the edge off and help nudge me past this particular bump in the road to recovery (from a massive burnout/depression episode that began in 2002).

So your post was of great interest to me...it makes me a little less anxious about taking Effexor...

Eagle Heart...who among us doesn't need a little help to get over the little bumps along life's road...and anxiety, if left untreated can make those little bumps appear to turn into downright mountains...meds like Effexor are , in my humble opinion, miraculous...and I thank God every day for them..at one point in my life I was so depressed that the whole world looked absolutely gray to me...after 10 days on an antidepressant I woke up to a bright world...filled with vivid, beautiful colors that I had all but forgotten...I realized that my brain needs that medication the way a diabetic needs insulin..I hope you try what your GP is recommending and have fabulous results!
You so deserve to be happy and anxiety free my Friend....

When I started the menopause depression and wanted to run away from home for no apparent reason the doc knew we had to go on something. We tried several anti-depression meds. I settled on effexor because there was the least effect on the sexual side effects. I have been as high as 150 mg down to 37.5 mg, which I am on now. I seem to be on an even keel with them. I will say that if I forget and miss 2 doses, on that second day I go into withdrawl and it is ugly ( I wouldn't even drive).I have been taking it for about 10 years. By the way why not Buspar for anxiety? Works for me when I am too anxious occasionally.

Nancy, your voice speaks such kindness and support to my heart - thank you for always being so gentle and healing-kind with me! Your friendship means more to me than you can imagine.

I think it might not be such a bad idea to take something. I just can't shake this "darkness". It doesn't feel like depression, but it's a heavy sadness that just won't go away no matter how many flowers I plant or funny stories/jokes I read or long walks I take...even shopping doesn't ease it, and that's very unusual!

I probably will be on an anti-depressent for the rest of my life. I recognize now that I have always lived with depression. You are right, if I had diabetes I would take insulin. I have depression/anxiety syndrome and the meds are there to help. Thank God!

Sherri

Blondi, I had the very same experience with antidepressants after a car accident several years ago. I became clinically depressed. After a few days on Serzone, the clouds moved and I began to feel like myself again. It was absolutely amazing. After the first bottle ran out, I didn't renew because I felt so good. After a few days, the creepies started coming back so I refilled like my doctor advised me to do in the first place. I took it for about a year and then weaned off. Fortunately, I've never had to take medication again and I've been through a couple major surgeries and Mom's death. I find total peace in knowing what worked because I wouldn't hesitate to take it again if the blues returned full-force.

Eagle, how are you doing? Are you taking the meds?

Dotsie, I won't be able to get in to see the doctor for a few days, so am not taking the meds yet. But I'm relatively okay...having been here so many times before, I know the drill and know not to panic or let this sadness spiral me too far down out of control. I'm actually quite able to keep my head above the waters this time, which might be contributing to my hesitation to take the meds...maybe I'm hoping it won't be severe enough to require medication.

BTW, this is my first relapse of depression since joining this community (although it's possibly still a remnant of the grief and depression I experienced after my Mom died) - but I think being here is making a huge difference in my ability to keep myself grounded, prepared and honest.

I've been hesitating to go back on the meds because of the side effects I suffered the last time. But like Sherri, I know I've suffered from depression (chronic dysthemia is the term the doctor uses) my entire life - I can remember being conscious of the enduring sadness as early as eight years old). So I know in my head that anti-depressants are a part of my life, like insulin would be if I were a diabetic.

I'm a victim of my own denial and wishful thinking...even after all these years, and writing the book, and knowing what I know about depression, I still want to be able to "beat" this thing through willpower and lifestyle choices. But it's just not always do-able. And that's nothing to be ashamed about, not so much the depression itself or the need to go on meds, but the inability to fight it on my own...if I were diabetic or had cancer, I wouldn't expect myself to battle the diseases without meds, so why do I balk at battling THIS disease of anxiety and depression with meds!

