I split up with my ex about 2-1/2 years ago after 5 very difficult years together. He is still dating the person (I call her Thing) that he was cheating on me with, which I am still very angry about. I hate this woman beyond belief! Thing took up with my ex and was sleeping with him - she told me after I found out and called her - after two weeks, and she knew about me and admitted that she knew. I had no contact with the ex for a year after that, but then I was weak and missed him so I called and we talked several times and then saw each other and we have been seeing each other about once a month since then (I moved out of town so it isn't really possible to see each other too often). We have talked about getting back together and I know that we still love each other but our relationship was difficult and I'm not sure if I want him back. The thing is - and this is the point I need help with - I don't necessarily want him back, I just don't want HER to end up with him! Am I crazy? She was SO smug when I called her, crying my eyes out, asking her if she had known about me when she started seeing him. Besides admitting that she had (and obviously didn't care about MY feelings!) she said "I can't promise you that I won't see him again" in this very smug, very arrogant way. I have hated her ever since! I know it is not right to hate someone so much, and I realize that the person I should be angriest at is HIM, but I forgave him and still hate her. All I want is to make sure that she finds out that yes, she too can be cheated on, and that what goes around comes around. I am moving back into town in April of next year and I think that just knowing that I am back with put her into a tailspin (mutual friends say she is very insecure about me), but it's hard to wait until then. I want her to know that he has been seeing me and I figure he will slip up eventually and she will find out, but I know how he lies his way out of trouble (he's done it to me), so I want to make sure there is no doubt about it.

I know that everyone will say that I should go on with my life and be happy, so I want to reassure everyone that I am basically pretty happy by myself and my object is not to get the ex back. I know that I should get over my anger, but you have no idea how arrogant this woman is! My ex's son, and my stepson, died recently and she actually came up to me at the hospital and WANTED TO HUG ME! Yes, hug me! I couldn't believe it either! Any decent self-respecting person would have kept discreetly to the other side of the room and let me have my visit in peace, but she insisted on invading my space and trying to touch me like she is my friend! It made an already terrible situation that much more painful, and I suspect that is exactly what she was TRYING to do! I hate her, the hag!

My ex is coming down today to see me and I'm just thinking about it, I guess, and needed to vent. Any advice would be appreciated.

Oh Lordy Beth1119, do I ever know what you mean. The saying goes: I don't want him but I don't want anyone else to want him either. I should say here to move on and be happy but you know what I am not going to...I hate "Hag-Things," like this woman, smug and nasty and just plain evil! Tell you what I would do and know I'll never hear the end of this. I would not move back to the town they live in, stay in your own safty zone. Make him come to you, this is very important!!! I would take this jerk/cheater/liar back just long enough to get him away from her and give her a taste of her own medicine. But never forget dear heart 'HE' is the guiltiest party, she didn't kidnap or rape him I'm sure, got that part? Once you have him where you want him and you feel vindicated and he feels secure, kick his sorry butt to the curb, let him be inconvenienced and alone....I know this is not the Christian way and I will hear about this post for sure BUT once in a while we women just have to get even. Sometimes swallowing ones pride does nothing but give indigestion....good luck!

[ October 13, 2005, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]

For the first time, I'm going to disagree with Chatty. Now is not the time to play games because you could very well end up being hurt all over again.

This happens so often when a wife catches her husband in an affair, during or after the marriage. She suddenly forgets why she wanted to be rid of him in the first place. And, what is happening to you right now is the complete opposite of love...it's your ego. It will get you every time. If you operate from a position of ego you will never win. It goes against everything good.

Sure she was smug and that's probably because she's scared and who knows what your husband told her about you to make her that way. He might be pitting the two of you against each other with him as the prize.

And, is he a prize? Is taking someone back just to get even really a prize? I honestly believe this is why Nicole Brown Simpson got murdered. She decided, for whatever reason, to try and make it work with OJ again and then changed her mind. You don't do this with some men.

My ex cheated on me. I know how it feels and one day, after he'd spent a week end with this woman, she actually sent me flowers to thank me. Don't think it didn't light my fire! But, I left my husband and told him he could have her. Today, she's jobless, doesn't own a car and lives in a dumpy apartment with her mother. God and The Universe took care of her better than I could have with actions or words.

You are leaning toward the wrong reasons. This is going to keep you tied to a man you don't even want to be with. I pray you will reconsider.

Dianne I understand why you would disagree because your answer is correct and I have never given this type of advice before. I myself have always just walked away and told myself I was the better person for it but it left a very bad taste in my mouth. It went away with time but took its toll on me. I don't think that Beth is looking for whats right here but for permission. She's needing closure, help to soothe her ego and her broken heart. No matter what council we or others give she will do what she will do! As far as O.J. and Nicole, he was an abuser throughout that relationship and before it as well with other women and she was a tease and flirted big time. She instigated some of her own problems. That in no way made abuse and murder right however, God forbid. You're words are sound and the theory correct but sometimes a woman just has to do what feels good for her self...I'd say that the Cheater and the Thing deserve each other. I can't understand why Beth would even give him the time of day...Why not use the energy to make a new life without this jerk. But who knows??

[ October 13, 2005, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]

Beth, this is a very dangerous situation. If you are happy with yourself why play games.You say you don't want him, well if he wants you she won't have him long either- you won- leave it be walk away - be safe-there are too many violent people and too many diseases to take a chance playing games with a liar and a cheat
Listen to Dianne- please

Gee, Gals, I would really like to jump in here,

From my viewpoint and my experience, people cheat for many reasons .... many really deep reasons and many just because they are immature and are unable to postpone any gratification.

