I recently read a book "A Million Little Pieces". It's a true story about a 23 yr old addict that goes through 16 days of intense drug and alcohol rehab. It's gritty, rough, but shows it like it is; not a pretty painted picture for the faint hearted or pure. Although it has had a lot of media attention regarding truth v/s fiction, there is solid truth the merits and realities of day to day living in a rehab program.

What it also shows is how the 12 step program works. It got me thinking how this program would be of value to those with other problems such as mental illness or other types of addiction, including food, cigarettes, gambling, you name it.

I've already started. It feels great. I'm getting positive responces. I feel lighter. I know it's not a cure, but I feel more accepting of myself in something I can't change. I can change the way people remember me.

If you have anyone in the family with drug or alcohol problems you should read this book. It gives great insight into the users state of mind even if the facts are not 100% true.

[ February 24, 2006, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: suzieq ]

I have a dear friend who is bipolar. It pains me to see the negative image he has of himself. He is on medication. I can see how other people don't understand his situation. They take their own good mental health for granted and totally disregard what this man is going through. That angers me. While I can see how he affects others I knew him before he was this way and he doesn't bother me at all.

He's had heart by-pass surgery (trauma to the body can bring on depression) and all his family members are dead except a niece and nephew who refuse to have anything to do with him. He lost his job (he quit). His girlfriend who he lived with for many years left him. He was married before this but she left after his first heart attack when he was 43. He's 61 now.

Right now he is all alone but does try to get out with the few friends he does have. I do worry about him because he's on disability and must go to the Veterans hospital for any health care he requires. He needs to see a cardiologist as well.

I know I have veered off of your subject, so sorry. Do you think you could post those 12 steps? I will copy them and give them to him at the right time.

[ January 17, 2006, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: ladybug ]

The twelve steps worded alittle differently to fit our circumstances would be:

1. We admitted we are powerless over our emotions - that our our lives had become unmanageable. We sought the necessary psychiatric help.

2. We came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could help, along with the proper medications, to restore saniity.

3. Make a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of a Higher Power as we understand it.

4. Make a searching and fearless inventory of ourselves.

5. Admit to the Higher Power, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Be entirely ready to have our High Power remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly ask Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Make a list of all the persons we had harmed, caused trouble for, and became willing to make amends to all of them.

9. Make direct amends to such people whenever possible, except when to do so would injure them or yourself.

10. Continue to take personal inventory, and when we are wrong, promptly admitt it.

11. Seek through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with our Higher Power as we understand it, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakinging as a result of these steps, we try to carry this message to others and to try to practice these principals in all our affairs.

Thanks so much suzieQ. I will write these down and wait for the right time to present them to my friend.

I think he needs to hear too, that he is a valued, worthwhile person don't you think?

Ladybug, I also wanted to say your friend is lucky to have a friend like you. It's not easy to find people that truely understand mental illness. Those with good mental health take it for granted and are less tolerant of the mood swings and depression.

Feeling non-productive doesn't do much for the self-esteem. Not having family or many friends really intensifies flare-ups.

My thoughts and prayers are with him, especially his physically health. Get that under control and with a good friend like you on his side, and some positive thinking the rest will fall into place.

Tell him another helpful technique is journaling. Just write everything good or bad that comes to your mind. It's sort of like self therepy.

[ February 24, 2006, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: suzieq ]

Thank you suzieq. I think that maybe many well-meaning people are so busy in their own lives to make them impatient with another person suffering from any form of depression. After all, in order to truly listen to one suffering from depression you must take your time and be kind and patient. I do have the time to listen to someone who is in need of another just to be there to listen.

I have two other friends as well who suffer from depression. They know they can call me or stop here anytime and I'll drop whatever I'm doing to listen to them. I'll put up a pot of coffee and make sure they have something to eat if they want to. Oh I've had the comments from other people that go something like this,"how can you stand to listen to that, she's not wrapped too tight." This just makes my blood boil.

Have you ever thought that all you wanted was for a person to be kind to you and take a little of their time to listen to you? After my husband had his stroke and I was well aware that I was suffering from a mild form of depression, all I wanted was for my close friends to listen to me and tell me everything would get better, as it has. I caught myself being angry and resentful of people who I thought were my friends but never even called once after learning about his stroke.

It was the two closest friends I have who lent me their ears and a shoulder to cry on. Sometimes it can do wonders can't it?

A person suffering from depression IS a worthwhile and valued individual. They just need someone to remind them of that.

Can I do that for you suzieq? you ARE a worthwhile and valued woman. Your daughter loves you, is that not enough right there?

Please keep posting here and I will try to come each day and talk to you.

Try to understand your husband because perhaps it is very difficult for him but only because he cannot give you the answers that you seek. It doesn't mean he doesn't care.

I'm a good listener, I always have been. I learned it from those kind enough to listen to me at the times of my own life when I needed it.

I wish you could feel this (((( HUG )))) and know that it's truly meant for you and your entire family.

Thanks so much and a big (((HUG))) back!!!

I just caught that hug! Thank you!!!!!

suzieQ do you notice if your depression gets worse or is harder to deal with when you are very stressed out?

Yes. I can be on the up side of the bipolar. I like it there and often avoid telling my doctor about it cause I know she will try to "stabilize" me which means knocking me down a notch or two. I know when I'm too manic and I'll call her then, but alittle feels good. The only problem is stress can knock me down into a depressed state really quick. If I'm lucky I'll pull out of it with rest. I've had a few occasions in the pass few years where the depression was severe. Nothing seemed to help. This is a common pattern among bipolars bears as we refer to ourselves.

[ February 26, 2006, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: suzieq ]

Think when you lack sleep, it throws you entire body out of whack. Know it does mine.
Glad to hear your sleeping well now.

Suzie and Ladybug, may i join you for a moment ?
...i think you said okay.. i would just like to add that you have each mentioned things that are quite legitamate reasons to get depressed.. i think depression is often anger turned inwards, because if we even expressed our anger in words the consequences or situation would even be made worse? As women, mothers, wives, we're always expected to be calm, rational, understanding..... and yet,deep inside, we'd like to say outloud... damn it, what's going on here, this is an outrage, or no longer tolerable, or smarten up, or whatever .... but we dont want to make matters worse, or hurt someone's feelings.. and just continue to try and make the best of bad situations, but without encouragement, without play, and laughter.. the depression becomes deeper... ...

I think you're right Norma, because that's how it was for me when I had a mild depression.

Many of you probably don't know that one of America's greatest presidents was diagnosed with depression. It was Abraham Lincoln. The death of a son made it worse. It is also believed that Mary Lincoln his wife, also suffered from depression.
Think of that, Abraham Lincoln suffered from depression!
suzieq, just keep on posting here. You've got a nice group of supporters.

On the mark, Norma! That's exactly what caused my severe depression and that of many others. I had just been diagnosed with cancer, my father died and I kept pretending I was coping with everything. I've since learned that it's not my job to either solve everyone problems or to cope perfectly with all situations. What a relief it was to learn to say, "I can't handle this right now." I now do the best I can and like myself a lot better.