[ June 12, 2006, 12:34 AM: Message edited by: Eagle Heart ]

Eagle,
Please do NOT balk at taking meds to fight your depression...and you know all of the reasons because you have listed them all quite succinctly in your post...you are a very intelligent woman...and so you know that "willpower" can't heal your depression...in my opinion, antidepressants are like the other "miracle" drugs that we have seen come on the market in our lifetime...Antibiotics..Vaccines, Anti statins...medications taken to prolong and enhance our lives...I feel so fortunate that my doctor recognized my depression for what it was and prescribed an antidepressant for me...and after I realized the great results I feel no hesitation in singing the praises of the antidepressant drug to anyone who might benefit from taking them too.Shame? never..Relief?yes...huge relief...I hope you feel that same way soon Dear Friend...listen to your heart...and let your doctor figure out the rest...and please...never leave us...we need you here with us as much as you say you need to be here...

Dotsie...I am so glad you found relief after your terrible car accident...and I am so happy to know that you haven't been depressed since then...

I think that Eagle helped me by posting as she has. I have been trying to reduce my prozac, and today I am so down, partly because of "kids" situations. Maybe tho it has to do with cutting my meds in half. What was I thinking?

Thanks,

Sherri

Stressful times...like your sons being deployed, aren't the times to cut down on your prozac Sherri...I know how upset you must be feeling...give yourself permission to stay on them until you no longer feel so "down"...I hope you feel alot better soon though...here's a big ((((hug))))...wish I could do more....

I know this is such a difficult subject as society looks at people who have to take anti-depressants as odd. It's hard to ignore when you know you're getting the help you need and it's working for you. I look at taking anti-depressants as like someone who takes insulin for diabetes. I need a little help and it's not my fault for needing it. It's just my chemistry. Something is lacking and through a certain medication I'm feeling so much better.

I hope one day that I won't need it anymore, but if it's part of my daily routine, who cares? It's been a long road for me with an uncaring doctor and when I took a stand for myself with the information that an independent doctor suggested, my life started to turn around. I still have a nagging hint of depression and anxiety, but I'm so much better than I have been in so long.

Just hang in there and believe in yourself. You have so much to experience and enjoy yet. I had lost that drive before I got the proper help.

I hope this helps encouraging others to not settle for less if you're not happy with what your doctor is doing. Talk, talk, talk to him/her and if they don't listen, seek someone who will.

All my best,
Jan1

The way I see it is this: If you were diabetic, you would take your medication for that disease. We who have a chemical imbalance in our brain need medication for that, too, if that is what the doctor says.

I know I went for years with depression before I got brave enough to admit it to a doctor and get the Effexor for it. I feel so much better now.

I've become very dogmatic with my doctor. She put me on a preventative for migraines and I started studying the side effects and they weren't good. I told her I was going to wean off of them. It was scary to know I could possibly end up with severe vision problems and they killed my stomach!

The only problem I've ever heard about with Effexor is coming off of it. You have to be really careful and do it with your doctor's guidance.

That's probably part of what scares me, Dianne. I was on Effexor at the beginning of my last bout of depression, for close to a year I think. At one point the doctor and I decided to switch to Wellbutrin. She looked it up in some book she had and then told me I could stop taking the Effexor one day, skip a day, and start taking the Wellbutrin the third day.

WELL, words cannot possibly express how utterly horrific that was...my skin felt extremely jittery, I became bizarrely agitated, enraged and very suicidal...it was one of the worst experiences of my life. It was right about then that I finally got in to see my therapist. He told me that coming off Effexor cold turkey was reputed to be worse than coming cold turkey off heroin and/or crack and he was amazed that I survived without being admitted to hospital.

It makes me very leery of going back on any drugs for an extended length of time again.

Yes, that definitely is a huge problem - coming off of it. You have to do it under a doctor's supervision.

Eagle Heart, that's really scary what you went through. It makes me wonder which is worse, the disease or the cure!

It doesn't appear your doctor studied up on how to withdraw a patient. It has to be done very slowly over a 3-4 month period.

My doctor had me on a variety of antidepressants because they were "supposed" to help OCD. None of them did and when he withdrew me from the Paxil too quickly I had electrical shocks down my arms and chest and then, my head. I thought I was having a stroke and talk about sick. I had a house full of company at the time and pretended I was fine but I wasn't and it was scary. I called my doctor (finally!) and he put me back on the Paxil and then, slowly took me off.