But here's my stand: If someone is cheating on you, they are not ready for you or the relationship the two of you are in. If they are not ready for you, the two of you are not , well let's say on the same page. If you are not on the same page, you are reading different pages and are unable, I emphasize - unable- to communicate with each other in a productive way. If you cannot communicate with each other in a way which supports the other, then there really is no relationship; merely habit or sexual desire or because he/she seems "charming", or some other agenda - maybe the children or that one feels abandoned or - the list goes on. I have an "ex" of 29 years. The mistake I made (and it always takes two to tango) was that I chose someone who seemed attractive in many ways, but was not reading the same page I was - and still isn't. So the error was never the divorce or separation, but the choice to begin with. And as far as the "other woman/man" goes, they are not the issue at all. It does not matter what comes out of their mouths or what behavior they exibit they are only the product of the problem and so between the two of you should have no meaning whatsoever. Ignore them completely (unless they marry and there are children involved which is another treatise on my part). I guess I am trying to say that even tho' it may "feel" like this man was yours, he never was and the other woman is a nonsubject no matter how she behaves. (But understand that she is certainly a subject in her own right and will have to understand her own isssues) Not as far as you are concerned, however.

I often am the mom who is selected to hear my son's friend's love issues (do I have a sign on my forehead?)And in general, my response is - Do not spend one more moment on this earth considering this problem - if you are on the same page, you will know it without any doubt. If you are not reading the same page, wait until you find someone who is . Life is so precious with wonderful things to be done in it and if you are not dead then get on with it and don't let yourself be miserable for one single minute. Make up your mind what YOU are going to do and the rest will follow. Being miserable with hate or revenge or anything is just not worth your sweet time.

And I agree with Dianne in that whatever a person sows, she/he will eventually reap - so just allow things to happen naturally and save yourself the agony of having to DO something about it. Just go on being your happy self, ignoring and standing above the chaos, determined to make yourself feel valuable and as a contributing human to this world. And as I said, the rest will follow. And also as Dianne says, If it doesn't feel good, don't do it twice - I would go so far as to say don't do once either. Or if it doesn't feel good, quit it. You have the right and the command to love and uphold yourself and yours - you are the issue in your life.

Much empathy and understanding I've been there
Searcher

My opinion: Beth why are you giving this cheating, liar Ex such power? He's probably gloating over the fact that you two women are fighting over him.

Even if you get him back could you ever trust him?

Beth don't see him, don't call him, don't call her, don't move back to the same town. If you truly do not love this man and don't really want him back then why are you fighting so hard to get him back?

You have nothing to gain by going back to him. If you are a happier woman without him then run...don't walk.

After going through all of this for 2 1/2 years do you honestly think your relationship would be stronger or better because of it?

I don't think so!

All you would have would be more amunition in the war you call a relationship.

Thank you Chatty and Dianne for your replies.

You are right, both of you, in saying that he isn't worth taking back. He cheated on his first wife with the first girlfriend, then cheated on the first girlfriend with the second and then the third girlfriend (for awhile he was running back and forth between the four of them). I came along after the third girlfriend and I thought he might have it out of his system, but I've come to realize from hard experience that this is a man who will always cheat no matter who he's with.

I know that I should bow out; he will eventually find someone else to cheat on her with and I won't have to do anything. I am just wrestling with this urge to turn the tables on her because she just plain old DESERVES it so much! She thinks she is the best thing that ever happened to him and that he would NEVER have any reason to do that to her. I believe she thinks that he cheated on me with her because she is BETTER than me or something, and that's what makes me mad. Thing is older than me and should have better sense than that, everyone knows that if you are the other woman (or man for that matter) in a relationship, then eventually you will probably reap what you sow. Evidently, the woman's ego is so huge that she believes this bit of wisdom doesn't apply to HER.

I know that it is wrong to hate her so much. I've prayed about it since she came into the picture and the hatred continues, so I'm beginning to feel that maybe God understands in this circumstance. The very idea of her makes me cringe. You should hear her voice on the telephone! She is nearing 50 years old and she tries desperately to sound like a 16 year old cheerleader. I've seen a few pictures of her at the house when I've been there and it is obvious she thinks she is one hot chick. Gag. By the way, I've thrown away all but one of the pictures when I've found them and I scratched the eyes out of the only one I left there. That was something I recently did, so I'm not sure what she's going to think when she sees that. Another time, not long after I started seeing him again, I found a set of engraved mugs and I took hers and scratched her name off of it and sat it right back down where it was. The ex, by the way, is aware of this and is not upset. She got mad and broke up with him for about a week that time, but she took him back and seems to be completely blind since then.

He was here today and he still says that he loves me and that that will never change. He said that he is with her because they get along and we didn't, and that he does not love her but likes her. He says I am the love of his life.

I know I'm crazy to continue dealing with either one of them, but it's not like I'm putting my own happiness on hold or anything; I had a serious boyfriend until a year ago and I still date other people but just haven't met anyone I care enough about to have a relationship with. As soon as I do, he will be trying to beg me back again. He did it last year when I was still with my ex-boyfriend, and I know he will do it again because he actually has the nerve to say that he is jealous of other men with me.

Crazy situation, huh?

I rest my case....

Hi Beth, if you really want to get even, just let her have him. They deserve each other and people who cheat and then marry are rarely happy.

I was in the very same situation as you and continued having a relationship with my husband even though he was cheating. Yes, I talked to the woman, I talked to the woman's husband, but it didn't make anything better, it only made me not like myself. After our divorce was final, I cut the strings and he dated that woman for 10 years, then married her. According to my ex-SIL, here is the result - He never stopped loving me (that's debatable, I think) - She was so jealous of me she couldn't stand it - His family can't stand her - One SIL never misses a chance to confront her on anything - He never said anything bad about me, defended me to anyone who did and if anyone asked about our divorce he took full responsibility. Several times he tried to find out if I was interested, but I wasn't, I had no respect, no trust, was not even attracted and in fact was repulsed by him.

You deserve better than this 2 timing loser - lose him, that's what I say.

And you can bet that he's feeling pretty proud of himself, keeping 2 women on the string. Puulleeeese, this is making me ill.

Daisygirl

I just read the other replies and all of you are right. I know in my heart what the right thing to do is, but as I said, I'm struggling with it. I loved this man very, very much. Our relationship was always crazy and I guess we never have been on the same page, but the highs always seemed to outweigh the lows. I still love him, and I just LIKE him - he's sweet as he can be in as many ways as he is a complete jerk.