Brenda, Norma and Jackie, thank you for giving your support and helpful comments to our suzieq.

suzieq, tomorrow I'll be going down to Amish country to shop for some special food items. If you don't see any posts from me early on you'll know why. I will post as soon as I get back.

Until then ((((HUGS))))

[ January 18, 2006, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: ladybug ]

Suzie, you said 'feeling non productive doesn't help the self esteem'..i have often felt the same way... but you'll notice the message of being
...'a failure' 'not good enough', is constantly sent throughout our societies... 'oh, just a wife and mother','oh, just a clerk'..and it goes up the ladder .. the nurse isn't a doctor, the doctor 'just a MD' not a specialist....the teacher not 'a principal'..the business has only one store..etc.... Most people are tremendously successful and in ten thousand ways, but the reverse is drummed into us.

Each act of kindness, is the true mark of success..(in my opinion) and more productive than will ever be appreciated in this world.

[ January 19, 2006, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: norma ]

Gosh Ladybug, do you think they had it right about Abraham Lincoln? I'd think anyone in his position, would be using every means possible not to drown in absolute despair, considering the circumstances and sufferings he knew others were facing.

To me, it is the healthy mind, the deep and caring heart, which reaches beyond oneself, that becomes devasted in certain situations...

But how to heal from devastation, how to return to life, hope, some form of peace and a measure of enjoyment?

Jackie .. did you also find it hard to say no at first, and feel guilty about it? I sure did. But i dont think i often tried my best though ... unfortunately,i concluded early on that it didn't seem to matter if i gave my best, someone would always find fault with whatever... (not too smart a conclusion on my part) ....

[ January 19, 2006, 03:42 AM: Message edited by: norma ]

Back in "those days" what means did they really have?

Back then to admit you had depression would've been a disaster maybe.

I have read that people were just labeled unfairly as crazy if they had any sort of mental issues. Their families unjustly had them committed to those lonely, horrible asylums where they were drugged into a stupor. That was AFTER Abraham Lincoln's days so what would have been done for him? I think he had no options for care of his mental health.

suzieq, I want to mention again that I have seen great strides since your arrival to BWS. I beleive God is at work in you.

Might I recommend something? Many summers ago I began a gratitude journal.

When I first began, I could only think of a couple things to jot down. As time marched on, I came to realize that we can truly give thanks in all things and I couldn't stop listing my praises. It's a life changing exercise. It trains your mind to look for the good in everything.

I hope you'll give it a try.

I'm so glad you're here.

Norma,

Learning to say "no" forcefully enough so the people who I'd been caving in to believed I meant it was one of the hardest things I've ever done. For a while I went the other way and was saying no to almost anything. Once I learned when to use it appropriately, it became second nature.

Sue, I'm really confused now. If all who communicate with people they don't know on the internet are mentally ill, there must be an awful lot more mental health problems out there than anyone realizes. Also, my therapist told me that writing my story, or anything else, would be one of the most productive and useful things I could do. Frankly, I don't understand where your mental health professionals are coming from. I would find new ones if I were you.

One thing for certain Sue, it's obvious from your postings, that you've got one fine intellect, and express yourself clearly. The paralysis you experienced must have been terrifying and a grand mal in itself, without the resulting head injury from falling indicates a definite physical problem of concern, whether it was because of a high fever, infection or problems such as epilepsy.

Apart from recording family history, writing down one's life story enables us to put very troubling memories away from the front of our mind. It becomes perserved on paper, and in a very real sense we can free ourselves from having to go over and over it in our minds so that cetain things are not forgotten. A second sense of betrayal can evolve if something criminal, unjust, or however troubling is completely forgotten, or passed over..

Libraries exist because of life's experiences and the knowledge which can be gleaned from those experiences.

I have to go out, but Sue, be encouraged okay....

[ January 19, 2006, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: norma ]

suzieq, I am back! I thought about you a lot today as I was freeing myself from my own dark thoughts which I do get from time to time.

I really got angry reading what your doctor said and the asumptions other ones had about you. I guess all of us posting on this website need psychiatrict care according to his assessment. Doctors aren't God and cannot and donot know everything. Each of us is an individual. Frankly, we could all do without doctors like the ones you've described.
I think writing your story or writing in a journal is very therapuetic.
He's even labeled you by saying "you people." You're not a leper to me. Please throw this doctors advice and words right in the garbage where they belong.
You will get better day by day. If it's a nice day where you are now take a walk outside and really take notice of everything around you. Sometimes a walk may help release endorphins which can make you feel a bit better. I know we're all different and what works for one doesnot work for all but I do know it feels good to be outside walking.
Please let me know how you are feeling today. I want to hear from you.

[ January 19, 2006, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: ladybug ]

Sue, I'm with the others. You've found very healthy ways to deal with your bipolar. If you're able, I'd search for new health care providers.

My doctor has actually encouraged me to write while I'm in a depressive cycle. He says it's a form of release and a way to help maintain my creativity. Smart guy? I think so.

Having bipolar has put a bit of a damper in my writing. While I'm stabilized, and wouldn't change it for the world, I do miss the manic side where I'd have hundreds of ideas at a time and the writing flowed for hours.

Sometimes, I'm afraid I've medicated my creativity away.

Just want to say, I sure agree with you Ladybug, about the terrors of treatment during Lincoln's time, and afterwards .. i was thinking that he may have thrown himself deeper and deeper into his work, probably kept reams of thought in private journals, and undoubtedly kept searching through the writings of his religious convictions, trying to find answers, and or some form of inner peace.

[ January 19, 2006, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: norma ]

Vicki, you do have a smart doctor. I wish suzieq could have him as her doctor.

Vicki, I wonder if your doctor could suggest a good one for suzieq even though she doesn't live where you do.

suzieq, my mom called me frantic one afternoon because her doctor's receptionist, of all people, really upset her by saying to her, "you might have cancer." Of Course she didn't have cancer the receptionist was just being a B-witch.

These are pathetic people who have no business being anywhere near the medical profession. Since the idea of cancer strikes fear in most people and they know this you have to ask yourself why she said this to you? I agree, it's time to seek out a new doctor. Have you done any research on line about those ECT treatments to see if they are the cause of these lesions? I wouldn't be surprised to learn if they are the cause.
I really do wish I could just sit and talk with you. You seem fine to me but you are dealing with so much stress it's simply put you on overload.
There are no simple, easy answers here. But I do know the support of friends and just talking about what you're going through can be a big help. I hope that we here are helping in some small way. There are some of the very best and finest ladies here offering you whatever they can.

You are a good person. Keep writing.

(((( HUGS ))))

[ January 19, 2006, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: ladybug ]

See what I mean suzieq about causing uncessary pain and fear to a patient? I've seen and heard it happen over and over again.

How are you this morning? I can really "hear" the change in your demeanor and you DO sound happy and uplifted.