The Wellbutrin turned me into Martha Stewart. I was up at 4 am lining kitchen drawers and cleaning. That wasn't so bad because I had so much energy but then, I got real edgy. So, they took me off that. I'm a human tester I think. Prozac made my migraines worse and Cymbalta finally didn't cause any weird things to happen but it did kill my sex drive.

I'd rather have no sex drive than try to live with deep depression. Since no meds have worked on my OCD and I'm tired of trying new ones, I'm now being slowly weaned off the Cymbalta. I should be finished in another week. I'll just have to live with my counting disorder.

I've taken Effexor and many many other antidepressants. As someone else said, different drugs affect different people in different ways. Because something works or doesn't work for me, does not mean it won't be the perfect drug for you. I don't think we should judge Effexor or any other drug by the side effects someone else has. ALL drugs have side effects, even aspirin and vitamins. Sometimes you must make a trade off. I gained a LOT of weight on one drug and my libido became nonexistent, but I believe it saved my life; so how can I complain about side effects?

It's SO important to be closely monitored by a good psychiatrist. I was being treated by my regular doctor for years and he kept giving me more antidepressants. Finally, when I was taking THREE different meds, I saw a psychiatrist who said they were all contributing to the problem. No wonder I got worse every day! He switched me to one medication that my other doctor hadn't tried in the years we were experimenting with various drugs, and in two days I was a different person. I wish I'd seen this psychiatrist years ago and saved myself a lot of suffering.

Marsha Jordan
a.k.a. "The Peanut Butter Queen"
author of Hugs, Hope, and Peanut Butter
www.hugsandhope.org/pb.htm

Hi Everyone, I am new to this site and was glad to find a post about Effexor. I have been on Effexor for about 3 years and am in the middle of getting off of it. At one point I was taking a 75mg. and a 37.5 mg tablet along with 10mg. of Lexapro. I am now at the point where I'm taking 75mg. for three days then a 37.5mg. for one. I can't imagine doing it any slower as it's taken me a long time to get to this point. But now that I'm down so low the depression is coming back stronger and I'm worried that I'll never get off of it. I read that some of you did get off of it and I was wondering how you did it and did you go through depression while doing it. Is it better just to stick it out and get to the other side? Did things get better once you were off of it for good? Did you have any physical problems as well as mental when you went off of it? I'm so glad to find others that are going through what I am. Thanks for any help.

DonnaM,
There are a lot of us here on this site who have been/are still on anti-depressants. I've suffered from low-grade depression all my life, but went undiagnosed until my late twenties when I finally suffered a massive breakdown and severe depression for many years. Since then I've been on and off medications, usually on for 3-4 years at a time, then off for 5-7 years, then on, etc. I'm just in the process of deciding to go back on Effexor again.

Everyone's different, but because I suffer from chronic low-grade depression (dysthemia), I've decided to try to live without meds as much as possible. They do make me feel better, and I can feel myself slipping back into that sadness as soon as I come off the meds, but knowing what it is and having come to terms with how I want to deal with it makes it easier to live with it.

But if I could find an AD that had less side-effects, I'd consider taking it, just to take the edge off. Many here will suggest that if the meds are working and help you to feel better, to stay with them. Most of us who suffer from depression have chronic chemical imbalances that need those medications in order to fix that problem (and make us feel better). I agree with staying on the meds, and I know my life would probably be a lot easier with medication, but I keep putting it off.

I guess I'm not much help, am I! I'm still working through this myself at this moment, knowing that I should go back on the meds, but wishing I could do this on my own, but knowing that it's probably not within my capability to fix that chemical imbalance without medication.

I think everyone has to figure out what works best for them - with the help of others who have been/are there, and your doctor/therapist as well.