I am glad to have you guys to lend some input on this subject. My friends all like him and think my little war with Thing is funny.

I don't see how you can like someone who has jerked you around so much...

Daisygirl, I have no idea. I guess all I can say is that he knows me and understands me better than anyone I know, and although I hate the things he does I understand him, too. Everything about our relationship wasn't bad, but it was difficult. I don't love him the way I used to, because it's hard to love someone you can never trust, but there is definately still love there. I guess I can only hope that eventually I will meet someone who will replace those feelings, someone who has never hurt me. I am so disillusioned with dating that I guess it's easier to stay halfway into this relationship because I already know his faults, I already know everything bad about him, so there are no surprises, no disappointments. Does that make sense at all?

"he knows me and understands me better than anyone I know"

and he's using that knowledge to turn you into dogmeat.

Quit disillusioning yourself. He doesn't like you. He doesn't love you. He certainly doesn't respect you. He's jerking around you and Thing for his own misogynist enjoyment.

I don't sense any real love here, of anyone mentioned, for anyone mentioned -- just desperation and self-delusion.

He's a 4-time loser -- and that's just counting his recent escapades. If you go back to him, in any way under any circumstances, you're as big a loser as he is.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but this 3-way emotional S & M is way beyond my comprehension. Too many games.

And way too much BS.

[ October 14, 2005, 03:46 AM: Message edited by: meredithbead ]

How will you ever meet Mr. Right when you're all tangled up with Mr. Wrong? It won't happen. Mr. Right wouldn't want to be with a woman who has so little self respect and involved with another man.

You've crossed a line from what you think is love into obsession. Battered women do this and it's why they often stay. You are trying to prove yourself to this man and Thing. You are trying to be the better woman, the winner. And honey, a wife NEVER competes with another woman. You are either number one in his life or you aren't.

This isn't about whether he loves you or her, it's about you not loving yourself enough to have some respect for your life, soul and spirit. This type of lifestyle will leave you nothing but an empty shell.

Beth1119,

All these women are trying to protect you from harm. How is it that you are not able to protect yourself? I suspect there might be something more going on here than this man in particular. Something in your past relationships or with your family growing up ? Maybe you are accustomed to his kind of behavior? Seems familiar to you? Look a little deeper for reasons why you have a need stay attached to someone who is hurting you.

Remember - if I slap you in the face and say "I love you", do you believe me?

Searcher

After reading everyone's comments, and your response to them, I can only draw one conclusion and that is that you enjoy this triangle. You enjoy the ruckus... you enjoy the play. Because if you don't hold on to the hate, the battles, the fights, then what do you have? You would have to really BE the person you were meant to BE... and that scares you. Being alone and starting over. I don't think you like yourself at all. How could you?

Honey, you deserve the very best life has to offer, but only if YOU believe you do. Obivously, you only believe you are worth HIM. That is so sad. And this hate thing? No one, I repeat, no one can get inside your head and make you feel hate. That comes from you and your decision to hate. You can change that. Its your head, your feelings, your choice.

I think you are comfortable with all of the bad choices going on here. Its better than nothing you are thinking. They are like your friend...

I hope you learn to love yourself again, dear woman. You soooo deserve to do so.

JJ

Beth:

I agree with all the ladies here, you need to distance yourself from these ambivalent types. Spend time with yourself, discover your wants and needs, then make well thought out decisions.

This triangle is harmful to your body and soul. I know, I was involved in a triangle with my ex-husband and one of his ex-wives. Its not worth it to change my identity to make him love me, b/c I stopped loving myself b/c I was planning how to win him over her, changing my looks, perceptions, career, etc. We still divorced and she has now been married 5x. I wasted so much time and dignity.

Drama can become addictive. Better yourself, overcome and you will be the winner.

Also, I agree with Daisygirl, "I don't see how you can like someone who has jerked you around so much...".

Could you be friends w/ Osama?

To Everyone: Thank you! I know you are all right in what you are saying and I think I hang on to this for some reason that I need to figure out and address, and this should be a priority for me, ahead of getting back at Thing or anything else.

Our relationship wasn't difficult, it was sick. My ex was very controlling; he controlled me financially by not allowing me to ever have any money. I worked most of the time we were together, but he made sure I never had any money. I didn't make that much money and he wouldn't hear of me going back to school to make more money. After I left him another time (before Thing - I actually left him several times), he called and wanted to get back together and begged me not to go to school. He said that I could come back and not work at all, just stay at home, but I refused to quit school. I went back, but he resented my having to study, plus work (I wouldn't quit my job either), so I think one reason why he took up with her was to get back at me for this. I know him well enough to realize that he would want to punish me for attempting to get out of his control, and what better way to show me that I wasn't giving him enough attention than to cheat on me with another another woman, you know?

He also was emotionally abusive, and I think that's one of the reasons I can't seem to get away from this. My life was a constant struggle, if things were ever "normal" with us, without drama, he would do something and we would fight and then he would tell me he didn't love me anymore so I would leave, then he would show up crying and begging me back. I think I got addicted to the drama, too. After I went back, things would be wonderful for 2 or 3 weeks, then the cycle would start again. It was crazy.

He is very charming, and it's hard not to like him. When his son died, even my mother caved in and called him several times and attended the funeral and really did a lot more than you would expect because she knows more than anyone how much damage this man did to me.

I am going to try to let go of this. I know that I have to. I really appreciate the good, honest advice everyone has given me. I think I forget sometimes how nuts the whole situation is and maybe I'm just afraid to face a future without him because he has become so ingrained into my life. I have changed my entire life; I worked full time while I went to school and now I have a job where I am dependent on NO MAN. I am proud of myself and it's as much a mystery to me as to anyone else how I could ever want to go back to being a dependent, abused doormat when I know I don't need ANYONE anymore, unless they actually have something to ADD to my life.

Thank you all for the reality check.