Again, while taking my morning walk I thought about you and what I could say to you to help you feel you are not alone. One of the women on my street is a psychologist that offers sessions of counseling in her home. You would like her very much. Guess, what? She suffers from depression and takes meds for it as well. I'm really curious now as to what she'd think about the comments your doctor is making to you?
Sooner or later this branch of medicine is going to have to realize that some of their methods are not effective enough in dealing with mental health. I wonder too, if research money is slow in coming to new methods of treatment.
There have been numerous articles in our Plain Dealer bemoaning society's attitude toward people suffering from depression and other forms of mental illness. I'm sorry but I still can't understand why this cruel, insensitive attitude prevails.
I'm pleased suzieq, that out of a bad experience came a good one. I'm just sorry that you had to experience such a frightening one first. At least this group of doctors mended their errors.
I'm hoping each day finds you happier and stronger. I think it can be so. I think the key is finding people to talk to who don't make you feel odd or uncomfortable to discuss it with.
There are hundreds of thousands of people in our country alone who at some point in their lives have or will have suffered some form of mental illness. With numbers like that we can't afford to be cruel and insensitive to one another. The joking must stop in order for people to take this illness more seriously.

Ladybug, you're so right. It's time to take the blinders off when it comes to dealing with Mental Illness. People think "Crazy" and "criminal" too often when they hear that someone has a mental illness. Those people have such narrow minds.

I don't tell everyone that I have Bipolar. The reason? Mostly because it's not any of their business, but also because I don't want the stigma of having a mental illness and being treated differently.

Especially, because bipolar has made a lot of news lately, and not for good reasons. Look at the guy who said he had a bomb on that flight in Miami? He was bipolar. People hear bipolar and automatically think "unstable".

But, I'm not unstable. Darn it. I've been stable for quite a while now; more than year. It took some time getting there to find the right combination of meds, but that's common in bipolar. Meds don't work the same on every person, so it takes some time to work out the right combination.

Susieq, I think it's imperative that you find a health provider that you feel comfortable with and who doesn't treat you the way your current providers treat you. Do you have the ability to change doctors? Sometimes, depending on health care coverage, you have to work within their systems. It's also scary finding a new doctor. You have to transfer records, go through the questions again, and get used to a new personality.

Speaking of the SERENITY prayer. My doctor says that's how I should live my life with bipolar. He says don't dwell on things I have no control over. I should live for the now and not worry about what might happen.

Did I mention I like my doctor? :-)

You've got a good doctor Vicki. I'm glad to hear of the successes you've had with the help of a good doctor. It's vital to your well-being to be under the care of a good doctor who really knows his field and practises it with compassion.

You know when I hear of the story you mentioned I never think the person is "crazy" I often think their meds are the cause of the bizarre behavior and totally unsuited for them. My neighbor had to try different antidepressants and even different dosages to finally get it right. How many people suffering from mental illness are walking around right now taking meds in the wrong dosage or completely unsuited to their needs? I think these are the unfortunate people making the headlines simply because of the wrong medication they are taking.

[ January 20, 2006, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: ladybug ]

Vicki, it's sad to hear that one of the reasons you do not like to tell people that you are bipolar is because of the way they might treat you. Unfortunately this does say a lot about our society in general and it's not good is it?

We don't make fun of people with cancer and diabetes or heart disease so why do people react this way to mental illness?

My dearest friend is bipolar and the words unstable, criminal or crazy when thinking about him never enter my mind. He's as stable as anyone else that I know. He's polite, talented and friendly. He'll do anything for you if you ask. There are many "stable" people I know who don't even come close to the kindness of this person.

How can we get society to stop thinking this way about mental illness. The biggest question is, why do they???

They do because we only sensationalize in the news the negative side of mental illness.

No one does a news story on the positive side. No one goes around looking to see who's stable and announce it to the world.

Stablility is normal. Normal is not news.

That's something I have noticed too Vicki. All we get blasted with is a sensationalized story. The media loves to spice it up as well. You're right, normal is not news.


My friend, who is bipolar is my brother's best friend from first grade. His dad was alcoholic and left them when his five year old sister died of pneumonia. He was then a fixture in our house, a forth child. He does water color art, golfs, is very funny and at one time was one of the top ten hairstylists in the U.S.

He's not unstable and my husband and I both enjoy having him around. I wish some of my more "stable" friends were like him. He's very easy to be around. He doesn't sap my spirit and energy. He's just good to be around. Our kids like him too.

suzieq, I'm here by myself right now and truly enjoying the peace and solitude talking to you.

You do not need to try to let these nasty uncalled for remarks "roll off of your back" or even try to understand why they are said. The ones who are saying it are angry unto themselves and casting it off on you.

I think what's happening here is that when everyone is in a "funk" it sets off a domino effect. This is when everyone is attacking you. I think then that it's good to get away from each other. It's good then that they are out. The time out will give them a better attitude when they get back. Maybe your husband knows this too and feels that taking the daughter out gets her off of your back.

I wish you weren't feeling like this today but suzieq, all of us do from time to time.

Do you have any state parks or reservations? Yesterday I went hiking several miles from 12:30 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. It did wonders for my spirit and energy and best of all, didn't cost a cent except when we stopped in a restaurant to eat.

Please, even if you don't feel like it smile. Keep smiling. See if it works even a little to help you feel better. I'm going to go get a cup of coffee. Have one with me while we talk about this.

SuzieQ, please understand again that the attacking comments made by family members are made because they are unhappy and suffering too. It has affected all of you otherwise they would not be insulting you and attacking whatever you say. It's their problem, not yours. People who belittle others have serious problems themselves.

Also, do you find them continually looking for ways to belittle you and continually looking to attack for any little thing you say that they want to misconstrue in their own minds?

You can't help them but you can help yourself by placing yourself out of their presence when they start to do it.

Find ways to enjoy yourself without them when you need to. You are a very good and worthwhile person. I can read it in your posts.

[ January 21, 2006, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: ladybug ]

Well said, ladybug. Family members will often prey on the low self-esteem of someone with a mental health problem --- probably for a couple of reasons. They don't understand mental illness and feel threatened by that person. Or they are using the illness to try to control that person. If you try to defend yourself, they tell you you're crazy.

I'm not saying that your family means you any harm, Sue. But I did have a friend whose family told her she was crazy and threatened to have her "committed" every time she criticized their bad behavior. Very troubling and sad indeed.

When we're fighting a problem like this, the last thing we need is to be sobotaged by those who should be the most understanding.

How true. I've been down for one day and the over reaction to it is, well, almost comical. But like you say, if I try to defend myself (which for me I admit my favorite tactic is to calmly fight back with pure logic) they lose their tempers and call me crazy.

Vicki, I've joined a group called Stigmabusters. They are are part of NAMI. They are trying to bring a halt to the stigma that has surrounded those with mental illness. It's more or less a letter writing campaign but they are getting the neccessary attention and results, whether it's fighting the media, the networks, Congress etc...

Count me in suzieQ and let me know who to write to. You all have my support because I'm sick of it just as much as you are.