Hello everyone, I am bringing this topic forward because I have a couple of questions. Eagle, I am wondering if you ever did go back on Effexor. If you want to PM about this, let me know via a post, and I will email you because my email is not public. Dianne, I am wondering if you did complete weaning from Cymbalta, and if you tried another anti depressant? What was the migraine preventative that could have caused vision problems and killer stomach? Who knows, I may be on it! I am suffering from depression. I've increased my Celexa but it's not working. I don't want to get out of bed, but I do. I am aching inside. I can't answer the question about JOY in the active topics forums of 9/8/ I have gratitude, but I don't know JOY. It has been missing from my emotional make-up forever. I refuse to go to therapy again. Been there, done that to infinity and beyond (the tears!) I have enough office hours in therapy to certify myself! Besides, I'd be arrogant enough to tell a new therapist to first read my book that brought me to this place of depression so I wouldn't have to pay for sessions to hear myself tell the story that I already spent eons writing. "If YOU want to have ME for a client, read my book first!" I want to try Cymbalta because it may also ease the aches & Pains of fibromyalgia. Or perhaps Wellbutrin: I could use a little Martha Stewart like energy, and I'm always edgy anyway. Granted, I have been besieged by family concerns since my nephew died in February, non of which I begrudge, because ALL of it, some a blessing, some not so, but ALL of it is for God's purpose, but I don't think I should be thinking that it should have been me instead of my nephew who died that day. But thinking about death is no new thing for me...I've often crossed the line. I'm not actively suicidal, just profoundly depressed. From all my research and studies, I do align my thinking with the theory that trauma can cause permanent changes to brain chemistry, thus blocking the JOY pathway while triggering the sad track. Any comments from boomer sisters? L

Oh Lynnie, the first thing that I'm going to say is how much you are loved. I know all too well how very hard it is to hear that and believe it, but Lynnie, it's true, and ever since I dared to believe it was true, my life has been changing radically. We are loved more than we can imagine.

But that's not always easy to swallow, is it! But I can only tell you my own experience. I did not go back on any AD. I decided to try swallowing this whole "I am loved" thing first [but please note that I was not profoundly depressed - if I had been, I would have gone back on Wellbutrin]. "Embraced by the Light" by Betty J. Eadie helped me cross a threshold I'd been standing at for ever so long. I don't know if I will ever be touched by depression again, since it's a chemical imbalance and therefore a BONA FIDE ILLNESS. But I know that since embracing the possibility of God loving me more than I can imagine, I've actually been experiencing joy and serenity such as I've never felt before.

You were absolutely NOT MEANT TO DIE instead of your nephew. That I can say with unequivacable (sp?) confidence. As long as you continue to wake up in the morning, you are absolutely meant to be here...your purpose and reason for being here on earth are not finished. The fact that you are still breathing is proof that God still wants you alive.

I think that profound depression calls for immediate action of some kind - medication, someone to talk to (ideally a therapist, but oh how I understand your revulsion at the idea of starting all over again with someone new - been there!) But you cannot continue to go through this alone, and you know that. Any therapist worth your money and time WILL want to read your book, so don't be afraid to insist on it - that will tell you if that therapist is the one you want to go to anyway! But even if you're adament about not going back into therapy, at least change your AD so that it gives you some relief.

I want to be so much more helpful, but am already on the way to making this into a novelette. But just know that you are dear to my heart and I'm carrying you in prayer from this moment on. I know it's hard, but please try to trust that God also is ON YOUR SIDE and will provide everything you need to get you through this. Look around and see in your life what's there - people, doctors, medicine, support, books, music - use it all, use whatever He has put there in your life for you to get through this darkness. And please stay here with us, stay close and let us help you through. You ARE LOVED, more than you can imagine.

Eagle Heart, thank you so much for your heart felt reply. I know your journey, and that you speak from experience. How I enjoy that you are experiencing more joy and serenity! Thank you so much for taking the time to reach out to me when you are needed elsewhere. You are truly like the mother eagle who is born to give wounded birds their wings. No doubt I love our God & our planet; if only I could ever love myself.

Hi Lynnie,

I just happened by the forum this evening and saw your post. I'm so sorry you're feeling so terrible. It's good that you're writing about it on this forum. When I get that way, I also go to bed and think about the same things you think about.

I've been on anti-depressants and in and out of therapy for years. Depression runs in my family and I've seen what happens to those who choose not to help themselves, but me, I believe that if medication and therapy improves the quality of my life, I'm all for it. However, whenever I'm in a funk like you seem to be now, I don't want to do anything to help myself.