One question, though: How do I get closure? It's kind of obvious, I'm sure, that it's not easy for me just to walk away.

Way to go Beth!

Now you're talking !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now if you can stay with a job that keeps you independent, you can begin to rebuild your life the way YOU would like to have it - maybe even return to school to better your future even more. Just think of all the possibilities when you feel strong. No one is able to feel courageous and creative, or to concentrate on anything while someone else is allowed to abuse you. So. You must not allow it.

But do take a look inside yourself to find WHY you would allow abuse - so that you will never allow it again. It will take you some time, you won't probably hit this all right the first time, but there are women on this site who will help you (and even one who works with battered women - and you are one of them even if he didn't physically hit you).But the very first key to this is to get him OUT completely out of your blooming life. And I mean just that . you will blossom to your own surprise as you feel better and better.

WEll here's to 'ya and we will all be anxious to hear how you are coming.

Searcher

Beth,
you get closure by closing the door and do not ever open again to anyone who is not reading the same page you are.

Never mind closure - I personally think it's a much overused word and it has no place here.You will feel the closure anyway when you see that you are feeling so much better without him. If he calls you, or comes to your door (do not let him in)or writes you, I would say"I am finished with this - do not attempt to contact me in any way" period, no discussion, no whining, no anything. I promise you will feel so much better by really meaning those words.

Searcher

Also,
If you will go to DrPhil.com (not sure about the letter cases) right now, or soon, there is an interview with a woman in a somewhat similar relationship. There is also some good advice there for now and in the future as you deal with these issues.

The decision has really came down to you. Choosing to move in the same direction, means not only you will be effected...your children and possibly even their children will face abuse.
Someone has to stand up and say it stops here.
You are worth so much more.


Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.
Romans 12:19

Brenda

Beth, After you close the door, you will have a period when you are mourning the loss. But each day that passes, you will be stronger, feel better and happier. If you go back for even a little while, you will have to start all over in your recovery. After you've been on your own for awhile, you'll look back and thank God you are not there any longer.

Ask for help from your friends and family. When I was getting over a relationship, I asked a friend if she would just meet me for lunch 1 day a week for a while. Just knowing I would get to see my friend and that I was cared for, helped me to heal. And of course you can always turn to the boomer women.

God be with you!

Daisygirl

Another point:

An exterminator told me that for every cockroach you see around your house, there are 100 more that you don't see.

You're aware of 3 ex's + Thing. That's 4 that you know of. My guess is that, like the cockroaches, there are a lot more hiding in his past and probably present as well.

Your friends all like him? After what he's done to you? Um, um... reread the paragraph about cockroaches...

My advice? Get tested for AIDS and STD's. That should give you closure. If by some grace of the universe you're disease-free, count your lucky stars because you just beat some incredible odds. If he gave you anything, be grateful for the lesson in cockroaches.

Please continue your job and schooling. Under no circumstances take him back, even for a little while. If he threatens you -- as I suspect he will -- get a restraining order.

And for goodness sake talking to him, stop seeing him, dating him and more than likely, having sex with him. You were planning a move anyhow so move, change your phone number and tell your so called friends NOT to give him your information at any cost. There thats how you get closure....

This sounds like another case of a woman addicted to her own endorphins. Somewhere else I posted about this. Endorphins are chemcicals produced by your our bodies and they produce a "high" even greater than morphine or heroin. And they are as addictive.
If your endorphins are suppressed for a period of time by abuse or infidelity, when the abuse or infidelity stops and the man returns, there is a huge rush of endorphins. You feel elated and it feels much like love. It's the physiological reason behind the emotional excuese for women to stay in abusive and unfaithful relationships when they know full well the abuse and infidelity will recur. They unconsciously endure the pain because they unconsciously know the high is coming.
They are addicted.
The only way to stop an addiction it to either replace it with another addiction or stop cold turkey. With abusive men seems to me the only way is cold turkey.

Walk away and STAY away. Never look back.
smile

Smilinize,

Wow there's one situation where I've not heard that endorphins played such a large role. But I have to say that sounds quite plausible. I would be reluctant to say that the high from edorphins would be greater than that of morphine or heroin - but I surely agree that they are powerful neurotransmitters. They certainly play a major role in "thrill seekers" or in athletes and in other addictive behaviors, so why not? Veeeery i n t e r esting ! Very interesting indeed and I would enjoy knowing how you learned of this connection? In fact , the more I think about it, the more sense it makes. 'course I've been out of that loop for so long, maybe it's common knowledge by now. In any case, will you inform me?

In fact, as I continue to think about this, it could very well be linked to many many behaviors. For instance, many people who grow up in chaotic homes simply find it nearly impossible to live in a calm environment. By chaotic I don't necessarily mean abuse or anything like it = but just not much order. And it could be a new explanation of "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" -get my meaning? Well, we already know that we not only inherit blue eyes and body type, but behaviors as well, so it's not a stretch to think that endorphins could be a really big part in the behavior component. Cool.

You will let me know, won't you? 'cause I'm pretty excited now!!
Thanx, Searcher

Searcher, this post confuses me. Is it in the wrong forum? I don't see anything form Smilinize in here.

Beth, we know you can't make changes overnight. I hope you don't find the advice too harsh, but I think you've come across some women who may have been burned and they don'twant to see the very same hurtful thing happen to you.

Dots, it's on the previous page.

d.

Beth,
We ALL have choice, and out of our choice will come caos, peace, understanding, or whatever! What do you want for your life? Now is time for YOUR CHOICE!

You people are great!

The whole endorphin thing makes a LOT of sense! I've always wondered why it felt so good to see him, after he's done God knows what to me - and he has done a LOT.

I know I was abused in that relationship. There is so much that I haven't even talked about. There were times when I absolutely could not stop crying. I couldn't make sense of why he could say he loves me so much one day and behave as if he hated me the next. It was abuse. It was control.

I have not talked to him in two days. I am not planning to talk to him and when I do - eventually I'll probably have to - I will tell him that I am done, that I have had enough. I really don't have to worry about Thing. She will get hers soon enough.