I'd like to learn more about that group, too.

suzieQ, how are you doing and what did you do today?

I wish I could make you smile and feel good about yourself.

Since I can't do that, do this for me. Go to a mirror and smile and say, "I like you, you're really a great person." If anyone sees you do it tell them, a Ladybug thinks that of me. That'll really get em' going!

The organization working towards ending stigma is

NAMI - National Alliance for the Mentally Ill

http:www.nami.org/ Once you are on their site look for Stigmabusters and sign up. They will notify you each time a violation comes to their attention and explain how to go about the letter writing campaign and who to mail the letters to. You will then receive updates on the results to date.

There is Stigma everywhere, even right on this forum. Just read on and see how we are refered to as LOONIES

[ February 26, 2006, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: suzieq ]

I wrote that website down. Thanks, suzieQ. I'm glad to hear you are writing everything down and will let your doctor know why you are leaving her. You are doing her a favor. I'm sure other patients have been taken aback by her unecessary, cruel comments.
Do your best "sleuthing" in finding the right doctor to suit your needs.
It's good to hear that your daughter has found a worthy cause to devote some time to.
When life gets a little stale it can cause many of us to have a bad outlook and lash out at others. It can come from our own unrest within ourselves. Lashing out at others is some folks way of easing their own tension. It doesn't make it right but that's the human condition. I try to back off from people like this because I can see they don't like themselves and are trying to draw me into their own bitter resentment. I've been there myself, so I know.
It's important to like yourself and to realize that each and every one of us has worth. We all have something we can give to each other but it isn't found in sarcasm, belittling and name calling to one another. It is found in gently listening to another person whether their beliefs are different from our own or not. It's found in accepting a person for who they are and not giving them ugly labels. I detest the word wacko. I think whoever made that word up should look in the mirror themselves.
Keep smiling and writing in your journal. Each day will bring you closer to the inner peace you crave. Think of your present situation as the mind's way of dealing with stress by taking its own detour around the rough spots. Your mind's peace will get back on the road when it feels the stones have been removed.

Ladybug, you hit on something important. We have to like ourselves. If we don't, how do we expect anyone else to have respect for us?

I just started receiving a new magazine called "BP"

http://www.bphope.com/index.php

It is full of positive reinforcement for those with Bipolar. Maybe it can help you, Suzieq? Click "Inside bp" and read the story about Patty Duke and how she's kicking stigma.

I already receive that magazine and active partake in the Pattyduke Blog for Bipolar Support that she set up and monitors.

[ February 24, 2006, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: suzieq ]

Learning to like myself was the best thing I ever did. And probably one of the hardest. I wish I could say I always do, but there are still days when I have to remind myself of my own worth. If I don't believe it, why should anyone else? Can you tell I had a bad patch last week?

I've already got the NAMI site bookmarked. I will go check out the place you mentioned.

Everyone makes mistakes and we have no right to judge each other. We also need to forgive ourselves for our mistakes otherwise we can never feel good about who we are. If we are able to forgive others for hurting us why do we beat ourselves up for our own mistakes?

Sexual abuse is such a hard thing to endure. My good friend is plagued by what happened to her as a toddler at the hands of a step grandfather. I have no doubt that some of her depression stems from this.

People who are true christians do not judge others. They donot spew false platitudes on people who have suffered.

When we admit we made a mistake then it's important to forgive ourselves and move on. It's true, we have got to like ourselves. It's true, if we don't like ourselves, others will not like us.
I'm very familiar with Patty Duke's story of her battles with depression.
In many cases of depression that I've encountered the depression was often caused by bad things people did to another person. The person with the depression didn't cause it.


Many so-called experts on mental illness agree that the brain is a very complex organ and it is almost impossible to understand the workings of it. They are not even certain how medications to treat depression work. If the "experts" aren't sure themselves, how can anyone else be expected to know with certainty? We are expected to trust our doctors to know and to treat us with the proper procedures. As we see, this isn't always the case and the person needing the right treatment suffers.

I went to nami.org and found information about the walks, but not the Stigmabusters. Help! I'd like to sign up.

I signed up so I hope I'm registered in the right place.

Going there to sign up as we speak. I'll let you know if I find it.

After spending my entire adult life in therapy, I learned a lot. Such as...I like more things about myself than just my hair. I like me(!) more days than not. How to avoid being beat up by someone else. Also, how to sleep at night instead of lying there beating myself up for all the things I did wrong. How to make a new plan, walk away while I still can, run, duck, and best of all to pick better friends. (Don't judge me by my relatives--please--but everyone judges me by the kind of people I call friends.)I learned to take care of myself and others in need of a helping hand. I learned that I am about a whole lot more than just sex. Sex should not hurt. I can say no. I can say no and mean it. I can say no with attitude. I can say no really loud. I can say no. I have the right to say no. The laws of this country I live in agree with me. I say no when I have to even when I want to say yes. I can put my needs first sometimes. I learned to say "I deserve(d) better than that". I learned I'm not alone. I also learned to smile with my whole self and not just my mouth. I learned to laugh--often. I learned to survive. I am a survivor. I am not always able to prevent myself from being a victim, but I do my best to not be a Victim. There is a difference. I learned to love. I learned to trust. I learned to live.

Suzieq, I am so sorry for all the pain you've endured in your life. I am glad you are doing so much better and I know you're going to be just fine.
I am curious about something you wrote. You said you opted to abort (no judgment here, I did the same at age 19) and the doctor said "look what you killed". Were you saying that the doctor who performed the abortion said this to you?

[ January 23, 2006, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: Bluebird ]

Labels? Oh, yeah. I usually cut those out of my clothes. No matter what kind of label you end up wearing--they can make you uncomfortable. I vote for cutting out the labels. That includes the labels we put on people.

kidogo, I haven't welcomed you yet, so WELCOME!!!
What part of NY are you in? I lived in the state for 45 years.

Hello Bluebird, thanks for the welcome. I live in the Mohawk Valley--little town called Utica. I've only been here a little over a year. A family on my street moved here from Colorado about 4 years ago.
My mom went to Colorado once. I didn't get to go.

Go to the NAMI main page, look under TAKE ACTION, FIGHT STIGMA. You'll find Stigmabusters there.

[ February 24, 2006, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: suzieq ]

Oh yes, I've heard of Utica. I was in Orange County, which is about halfway between Albany and NYC. CO is beautiful!! Do you know what part of CO your neighbors moved from?

Suzie, that is unbelievable! Did the man not see his part in the whole thing? I would never judge a woman who has been through it. God forgave me so who am I to condemn anyone? I do try to discourage women from making the same mistake I made, just so they won't have to go through what we did.

Why do you have the need to tell others you are bipolar? My grandson just married his girlfriend who I've known and had in my home many times and gone shopping with etc, for 3 years now. I just found out she was bipolar when we were picking up our prescriptions together. I never knew, never cared. I loved her before and do now, nothing changed because she is bipolar. To me its like someone above said, like being diabetec, or having psorasis...As far as your family being jerks at times, aren't a lot of families the same? Bipolar or not you have to help yourself be whole, you need to read everything you can find to help yourself and try to ignore the things around you that hurt you, we all have to do this from time to time. Maybe you could find a support group for women with problems in general. I'll pray for you.