I started Prozac 16 years ago and it was helping up until the last year or so then I seemed to become ammune to it. I had a lot of stuff going on in between but don't want to bore you with it now.

So I talked to my doctor about how I was feeling and he switched me to Cymbalta, Wellbrutrin and an anti-anxiety med called buspar. I was doing well on these meds until my son got into trouble a few months ago (long story).

After way too many crying spells, headaches, and mental health days from work, I decided it was time to find a counselor. I loved the one I had in NY but hoped never to have to go to therapist again after moving to Florida.

I found a name on my ins. site and have been going for three weeks now. She's around my age and understands all the issues boomer women face thes days. I'm starting to feel a bit better but it's going to take a while I think.

Lynnie - you should really talk to your doctor about changing anti-depressants. If you are feeling the way I've felt, then you are not thinking logically right now. It's a chemical imbalance that you can't fight at the moment so don't try to do it on your own.

Listen to Eagle Heart, she knows what she's saying. And I hope what I'm saying will help as well.

I've only joined NABBW recently but I already feel the love these women have for one another so it's a good place to ask for help.

You're welcome to email me privately anytime. Just know that I'm here for you.

Lynnie, This is a long and arduous road that you walk. You might wonder about the "why" of it, the point of it all, the never-ending agony. I don't know all your "why's", the greater purpose behind this journey you make, but I do know that it is not all for nothing, that your pain is not empty of meaning. I know, because of my faith, that God has a plan for you and this is ALL somehow working together to bring that plan and mission to fruition.

You are not alone, and you are not a failure - in fact, nothing could be farther from the truth. You are a glorious beacon of light to others who share the same pain, the same shame, the same agony as you. Don't underestimate the power of the light that shines from your scars and the life-changing inspiration that others find in your courage to keep breathing. You are precious to God, a brilliant, sparkling woman of courage and He loves that you are...and He loves ALL THAT YOU ARE, every morsel and tidbit of who you are...He knows, He knows, He understands, and He loves you. That's the truth, the only truth...that you are loved beyond your own wildest imaginings.

Lynnie, I agree with Eagle and von. And I know that on good days and during better times, you believe all that. But right now you are in a valley. Remember that mountaintop experiences often follow.

I encourage you to reach out and try a medicine change. I also encourage you to come and post often, or email us if you wish. Your boomer women friends are here for you and will do all we can to keep offering suggestions for you to keep climbing up.

I will add you to my prayer list. I've read your book and love, appreciate, and admire you for all that you are and have been your entire life. Keep reaching out and know you are being held in prayer...and prayer is powerful, especially when it comes from boomer women.

Have you been entertaining family lately? While it can be fun to have family around 24/7, it can also be draining.

Lynnie, I tried to PM and email you, but couldn't get through. I'd like to clarify something, but not here. Could you email me when you get a chance? (it may have changed - the correct one is on my website)

Hi Von, Dotsie, Eagle, thank you for your responses. What I like about the American health care system is the availablility of doctors: I got an appointment for Wed 9/13 with my internist. What I don't like about the American health care system is this: I went to the agency where I volunteer as a victim advocate; the agency is dedicated to victims of DV & SA. I talked to the most senior counselor there. Her name happens to be Karen, coincidentally the name I used for the counselor in my book! Today I was telling her that grief over my nephew's death has been the catalyst for me spinning out of control. My other baggage is weighing me down. She asked me if I had insurance to pay! GRRR. So, I will take Von's suggestion and see if therapy is available via insurance, but I don't think so. These days I am more likely to interview a therapist to see if she is right for me. I am so reluctant to go into therapy again. Von, are you still taking those medications? I did not know that Wellbutrin & Cymbalta could be taken together. I guess I'll find out Wed. I do feel better that you all have reached out to me. L, L

Hi Dotsie, being with my family is as entertaining as me being a nurse on the psych ward, they are the patients, and I'm trying to get them to concentrate long enough for a recreational game of bingo. It's too hard to assemble the inmates! Someone is always wandering off literally or mentally. Fortunately, I know who I am and what I'm doing, even if they don't. I don't ever ask for prayers because life is too horried for others. But I'll take them, much like a rain shower I didn't ask for but came like mercy on a hot day in summer on the desert. You are so sweet. L

Lynnie, are there any group therapy type settings where you live. I would think they might be less expensive. Look through your local papers to see what's out there. You may even be able to find a free group that meets on a regular basis at a church. Thoughts?