I am going to try to move on. When I feel weak, I know I can come here for a refresher course on why I don't need to give in to my weakness.

And I know there is a reason for me continuing to allow this. I grew up with an alcoholic father who was often not around. When he was around, he was very loving and a good dad, but I could never count on him 100% because I never knew when he would take off. I knew chaos growing up and I realize that is why I have stayed in this very chaotic situation.

Again, thank you all so much for your honesty and support.

beth1119,

BINGO!!!!!Good for you! Kudo s! GREAT job! YOU get a star! You get 3 stars! You get a promotion! You get a raise! You've one the lottery! You get to be written in the Great Book of "I Finally Get It"! Well Done!

Just astonishing as a matter of fact. I was really worried that we wouldn't hear from you again - some of us girls came down pretty hard on you. But sometimes that's what it takes?

Refresher courses on this site, I am sure are absolutely free and come with a very long warrantee. Not one of us wants you to shed one more tear.

I, for one, was caring about you before, but now I ADORE you! Talk to me or any of us any time you wish in private or on the forums. And remember, all of us have made mistakes. WEll, I only made one when I misspelled a word, but the rest of these gals make it a habit.

Just make Thing disappear. And HIM too. Good idea to have someone else with you when you tell him "I QUIT". Moral support, you know. (And so that he can't get to you in a moment of weakness - to help you stay true to YOU)

I think I should go celebrate - buy myself some flowers - whoopeee!!!!

Searcher

Yeee Hawww Beth! You go girl!

Beth, I think many of us responded so strongly to your situation because either we or someone close to us has been in your shoes.

I'm not a fortune teller but I can foresee a better future for you! You've taken the first step to a new life! Congratulations!

Daisygirl

I married my first husband when I was 20. He was the love of my life. By the end of the first year of marriage I knew something didn't feel right, but I didn't know what. I've always had very low self esteem, have felt unworthy of anything at all and so, though I was not happy much of the time, and cried a lot and developed headaches - really severe migraines that often had me in the ER, I kept on, thinking 'it' was all my fault (though I didn't know what 'it' was. He told me I would never find anyone else who would be as good for me as he was - this is a story that lasted 34 years, so there is a lot to tell. Finally, after over 25 years of marriage mu depression was so severe I wanted to die and I had a plan. I will never know why I went to a therapist - my husband wouldn't let me do anything - he didn't trust anyone, didn't approve of anything - and if I went against his wishes he would give me the silent treatment, sometimes for 2 or 3 weeks. The therapist told me he was mentally and emotionally abusive; that none of my unhappiness was my fault except that I chose to stay. I went to a second therapist, then a third. All of my energy went into my children, who were also dealing with this; I would make excuses for him, do things for them behind his back.....finally one day when the kids were both out of the house (one married, one in an apartment and holding a good job) I told my husband I could not deal with him another day, that I wanted a divorce.

It was a nightmare. He finally moved out; but he, who was also the worst kind of miser, said he couldn't manage without me. He stopped working (he was a type A workaholic up to that point) - he wouldn't eat, wouldn't leave his apartment. I felt so bad that I'd take him food, take him to
the store, cook for him....getting him to see his lawyer, sign the papers - took many months. He went off the deep end and I blamed myself for everything and still do to some extent. All of my friends, my family - everyone tells me they don't know why I stayed so long - they could all see what he was doing to me....

Anyway, when the divorce was nearing completion and I'd been living alone for quite a while I received an e-mail from a man I'd graduated high school with; we had not been in touch for 35 years. He lived in a different state - we wrote back and forth for a few months and when the divorce was finally over he flew to see me. A few months later we married. But all this time I was still trying to take care of my ex, urging him to eat, assuring him he had plenty of money, cooking for him - even after I was married again.

Two years ago today he committed suicide. I was and still am devastated.

Beth, the only reason I am relating this painful experience is to show you how much worse things could be. Get out now and stay out. Let your ex find his own way; forget his girlfriend - I wish mine had had a girlfriend - it would have been so much better. In his own way he is controlling you - don't let him control your emotions and your mental health. When my ex no longer had me or our children to control he was lost - he couldn't even handle himself.

I feel like I may never recover from this even though I have a much better life, the support of everyone around me and a loving husband. I will always feel responsible. I'm sure your ex isn't as mentally ill as mine was, and he will be fine. But take care of yourself. You are important.

This is probably hard to follow; it is a very emotional and wrenching subject for me, but it needs to be told. I hope I've made a point....learn to put yourself and your happiness first right now, before it's too late. You are Number 1 and don't ever forget that.

Dreamer

Well said Dreamer,

And it is not nor ever was your fault. Can you cause someone else to have cancer? Your first husband was ill - so ill that he could not save himself. That is a crying shame, but has nothing to do with you. I really respect you for telling your story, and I know that Beth will find it comforting to know that you KNOW.

Searcher

The reason it feels so good when you see him is because he is familar territory. You have a history with him. Also, since he is a lot like your father in ways, you are trying to rewrite history but with someone different than your dad. Problem is: you have chosen the same personality so you will never win.

When the military is in battle, they stay in the foxhole and MAINTAIN RADIO SILENCE. To talk would give their plans and location away. They don't let the enemy see them or they will be shot. In the same ways, you don't talk to the enemy, don't let him know how you're thinking or feeling, you stay away so he can't use his ammunition on you. You maintain radio silence...no talking...corresponding...nothing.

As you get on with your life, you will gain more strength and power. This is how you get closure. By learning that life has more to offer than the way you've been experiencing it.

If you want, PM me and I'll send you a copy of my book that deals with this.

Wow. Life is a bitch, and then you die.

Has anyone asked what it is they were SUPPOSE to learn by creating this type of experience? The only way to get free of that emotional pain is to understand the lesson it taught.

Been there, done that.

The lesson is never about destroying you. It is about FINDING you, ACCEPTING you, and KNOWING your worth.