[ February 26, 2006, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]

Some people are comfotable about admitting they have or have had mental health problems, just as some cancer survivors will discuss and share to help others, while some just want to forget it ever happened. It's a very personal thing, and I don't think anyone knows how they'll act until or unless they've been there.

Sue and others like her are working very hard to help themselves. Just because we're willing to talk about the problem we've had now and in the past does not mean we are not willing to help ourselves. It means we are.

Several of those who have posted here have been hurt by telling others of their mental illness.

To quote an esteemed boomer (Dianne), "If it hurts, don't do it twice."

smile

As I said previously, for all those who are interested in fighting Stigma, go to NAMI, Stigmabusters. It's time all of us who suffer from depression, mental illness, etc... stick together and fight IGNORANCE.

I have been posting on this forum for a while now and have only found compassion, support, unity and the highest level of dignity among BWS sisters. I find it hard to believe that there would be anyone that would stoop as low as to hurt those seeking comfort in a time of need, by writing to their trusted friends. What's even stranger is to think someone would have a problem with a member discussing mental health on the MENTAL HEALTH FORUM!!! That's why you can quote me - "It's feel's good, I'll keep coming back for more!"

And Chatty, you ask why I tell people I'm bipolar? It's because I'm not ashamed to be me. God loves me as I am. I don't have to hide the fact out of fear of judgement. With this voice I have many times reached out and helped others who are relieved to be comforted by someone who understands their pain because I've been in their shoes. If I can do for others what a select group of women on this forum have done for me, there is no question that my life will be greatly enriched.

Was Patty Duke ashamed to speak about her condition? Or Jane Pauly? Many have come out publicly and shared their life story to fight ignorance and help others who have the same illness. We no longer have to hide in a closet because of fear that society will attack us.

What's the big deal with being bipolar anyway? We're in good company. Take for example: Michelangelo, Beethoven, Lord Byron, Hans Christian Anderson, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Florence Nightingale, Leo Tolstoy, Charles Dickens, Mark Twain, Vincent Van Gogh, Winston Churchill, Virginia Woolf, Cole Porter, Francis Scott, F. Scott Fitzgerald, William Faulkner, Ernest Hemingway, Bing Cosby, Tennessee Williams, to name a few. No shame in being in their company.

[ February 26, 2006, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: suzieq ]

Friend of mine sent me this via email a while back. I saved it and thought it was too cute not to share with the group.

Dear Lord,
So far today, I am doing all right.
I have not gossiped, lost my temper, been greedy, grumpy, nasty, selfish, or self-indulgent. I have not whined, complained, cursed, or eaten any chocolate. I have not charged on my credit card.
But I will be getting out of bed in a minute, and I think I will really need your help then.

Good one kidogo and thanks for being here.

SuzieQ, I'm glad you do find this particular forum a good place to be. How are you today?

I've signed up on Stigmabusters and ready to do battle for all the wonderful people who suffer not only the pain of depression but the ignorance of insensitive people as well. I think it can be hard to recover and heal from depression when many around you seem to sabotage your efforts at helping yourself.

SuzieQ, I can see from what you are telling us that you've made a tremendous amount of progress towards your goal of feeling well again. I must admit that out of many people I know with depression you're putting a good deal of effort into healing yourself. You really do know what it takes to get better. I admire you for it. You are not simply putting your healing in the hands of others but taking an active part in making it happen for yourself. I think you will succeed and go on to helping others recover as well. No one does this better than one who has been there herself. This is true in any situation.

I was recently contacted via email by a cousin I haven't seen since I was nine years old. She too suffered from parental and spousal abuse and her sister is a librarian and ran across my book in the library and put two and two together and figured out it was their cousin (yours truly!).

As we've been emailing, I realize there was much more abuse and mental illness in my family. This is four cousins that have contacted me after reading my book and as we all share our horror stories, it's just so depressing.

I think my father's sisters were worse than the boys. Horrible and vile treatment of their children, drug abuse and they were/are Pentecostal fanatics. Maybe they looked for a cure through their religion?

There have been so many times that I've feared I'd end up in a state mental hospital, in a corner and drooling on myself because my father always told me I was mentally ill. Today, I think he was transfering his own disease onto me.

I grieve for those who suffer from something society either doesn't understand or doesn't want to understand because it makes them uncomfortable.

[ January 24, 2006, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Dianne ]

Suzieq, that's wonderful news about how you worked through your differences with your psychologist. I'm so glad she saw the error of her ways and is going to work with you in a positive way to help support your recovery.

Good for you for following your instincts and confronting her. Way to go. You rock!

If you share a friend's burden, both of you will walk a little straighter. You are my friends. We share many of the same burdens. Thank you for sharing.

Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself.

I wrote a poem about chocolate. I'll try and find it for you SuzieQ. I think you'll like it.

Kidogo...now if I could only say that prayer before getting into bed. It is really cute.
Also enjoyed, "Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself".

Suzieq...what wonderful news about your psychologist, it's so nice when your more than positive they are listening. Sounds like she really listened to you, and realigned herself in a more positive direction. I never thought about AA when I was in therapy...put it does sound like a positive reinforcement.
You are becoming stronger everyday...I see it within your posts. Me too! Isn't it great???

Dianne...I believe my dad also tried to transfer his disease. Now, I can see how it has affected my brother's life also.
I pray we are the last generation to be effected.

This is what I love to see, all these positive stories and reinforcement. We don't need any negativism here.

SuzieQ I'm really glad that you were honest with your doctor. She was probably ashamed of her treatment of you. But, she would never have known unless you were up front with her, so all the credit goes to you.

So often people do want to transfer their disease on to another person. Ever hear that old saying, misery loves company?

That's what a person must do, walk away with your head held high when the ignorant comments come spewing forth out of the mouths of idiots.

I have seen the discomfort of others when faced with something they know nothing about. Their ignorance is plainly seen. These are the people society needs to pity.

[ January 24, 2006, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: ladybug ]

Oh yes, and parents love to say, "you're just like me." Sometimes I cringe when I hear that because I am my own person. No one makes my decisions or speaks for me. I am strong and not a branch to be bent to the will of others. I want people to respect me even if they may not like me. I donot want their stupid "labels" and their put downs. Truthfully, I just ignore their dumb comments and to my friends here...you all should too. Demand that respect from others.

Dianne, I'm sorry to hear about your cousins. The good news is they are reaching out to you. That is the first step in healing. They couldn’t have a finer, most loving relative to turn to. Sure it may be depressing, but knowing you can help someone is one of the biggest highs you can get. God has put you here for a purpose.