Lynnie, the med for Migraine prevention was Topomax. I have a big, unused script in my drawer.

Yes, was weaned off the Cymbalta and went downhill fast. I struggled with it like mad as I didn't want to go back on any meds. Hated to get out of bed and would take long naps and the hub was getting concerned. I saw no hope or joy in anything.

My OCD shrink told me, "You're trying to treat a neurological problem with logic and it isn't going to work." He sent me to my medical doctor and we sat there and investigated meds that helped with depression and OCD and the name, Effexor, kept popping up. So I relented and went on it. It gave me headaches for the first week but I hung in there and they stopped. Lynnie, I've never felt better! They have tried me on so many things and they numbed me out and didn't help the OCD one bit. I feel like a new woman now. Hope this helps.

Maybe you could join a grief support group.

Wow, Dianne, that's excellent that you've never felt better! I'm so glad for you! I've been off and on Topomax. I am currently off of it and refuse to go back on. It did help me a lot during chemo when the chemo caused more migraines than usual, if that is possible. I tried it recently after my nephew's death for a new crop of migraines. But I got myself off of it. I won't go back on it because I want fewer meds, not more. So glad you got help! Thanks for all your thoughts.

Hi Lynnie,

I'm glad to hear you were able to get into your doctor so quickly. Yes, I'm still taking all those meds. Sometimes I feel like a drug addict but I cut down on them a while back and after about two weeks I knew I couldn't do it. I take cymbalta in the morning and wellbrutrin at night and take the buspar (anti-anxiety) both morning and night. The only problem I have with cymbalta is it can be constipating so lots of water and fiber if you decide to try it.

As far as counseling - i know what you mean about getting one that takes your insurance. I talked to one on the phone who wasn't that I really liked just from our conversation only she charged $150 an hour. I would have figured out some way to go to her if I didn't have the ins. option but luckily I found a 50+ woman on the list (didn't want a guy or a youngster). I was very skeptical when I arrived at my first appt. but she's turned out to be great. At the end of the first visit I had the urge to hug her but thought better of it but then she reached out and hugged me. That sold me.

I hope you can find somebody that will be a good fit for you as well and it won't cost you an arm and a leg.

I'll check the forum tomorrow night. I wish you well with the doctor.

Take care.

Lynnie, how about Dianne's suggestion of a grief support group? I think that's a good one.

As far as the medicine goes, taking less is only helpful if it makes you feel better. If you could take one more that would make all the difference in the world, why not?

Hi, and thank you for all your responses. I scared myself by slipping into suicide ideation like that! I'll be starting on Cymbalta, which may help to alleviate symtoms of Fibromyalgia as well, including aches & pains. here's the irony of grief support groups: I used to facilitate them as a social worker: writing the curriculum, gathering the group, etc. It's so easy for me to listen to others and I tend to ignore my own needs in group. But I will see what is available instead of making excuses. Von, I am glad you found a counselor! That's amazing.

Hi Lynnie,

Your message sounds more upbeat tonite - that's a good sign.

Good luck with the Cymbalta, it should bring up your mood. It's been great for me, other than the setback I had when my son got into trouble, but I think I would have been 100 times worse had I not been on it. And, after only three sessions with the counselor I feel I'm on the right track again. At my next session we're going to work on relaxation techniques that will hopefully lessen my tension headaches.

You mentioned you used to facilitate support groups. My sweetie constantly tells me I'm a much better friend to everybody else than I am to myself. It sounds like you are too.

You seem to be heading in the right direction, Lynnie, keep up the good work - and - maybe both of us should try being a friend to ourselves.

Anne, sometimes the side effects are worse than the original symptoms.

Do you ever hear those commercials on TV for drugs? It seems like the list of possible side effects takes more time than the promotion for the drug.