Let everyone else alone. They need to learn their own lesson but it is not your responsiblity to give them one. Revenge depletes your ability to heal and it prevents you from learning anything. You will just create this situation again if you do not learn anything.

Warmest thoughts and highest regards to you.

Beth, I'm sorry your ex is such a jerk.

Your story reminded me of my mother. My parents were married for 26 years. They split up when I was 18. I don't know all the details of their break up, but it wasn't long after my dad left that he was with someone else. I don't know if he was cheating on my mom. She says he was, they say they weren't. I don't know--it doesn't matter to me.

That was 23 years ago. My dad married the woman he was with shortly after the divorce. My mom hates this woman to this day. I can't talk about my dad and his wife in front of my mother without hearing some rude comment. It is something I just don't talk about, even to the point of not even saying if I am visiting him for Christmas. She resents everything about him, and every interaction I or my kids or my husband have with him.

My mother is incredibly bitter, even after TWENTY-THREE YEARS. It's ridiculous. And she puts me in the middle and holds resentment that I would dare have a relationship with my own father. My dad and mom can't be in the same room together, and my mom is terrified of seeing the other woman. They haven't laid eyes on each other except for attending my wedding and recently my niece's in 23 years. It's sad.

I can understand why she would feel that way in the beginning. But my dad and this woman, who became my friend over the years, have been happily married almost as long as my parents were. It's not going to end. Everyone has gone on with their lives EXCEPT my mother.

She's only hurting herself. I hope you won't hurt yourself anymore over this woman. She's getting what she deserves, I'll tell you that. And if I were her I'd be a little disturbed about my man calling his ex-wife so much.

NMY

Hi Everyone!

It's so nice to get on here find so much support! I am feeling better already, and I have to tell you all something interesting:

I met the friend of a friend a couple of days ago and we got to talking and her husband is JUST LIKE my ex - he has the exact same M.O., does the very same hurtful, sneaky things, and she is going through the exact same thing I went through when I was with him! I could completely understand how she feels, and the important thing is IT REMINDED ME OF WHAT IT'S REALLY LIKE TO BE WITH THE EX!!! I talked to this woman for hours, seems like, and after I got off the phone with her I called my mom and told her that an angel must be standing on my shoulder, that talking to that woman brought everything back: the lies, the suspicions, the control, the financial abuse, and - most of all - the emotional abuse. Whew! What was I thinking??

To Searcher: Hope you did buy yourself some flowers. You are such a caring, insightful person and you are so wise. I appreciate your honesty so much!

To Daisygirl: Thank you for being tough on me. I am counting on you during the weak moments!

To Dreamer: NEVER blame yourself. Controlling men have a way of making us feel responsible for their happiness, don't they? He still managed to control you even after you got out, and that's a shame. He was an unhappy person and you couldn't save him. It's not your fault. But I do understand how you feel. My ex would come crying after he'd done some God-Awful thing and I'd had to leave him, and I actually felt sorry for him - I couldn't stand to see him cry. I still can't. But I don't remember MY tears moving him once. I was not allowed to feel emotional or angry about anything; he would tell me he didn't love me or I was crazy or he was sick of me. But I don't remember him ever holding me and saying he was sorry. Not until I'd had to leave. I hope you will someday find peace with what happened to you.

To Dianne: I'm maintaining radio silence, and I love that expression! You are right; the last thing I need to do is call him and have it out with him and let him know what my plans are. It's kind of fun to think about what he will be imagining when he isn't in contact with me anymore! Ha!

To Not Much, You: I'm so sorry about your mom. I can understand how she feels, in a way. I have been bitter, too. But it's really sad that she hasn't been able to move past this in so many years. She deserves so much more than that. And yes, Thing will most certainly get what she deserves - probably sooner than she ever imagined.

Okay, everybody, one more question, though:

WOULD IT BE WRONG FOR ME TO THROW A PARTY WHEN THE EX AND THING BUST UP?

You could throw a party on the anniversary of your divorce, but not when they break up.

The difference: the first one celebrates your freedom and new life; the second celebrates someone else's pain.

You should celebrate joy, not pain.

I know. You're right. I wouldn't want to throw a party anyway because I'm actually beginning to feel a small amount of sympathy for this woman. I heard she is about to lose her job due to her work closing and it would be just like him to time his departure for shortly thereafter. He's not the most supportive person in the world...

Could it be that I'm beginning to see a flickering of forgiveness in my heart for this poor unfortunate woman? Not sure yet.

Let it go Beth!

Hi Beth,

My idea is - never mind forgiving this woman right now, you can do that later, right now it's more important not to be thinking of HER at all - or him. Just you and all the ways you can improve your life - glad to hear you have a friend, but build each other up encouraging one another, be careful not to get bogged down in the past - Just look up and toward your new future......

Beth, I'm glad you have a friend you can relate to. After being alone in the middle of the night, thinking too much and feeling lonely, it's nice to have someone remind you of the reasons you are going through this - AND that before long, you will feel whole, happy and ready to conquer the world - and maybe to meet Mr. Right! I am confident that you are on the right path and will have a future full of new adventures!

Daisygirl

No parties having anything to do with him and Thing. But do have a party to celebrate the fact that you CAN have a party! No one to stop you, nothing to worry about - just have a party for you and your friends to really connect again - a happy, carefree time with no mention of your 'last life' (I refer to mine as my "last life" when I have to refer to it...)

I appreciate the kind words regarding my not being responsible for what happened...it helps me to hear it. If I could just let myself believe it.

Beth, she's going to get exactly what she deserves and nothing you do or feel or not do or not feel will change that. The only thing you can change is the 'subject' and move on to your very own newer brighter, free'r, happier life.

I'm still doing okay, he called this morning and I didn't pick up the phone - YESSSSS!

I like the expression "last life". I'm just amazed that, after changing everything else about my life, I would THINK of bringing him in to wreck it. Pretty crazy. It would be like cleaning up the house from top to bottom then throwing dirt all over it. Doesn't make sense, does it?