And oh yes, I know all about parents passing down their problems. I went through years of it with a mother who was undiagnosed bp as well. I finally as an adult read the book "Making Peace With Your Parents". I came to realize that she was doing the best she could, as a result of her upbringing. I talked to people and learned what a rough time she had as a child, trying to live up to two highly successful parents; her father involved with state politics, her mother one of the first female pharmacists. She was sent off to private finishing schools and had a miserable relationship with her parents. I forgave her and we made peace. Thank God, because she died 6 years later.

That book was some of the best therapy I ever had. The author, a doctor, even wrote back to me which further inspirer me. I'd recommend it to anyone.

As for the fools who harass and belittle, who judge, rant and rave or try to control those around them; they have their own problems and lack of self esteem. Why else would they be so eager to try to tear everyone else's down. Let's forgive them and prayer for their recovery.

suzieQ hello and how are you today?

You've hit the nail on the head with your comments about fools. I do agree, I do agree.

STEPPING STONES

Come take my hand, the road is long.
We must travel by "stepping stones".
No, you're not alone; I'll go with you.
I know the road well; I've been there.

Don't fear the darkness. I'll be with you.
We must take one "step" at a time.
Remember we may have to stop awhile.
It is a long way to the other side and there
are many obstacles.

We have many "stones" to cross.
Some are bigger than others; shock,
denial, and anger to start.
Then comes guilt, despair and loneliness.
It's a hard road to travel but it must be done.
It's the only way to reach the other side.

Come; slip your hand in mine.
What? Oh yes, it's strong. I've held so
many hands like yours.
Yes, mine was one time small and weak
like yours.
Once, you see, I had to take someone's
hand in order to take the first
step.

Ooops! You've stumbled! Go ahead and cry.
Don't be ashamed. I understand.
Let's wait here a while and get our breath.
There's no need to hurry.
Say, it's nice to hear you laugh.
Yes, I agree, the memories you shared are good.

Look! We are halfway there now! I can
see the other side.
It looks so warm and sunny.
Oh! Have you noticed?
We're nearing the last "stone" and
you're standing alone.
Look! Your hands! You've let go of mine.
We've reached the other side.

But wait! Look back!
Someone is standing there!
They are alone and want to cross the
"stepping stones".
I better go they need my help.
What? Are you sure?
Why yes, I'll wait.

You know the way; you've been there.
Yes, I agree, it's your turn
to help someone else across the
"stepping stones".
May God Bless you and keep you
in His care always.

Author Known only by God

At least once in our lives, many of us will experience depression, whether it be severe or so slight that we may not even realize we have it.

With that in mind, it's time we all pay attention and help banish the stigma put on people who suffer from it.

Sue, I just love your poem. It made me realize how far I've come in the last few years.

Eagle, I've been feeling kind of down for the last couple of weeks. Not a full blown depression, as you said, but troubling. I wish things like this didn't happen, but they do. I think all the stress from my husband's illness last year has finally caught up with me, now that I have time to think about it. I also have been very impatient when people make a big deal about what I consider nothing. That's not always fair, because these things are important to them. I'm working on being more patient as we speak.

Hope you feel better soon.

Don't forget that our changing hormone levels which rise and fall also can worsen depression and even bring it on even if it wasn't there to begin with.

Together we can help each other and be one another's light. I learned this from our very dear Vi.

Remember there is no i in the word team. Go team!

Nice poem sizieq....I especially like that prayer by Kidigo...boy have I ever been there at times. Haven't we all?

I think these are wonderful and needed. Thanks.

Eagle,
Perhaps you are suffering from Seasonal Affective Disorder. I think it starts about now and maybe earlier up north. I've not been depressed, but I definitely have less energy the last few weeks.

I'm saying a prayer for light to come into your life and your heart.

smiel

Hello Everyone! I've been kinda busy the last couple of days, so I missed a lot of what was going on here. One of the things I was busy doing was looking for something I wrote about chocolate. I found it and before I chicken out I thought I'd post it.

CHOCOLATE UTOPIA

Women all know that they need chocolate. It's like a vitamin or a drug. It makes all women feel better about anything and everything. It's a cure-all for whatever makes us feel bad. It's a miracle. It's available. It's cheap. It comes in many different styles and flavors. It comes in single servings for a quick-fix or in bags to keep on hand for whatever life throws at us. We know the risk of addiction and the potential weight gain. But we also know we will need it sometimes and when a woman needs chocolate.....well you better hope she gets it and the sooner the better! Men don't automatically know this. We would all be much happier if they did. World-wide peace could be accomplished practically overnight with this information. Seriously. Think about it. Women love men. Women need chocolate. Men love women. Women are emotional. Men stress out when women get emotional. Wars get started by stressed-out men. Men need to keep chocolate in steady supply to give to the women. Chocolate calms women and makes them happy. Happy women are more loving and affectionate, which makes men want to make love not war. And so that's my theory of how chocolate saves lives.


It took all my courage to post this. I sure hope I didn't offend anyone.

Long live Chocoholics!
kidogo,I am not offended that's for sure. What a fantastic read! I loved it. I am sooo glad you posted it.

chick

Thank you, chickadee. You made my whole day!

Well done Kidogo.

smile

I think my husband has read this before...he is forever giving me chocolate.

Kidogo, I enjoyed this read...thanks.

Kidogo, what a great read. Thanks. I love chocolate and firmly believe that it should be a required treatment with a doctor's prescription for all women.

I'll never give up chocolate. That would be cruel and inhumane.

Vicki, you have also hit on an important aspect of dealing with depression: those hectic schedules that many people adhere to. If you are not getting enough rest and have a stressful event happen in your life it can affect you much more so than if your life is a bit less hectic. It's called burning the candle at both ends.

A night out for chocolate or a fudge sundae sounds perfect!

Would somebody pl-e-a-s-e pass the chocolate?

Sorry. Didn't mean to scare you like that. I think I must have stepped into the twilight zone this morning. What a day this has been. I've had nothing but problems with men all day long. I swear my husband and his best friend are the two most insecure men I have ever met in my life! And I had to deal with both of them at the same time. They got me so upset I had to go see a girlfriend and vent for a whole hour. Ooooooh! Sometimes I wonder why I put up with either one of them.

But my girlfriend down the street still loves me. My landlady thinks I'm her best tenant. The dog down the street is wondering why I didn't stop to pet her and tell her how beautiful she is. The girls on the corner were totally confused as to why on earth I was walking without my shopping cart and with no clear destination in mind.."what do you mean you're just out for a walk?" I'm so predictable. Everyone relies on me for so much and all it took was one of 'those days' to upset an innocent dog and 2 little girls.
Whew! Now that I've let off a little steam....and my husband went to bed feeling like he needs to be Real Nice to me now....I think I can actually get some work done.
Thanks for listening. I'm glad you are here...it helps me more than you know.
Oh! Glad you liked the Chocolate.

Yummmmmmmmmm!!!!

suzieQ and Vicki, hello! How did your day go?

Just wanted you both to know I'm thinking of you and sending lots of hugs, smiles and sunshine your way.

This is a question I keep coming back to: Why do some people consider mental illness fair game for all the lame, insensitive jokes?