Von, I've never searched for studies indicating that massage alleviates depression, but who needs a study to let you know what makes you feel better? I successfully made the transition from Celexa to Cymbalta. I had no "withdrawal" symptoms, and so far no side effects from Cymbalta. I am better able to get out of bed in the morning without feeling weepy and/or worthless. It's not all about meds. I did get feedback that helped to boost my mental health.

Von, I don't know how I missed your post - blame it on living between two households these days!

When I went through my last breakdown/depression, my doctor did send me to massage therapy. While it was soothing, I would not have said it was doing anything for my depression. But early one morning I went in for an hour-long back massage. Just minutes into it, I started crying. He kept massaging, I kept sobbing. I was somewhat embarrassed, but the therapist was ecstatic - told me, "it's working, it's working". Well, I sobbed for the entire hour, non-stop, and when I got up from the table, he asked me if I knew where the tears had come from. As we delved a little further, I realized for the first time that morning that that particular day was the fifth anniversary of my Dad's death. Up until that morning, I had been suffering unrelenting grief over my Dad's sudden death, but since that massage, I haven't experienced that profoundly overwhelming sadness again - I think it's safe to say that I was healed of that pain.

I never went back for another massage, though I probably should have, to let him work on the grief over my Mom's death! But I haven't felt the need for a massage since that morning. I'll know when it's time to go back.

Wow, Eagle, what an experience. I have friends who are massage therapists and they say that an experience such as yours may often happen. As you know, our muscles hold memory, and you had quite the release. Since I was a victim of DV and CSA, it took an awful lot for me to go to massage because touch was a trigger for me, especially in vulnerable half-naked positions. But my chiropractor had offered it to me in adjunct therapy to neck pain and migraines. At first, I was too tense and hyper-vigilent to enjoy the massage. I've since learned to relax, and to distinguish the sensations of good, therapeutic touch. I try to go once a month now. I had regular massage during cancer because my body was so poked and prodded and I needed a balance of good touch. The massage therapist was so in tune to being gentle. I was so grateful that I had let go of my old muscle memory of bad touch in order to experience the good. Massage has turned out to be so beneficial as a healing method for whatever ails!

Lynnie, I can understand your reluctance to get a massage - I've never been abused but was always too "hyper-vigilent" and nervous about being inappropriately touched to enjoy going for massage therapy before. Even after such an enjoyable massage experience with this particular therapist, I still tend to be cautious.

But I've been trying to convince my brother to go. He's torn. He would definitely enjoy a gentle soothing massage, but not a rough one - even if it was meant to be therapeutic. I think he just doesn't want to take the chance right now. Maybe after a few more chemo treatments!

I like a gentle massage but no matter how plainly I tell them I want their gentle touch, they find knots in my back and start digging. It just frustrates me so much! If they would be soft, I might relax and the knots would go away but noooooooo...they have to work them out! I felt like I had been beat up after the last one.

We were at a resort and I was in need of a massage but they only had a male available so I reluctantly said okay. His name was Pat and he was from Russia. You know how your face fits in that little hole when you're on your stomach? Well, his sneakers smelled so bad and I couldn't get away from the stench while he was working on that part of my body. What an experience!

Wow, Dianne, what an awful stinky experience! Massage should not hurt. If you feel like you've been beat, never go back. I can't/won't get a massage from a male. That's just the way it is and will be. Eagle, have you asked around your brother's area for a massage therapist? What is he doing for himself that can help him feel in control of his body when the whole world seemingly has their hands on it with needles & syringes?

Lynnie, my brother is still too weak to do much more than sleep/rest all day. It's very difficult for him to even cook for himself, much less get out to a massage therapist right now. I guess the thing he does these days to help himself feel some control is "nothing", because that's what gives him the most pleasure right now - a "best" day for him is one where he doesn't have to go anywhere, doesn't have to take a shower, doesn't have to get dressed and can just stay home in bed/on the couch all day. We can see the toll that any activity takes on him, so are increasing the amount of time we spend with him. I'm living at his place 4-5 days a week now. We can see the difference it makes in his morale.

So I don't think he'll be going for a massage anytime soon - but I hope to convince him to go eventually. I massage his feet now and then at home, and during his chemo treatment...he loves that, and it helps the circulation flow too - so I always tell him how much nicer it would be if his BACK were getting massaged like that too!