I have been thinking about this and I realize that I've got a few more things I can change in order to make myself happier. For one thing, I work nights, so I sleep all day and I'm awake and alone all night when I'm not working. Depressing! Beginning at the first of next month, I am going on days again! And I'm stopping working so many weekends because I have some single friends and could have fun with them on the weekends if I wasn't always working.

Best of all, I have new friends to give me support and keep me on the right track. I appreciate everything you all have said.

Doin' really great Beth,

Keep it up! Did you say you were moving? I think this would also be a good idea if you could swing it - the fewer ways that he has to connect to you the better (change your phone number too if you can - you can always call Him about the kids - from a pay phone); and the fewer objects around you to remind you of him - also the better. YOur "last" or "lost" life no longer exists, so why drag it out? I always say, the cleaner the cut, the better it heals.....That's so great you're changing your hours, sounds much healthier for you at least for the present.....And also beginning to think about going out with friends!1!!Yeahhhh. And also I like your analogy - cleaning house. That's JUST the right thing to do!!!!(and of course you won't throw dirt all over it !) Instead, you're taking steps to keep it clean - a lot of steps this week, I'd say....

Then you'll be buying YOURSELF flowers, I'm thinking!

I think so too. I feel a little inspired. But I realize that I have to take this one step at a time; I can't change everything overnight. The first step was realizing that I had a problem (why do I feel like I'm in A.A.? )and the next step was not answering the phone, not calling him back. The change in work hours actually kind of got dropped in my lap yesterday, and I'm thrilled about it. My mom says she thinks since I've been working nights I'm not getting enough sunlight and that's what is making me depressed. I think she's right. I'm so tired all the time now I don't feel like doing much of anything.

I know you read my other posts on the other topic "How do you feel loved..?". I'm just in a deep rut and I really didn't even realize it. I was talking to a friend of mine about it today and she said she had noticed it because I hardly ever talk to her anymore. I hardly ever talk to anyone, really, just sit in my apartment and nap when I'm not working.

I believe I'm going to be okay. It's a step-by-step process, though, and that's hard for me because I'm not a patient person, especially with myself!

One more thing - DO find ways to reward yourself for each positive step you take. Whether it be a bubble bath, flowers, - how long has it been since you took a nice long walk by a stream, or just sat alone on a warm rock? Or roamed around the library stacks, just smelling the books? Drink your new freedom and feel the sun.

Baby Steps - that's the ticket!

Yep, baby steps. I'll get there. I try to take care of myself and give myself little luxuries every now and then. I am going to have to work through my weakness as far as my ex goes. For one thing, he lost his son - my stepson - this summer and I had been very close to my stepson, so naturally it broke my heart and made me very vulnerable to him again. The whole situation was just heartbreaking and I still feel sorry for him so I guess I just am feeling a little guilty about completely writing him off, even though I know I have to. Can you understand that feeling?

[ October 19, 2005, 01:39 AM: Message edited by: beth1119 ]

Yes - I understand that feeling. I felt the same way about my ex - so sorry for him and the way he fell apart and couldn't function - so I literally took care of him until he decided to die. The lesson I learned is the more you do for them the more they expect and they will find a way to keep control over you to the bitter end. Please let go, because you will be the one who is hurt the most, not him. I suppose I sound cold-hearted considering my situation, but it isn't that. I loved this man who hurt me for almost 34 years - never physically - emotionally and mentally. Men who do this to thier wives are unwell. Wives who let it happen over and over are unstable and insecure. Get away from it and see how much you have to offer without him - how much better you feel - how enthusiastic you are to start again. I've been there.

Dreamer

You are right. He doesn't even need me, anyway, since he has That Woman. And he has friends and family who care about him, too. I shouldn't feel guilty, and maybe it's not even guilt but my own addiction to this drama that I'm dealing with. Everyone knows I loved my stepson, and before he died I got to tell him that I loved him and that is all I really needed. Continuing to deal with Ex only prolongs the grief.

Very true. And talking about it - especially with your faceless friends right here, is so good for you. You can vent and say what you need to without reservation. You've made such a good start, you are thinking intelligently - and the more time you spend on your Ex the less time you have to move forward into the next level of your life, which will be wonderful! Really, it will!

Thanks, Dreamer. I think so, too. I'm still on "no contact" and I'm doing fine. It's been over a week since I've talked to him. I've been busy with other parts of my life; I've been trying to help a friend of mine (that's a whole other post right there - I thought MY life was a mess!) so I haven't been thinking about it very much. I am going to be fine.

Beth, staying busy is a great way to get someone "out of your system"...You ARE going to be fine, and better than fine, eventually.
Peace.

Beth1119, Its rough at first but believe me it does get easier and easier and then one day you'll realize; hey, I've moved on and am doing just fine and dandy. Bravo for your wonderful start...

Beth, I'm proud of you! Keep up the good work. And send your friend here if you want!

Thank you so much, Bluebird, Chatty, and Dotsie. The encouragement I'm getting from you guys - I swear, it has made such a difference! And today, when I was talking to my friend, I passed along some of the wisdom I've received here from everyone - you know, the advice I've received from everyone can apply to just about ANY situation - and I could tell that it helped her to feel better. I can't do much about her situation, but I can do that for her and it made me feel better, too.

Dotsie, I would LOVE to send her here because she needs this site very much, but it's impossible right now because she doesn't even have a computer. I'm thinking about adding a post, though, just to ask for prayers for her because her situation is really bad.

We're all players in the game of life - it's nice to be on THIS team.
You don't even have to ask for the prayers...as soon as you posted, the prayers started going up, I guarantee it...

Add one so we can all pray for her too and hopefully help whatever situation she is in. You are a good friend to her Beth and the good we do comes back to us ten fold....

I put up the post. I tried to explain it the best I could, but it would take pages to tell the whole story. I need prayers, too, because I'm feeling like I'm the only person she has to talk to right now, and it's overwhelming. Thanks so much for listening!