Why do people offer their comfort to their friends going through treatments for other diseases but shun their friends with mental illness? My own observation would even suggest to me that people with mental illness are avoided by others because they are almost afraid to be around someone with a mental illness. I don't really understand the feeling because I want to reach out to my friends who have mental illness, to comfort them and tell them that eventually everything will be okay. How can someone with a mental illness heal on drugs alone? They need the love and comfort of understanding people as well.
Just as we comfort a friend with cancer, or MS and any other disease, let's also recognize that we need to do that with people who have mental illness as well.

Back many years ago when a good friend called me in tears saying she was going to end it all, I decided to learn a little bit about depression and mental illness. I went to the library and got several good books on the issue. I started looking at this illness in a new way. No, of course I didn't become an authority on it. (I'm also pleased to say that my friend still battles her demons but she won't let them kill her).

I did make many observations besides the ones I've already mentioned.

How many of us have seen and heard people scream, "you're sick, you need help!" Have you or did you notice that this standard put down is almost always meant in a negative way? After hearing people use this old, lame comment over and over to each other you have to wonder what the person who is saying it really means. It's certainly not helpful or supportive. Is it used to repel a person with mental illness?

Hello, Ladybug. Glad you brought that up. I have been 'in the system' for 20 years. I usually ended up giving therapy to my therapists. I also ended up living with one of them for a couple of years. It was a habit of his to date his clients. He had more problems than Carter has liver pills; which is why he chose that field of study in the first place. He was almost as good as my mother at making me feel bad about myself. I know about the slurs ("your a sickie!"). I believed the lie for way too many years. Thank God, I no longer do. I have told that I no longer qualify for disability. It seems I was normal all along. It was the people that called me 'sick' that was the problem. I had to be taught that I did deserve the space I take up on this planet, etc. I deserved better. I take care of myself and others...always did. I just quit giving in to the real crazies in my life. When I did that, I no longer needed the medicine that never stopped the pain anyway. I had to understand that allowing myself to live in abusive type situations is akin to abusing my own self.
No, I'm not perfect. I don't know any perfect people. But the good news is that I am not ugly, I am not bad, I am not sick. I just made the mistake of believing the lies.

Gosh, you are wonderful coming out and saying that! I've heard that term "sickie" too. You were being used and put down and when you finally realized it the abuse all around stopped.

I've come to my own conclusion that people who succumb to any mental illness are those who care deeply about others and give to others until their own needs are neglected. They allow others to sap their strength and spiritual energy. Then they get called names and are labeled as "crazy" and "sick." People who love themselves far too much never become depressed because they are selfish. I think everyone needs to love themselves don't get me wrong, but there are those who cut off a person in a minute if they just cross them the wrong way one time. These are the ones who will never succumb to depression or any other form of mental illness because they really don't care about the sufferings of others and willnot allow themselves to become involved with another person's problems. They take care of Numero Uno in other words.

A person is "ripe" for mental illness when they do not get enough sleep, eat poorly (on the run at fast food places) and are dealing with the emotional or health issues of those they love. How can a person stay healthy mentally if you're not taking care of the whole person? When we throw in hormonal changes because of menopause it's a recipe for mental illness. Having an operation is considered trauma to the body and can also trigger depression. Sometimes while we're running and worrying about someone else depression just creeps up on us.

Have you noticed that when you stop the others from whatever form of abuse they are heaping on you this is when the ugly labels start?

In part, recognising what causes your mental illness can be a step in the right direction to help cure it or at least keep it at bay.

Society likes to deal in absolutes and what they can see in regards to a health issue. You can see the effects of heart disease, diabetes, a stroke, cancer, skin diseases. We give comfort to those people because we can see their trauma with our eyes. When a person has a mental illness we seem to be less understanding and the terms "it's all in their heads" becomes a convenient catch-all phrase. Society dismisses this pain.
Most intelligent people will research an issue they don't inderstand but how much effort does society put forth to understand mental illness?
Mental illness strikes far more people than many other diseases combined, yet where is the funding for it? Why does society turn a blind eye and a cold heart to this illness and make crude jokes about it?

Mostly because they don't understand it. And when people don't understand something they make fun of it and attack it. There are those who do the research and try to learn more about it, but they're few and far between. We have to rely on ourselves to get the positive images out there among society that mental health isn't some crazy psych-ward boogeyman that's gonna get ya.

NIMH http://www.nimh.nih.gov/ needs support, because they are trying.

Eagleheart, that's what I'm talking about and you've discovered it for yourself.

Those people who are no longer in your life weren't your friends to begin with. True friends stick with you and let you lean on them when times are tough. They don't turn away because you have a lapse in judgement and say something you shouldn't have. If they love you and care about you they try to understand what made you say or do what you did. You have rid yourself of excess baggage.

True friends try to learn about depression. Depression doesnot make a person a contagious leper. It only does if you believe them.

Take care of the whole body, learn to be a little selfish. Every woman has worth and importance. Just check it out when you're not doing your "job" at home for a few days. Does chaos not reign?? LOL!!!

When idiotic programs on tv demean people with mental illness get everyone involved and do some letter writing to the net works. We don't like smut on tv and as far as I'm concerned shows that perpetuate mental illness as something to be made fun of is in it's own way, smut. Intelligent people should be outraged that tv producers see this as funny.

Mental illness is a frightening subject to us all. We fear the unpredictability of those with it and we fear losing our own mental abilities to it.

I think humor might be an excellent way to diffuse some of the tension around mental illness. Comedy has lessened tensions about race, age, wealth and many other sensitive social issues and it could easily increase public awareness of mental health issues while helping people see that the mentally ill are not as frightening as they may appear. It might also be good for those with mental illness to be able to laugh at themselves. I remember plenty of incidents of that when I worked in a psyche unit.

Ridicule can be hurtful, but there is nothing quite as healing as laughter, both at others and at oneself.

smile

Laughter is indeed healing but not went it fraudulently depicts people as "loonies."

I must admit I've been around lots of people with mental illness and was never afraid of any them.

It's pretty common knowledge that people in pyschiatric institutions are drugged far beyond what they need in most cases causing them to act in a more bizarre fashion than they would without the drugs.

In my own opinion, I feel if I laugh at these childish tv shows depicting the serious issue of mental illness as a joke then I am perpetuating the real suffering that people with this illness are going through. It goes against my nature of offering comfort and understanding to people with mental illness.

I also have another friend who worked in a psychiatric hospital and confirms that people there are drugged way too heavily causing them to act out when they normally wouldn't. People who were frightening and dangerous there were the exception, not the rule. That was her own experience. I think it's important that we not erroneously lump all mental illness sufferers with those you might be referring to.

[ January 30, 2006, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: ladybug ]

Understanding the source of our pain is the first step towards the cure.
In my particular case I had one parent who thought I could do no wrong (my father) and one who thought I could do no right (my mother). Unfortunately for me, my father died when I was six and he could no longer protect me from my mother. It was many years into therapy that I came to understand why I was her victim. She feels jealous of me because all the things that came so easily to me were the very things she always wanted and never achieved. It's sad when a parent turns their own self-hatred on their child. She is in complete denial and any attempt to get her involved in my treatment only brought on more abuse. I cannot change her, and no one can help her unless she is willing to face the problem. So, I am doing what I have to do to protect myself from her. My husband is aware of the problem and he is not afraid of her. He knows that she has a history of turning people against me and so he will not let that happen to us. When we first met he thought I might be exaggerating about how bad she was. It only took one day with her for him to see that I was telling the truth. He is protective of me and I like that. It's nice not having to go it alone. I also have many friends that care about me. It's easy for me to have friends because I don't go out of my way to treat people bad. I don't want to hurt anyone because I know what it feels like. Being so nice to people can make me a potential victim, so I have had to learn how not be one. I also learned self-defense because I cannot control every situation. There are a lot of people like me in this world. We suffer from what I call 'Nice Person Syndrome'. It is good that there are so many nice people in this world but bad that there are so many that only care about themselves. If we don't give up and give in to the evil then we will continue to survive. By finding others like us, we can have hope that we will do more than just survive. A twig is easily broken. Put two together and they are harder to break. When all you hear is what you did wrong and no one ever tells you what you do right then you will never know anything different.

I think that I said enough for now. I could write a book on abuse and what I've learned about it. Maybe I will...

Personally, I see a lot of "loonies." running around just about everywhere, including but not limited to, mental hospitals. Some of my best friends are actaully quite loonie and I'm sure they would proclaim the same about me.

I love loonies. They add fun to an otherwise mundane life.

Comedy almost always originates in pain, and I've seen a lot of people in a lot of pain. Life is full of pain. You might as well laugh about it as cry. Those who can lighten up and see the humor in whatever comes their way endure it with greater grace.

smile

[ January 30, 2006, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: smilinize ]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I'm only thinking about when I see a movie or tv program that "hits home." Others probably see it as funny, where I, having had that experience do not.

If a person with mental illness sees themselves as worthless or "crazy" then these shows might just be reinforcing their beliefs. It really hurts to see others laugh at a serious situation if you are in that type of situation yourself. I just cannot laugh at something that makes fun of a serious illness.

[ January 30, 2006, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: ladybug ]

Humor is essential in life... but who is delivering the humor, and to what audience makes the difference between, healing and hurting...
A patient, a resident, a client who makes fun of himself in whatever context, may be helping to heal himself and lighten a bad situation, but a staff member who makes fun of the same patient, resident, client for exactly the same thing,
has more than a bit of explaining to do......

I may laugh with you, but when i laugh at you.... there is a difference..... and obviously this goes beyond mental health issues, but extends into racial, gender, national.... all issues of life......

[ January 30, 2006, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: norma ]

To each his own.

Today I have bronchitis. I sent my husband to Walmart for Nyquil and called my older daughter who sympathized and felt sorry for me.
I was feeling much worse so I called my younger daughter, the comedian. She nonchalantly observed, "Well Mom, next thing you know you'll be wheeling around the nursing home sipping your Nyquil." We laughed and I hung up.
Either I felt better or maybe I just decided not to whine anymore.

You might as well laugh at what you cannot change.

smile

Personally I think we are all a bit round the bend. Some of us get caught and locked up while others of us never do and roam free. I am not trying to make light of mental illiness as my father was diagnosed as scho?(whatever) and I watched my sister become demented beyond belief. I guess what I am trying to say is what works for one person doesn't work for another. Laughter when done WITH a person can be healing. Laughter when done AT a person for any reason, is an abomination. It all boils down to treat others as you would want to be treated. Old and dull saying, but it works just the same...

I think that's all that is trying to be said here Chatty and your last sentence says it all.

Looking back on the history of the psychiatric profession (in the office, on the couch approach), one can see that even though we think we have come a long way with this illness treatments have actually digressed or been at a standstill. The treatments of yesteryear consisted of actual talk therapy and then followed with a presciption for meds, if needed. Today it's much easier and less time-consuming for doctors to simply write a prescription as a cure-all. Doctors are busy and operate on an assembly-line type of schedule. "Time is money."

With most other diseases there are prescriptions and operations as well as a myriad of other procedures and treatments. The human brain is a complex organ that still baffles medical science.

With mental illness your friends are required to sit and be a little more patient. Many people back off because they feel they don't have the time or their own patience to give to you. I've often heard this from people suffering with depression and bipolar illnesses. They lack friends. This makes a person feel even more alone and makes them question why this is so. It is our "busy" society that makes people impatient. Every time someone brushes you off it isn't because you repel them. It's the fast-paced society we live in that tells them they don't have the time to invest. That's sad but it's another hurdle for people suffering with mental illness to have to deal with. They become isolated. People all need someone to pour out their hearts to from time to time. It's what helps us cope, someone who can say, "I've been there, I know what you're going through."

Unfortunately, that's what much of society doesn't grasp in dealing with mental illness. People simply need someone to talk to.

having someone to talk to can make a whole lot of difference.

That's why I like this site. I have so many wonderful friends to talk to and who listen to what I have to say.

I value whatever you have to say and consider you a good friend.

I second the motion! You can always tell who your true friends are. They're the one's with the biggest shoulders and ears and kindest words and thoughts.

Kidogo, I'm so sorry to hear about the abuse you've gone through with your mother. There's a book (I don't know if it's still in print, because it's been over 20 years since I used it) called "Making Peace With Your Parents." It contains dozens of stories similar to yours. It's a self help book of exercises and advise to overcome the pain of abuse, etc... You can keep it to yourself to heal or as I did, take it a step further and find a healing relationship with your parent. It may seem impossible and maybe it is. But if you can heal your own heart it will help.

Take care everyone!

“In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

Martin Luther King, Jr

Sue

[ February 24, 2006, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: suzieq ]

Many times the unresolved grief or abuse a person suffered years ago can surface later in a form of mental illness.

Thank God many of us now realize this and try to deal with it instead of ignoring it which causes further harm.

I think it's always good to talk out your pain and cry if you need to.

[ February 02, 2006, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: ladybug ]

I agree, and I think we must realize that there are women that come to this forum, sometimes prior to seeking professional help. They see us as trusted friends who have been there; felt their pain.

We women at BWS have a responsibility to listen with open hearts, without judgment;

to offer advise when and only if we are truly in position of actually having had some sort of experience dealing with the mental illness, addiction or grief discussed first hand;

To direct the person to professional care if they are depressed, unstable, or suffering any other psychological ailment that we cannot help them with;

And to never, ever suggest in any way, shape or form that it's a good idea for them to stop taking medications without consulting their doctor. Unless you have a MD after your name this is criminal.

Many people read these forums outside our BWS membership. We must be responsible for the effects we may have on innocent lives. Words are powerful. They can change a person's life for the best or for the worst and can even lead to death.

[ February 26, 2006, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: suzieq ]

Very good advice you gave there suzieQ.

Have you considered being a grief counselor? I think you have great insight, a good heart and the willingness to reach out to help others.