Beth,
You get many more wrinkles by frowning than with smiles. Being happy or sad is actually a choice. He made bad choice and through God, You can make good choices!
Let it all go, if you cannot forgive, how can you be forgiven. It may take you getting stronger first though. That is what I kept telling myself when I divorced after 15 yrs from a man who cheated, physically and mentally abused me and my oldest son. I hated him! I had to finally, after time, keep this in mind and forgive him through God, and then, I felt sorry for him. Three years ago he shot himself, and I had my three grown sons to deal with. Each with a different and not very good relationship with him. I was so glad I had forgiven him, finally. After five years of divorcee, I found the most wonderful man and we married a year later. We have been married 20 wonderful years. Timing! It was finally right for me! He is totally different to my EX, and most of the men I have ever known, even friends. Hang in there! Sounds like you are on the way UP! And, you deserve it!

Hi Junebug! I'm so sorry about the experience you had to go through with your ex. I'm sure the fact that you had forgiven the ex helped you be there for your children and helped them heal. Sounds like you've come a long way, and I am so happy for you!

I decided to call my ex this morning, and after exchanging small talk for a few minutes I just told him that there would be no more "dates" between him and me, that he had made his choices and that I wasn't going to play second to this woman ANY MORE. I was nice about it, I just said that I was at a point in my life where I needed to make some changes, and letting go of him was one of the changes I felt I had to make. At first he accused me of having met someone else, but I made it clear that the reason had everything to do with me and being happy with myself. It turned out to be a very nice conversation with no angry words or anything, and I felt good about it afterward.

Closure! Finally!

Isn't it amazing that he thinks he should have you AND another woman, but he doesn't want you to date! Jeesh! I had to call the police on my ex#1 because he was threatening the first guy I dated after our divorce. But he never stopped seeing his gf.

But the sad thing is, you and I allowed them to do it rather than end the relationship as soon as we found out. But hey - we know better now!

Daisygirl

Good going, Beth! I almost felt your sigh of relief...

It feels so good! I am ready to move on, and it actually feels BETTER that it isn't because I've met someone else, just that I'm improving myself! He doesn't understand that way of thinking; I don't think he's ever ended a relationship where he hasn't had someone waiting in the wings. Maybe that's why he always came back crying when I left him before - he hadn't found his replacement yet and he didn't want to be alone.

I may be alone for a while, but I'm okay with it.

beth, being alone isn't so bad. Being hurt and lonely when you're with someone is sometimes devastating. I see you as a new woman. One who is going to take charge and live life to the fullest. One who won't be held down. And that is just the beginning. Use your time alone to decide what you want out of life, relationships etc. Use it to create a lifelong dream, and live it.
I am also proud of your accomplishments. I am so happy you showed up here. Now...a question for you. What is one of your lifelong dreams?

Hanging with you
chick

beth, I don't mean this as a jab, but maybe he doesn't understand the idea of improving one's self. SOme people are of the frame of mind that they are already all they need to be. Sad, but true.

I hope you'll post in other fourms. We'd love to see you throughout the neighborhood.

Chick, great question...

Dotsie, you hit it right on the head. He ABSOLUTELY thinks he is everything he needs to be and that he doesn't need improvement.

What is my lifelong dream? To own my own home! To have my own place to do with as I please, to have a yard to plant things in and walls I can paint and hang pictures on. And I am going to realize that dream come March of next year! I'm already starting to prowl the realty websites!

After that, I'm not sure. I don't want a lot, just security.

I left my husband a couple of times, and when i heard that he had started seeing someone else, i seethed. Just raging mad. At him and at her.
Looking back, i know it was easier to be angry than accept more hurt. Maybe it's the same now with you Beth....You have been deeply, deeply hurt, seeing him with this other person cuts the wound deeper. Be gentle, kind with yourself, protect yourself,just as you would protect anyone you love.

Norma, great point. Thanks for jumping in.

Hi Norma. It IS easier to be angry. When I found out about her, I was hurt beyond belief. I cried for two days straight. Not just hurt, HUMILIATED. He actually allowed me to find out; before that I didn't have a clue. We were supposed to attend a friend of his' birthday party one night and I had gone down there earlier with another friend to help set up. He was supposed to join me later after he got off work. 7:00 p.m. rolled around, 8:00, 9:00, he still had not shown up and was not answering his cell phone. One of his friends mentioned early in the evening that he had gone to dinner with her and her husband a night or two before, when I was working, and I thought that was strange because he hadn't mentioned it. It just occurred to me to ask her WHO ELSE had gone to dinner, and she told me. I left the party and went back to the house, just devastated, to wait for him to come home. He finally came home the next morning, and it was AWFUL. He said he had been meaning to tell me, but he didn't want to HURT me!!

So yes, I was hurt and anger was soon to follow. I'm not sure why I'm not able to hate him the way I hated her. I'm working on getting over the hate I feel for her, because as much as I haven't wanted to admit it, HE is the one I should be angry at.

By the way, I've asked him several times WHY he did what he did - humiliating me in front of everyone - and he said he just didn't have an answer. He will never tell me, and that's something I will have to get over.

Beth, It just takes time to get over it. I remember when my divorce was in the process and everyone would tell me that - I was so impatient to feel better!

You are still very close to the situation. After time passes, most of the hurt will go away and you will stop thinking about it. You have been drained and you need to get filled back up. Your friends and family can help you there....and us here at BWS. After you are filled up again, you will be able to give love from a position of strength.

Daisygirl

My ex paraded his "fling" all over our small town. I was devastated too. It all comes together in the end. Just trust and keep yourself blameless, meaning don't do anything or say anything. Just watch and wait.

Beth he can't answer the WHY question for you because there never is an answer to it. They do it because they want to, they are selfish, weak stupid non-thinking, non-caring jackass's. There is no WHY because there is no reason for it and no excuse either...This too shall pass!

Beth, it is a grieving process. You are on the right track by sharing your frustration and pain. Keep it up and you will get past this.

Hi Beth, humiliation does go deeper than hurt, i think it takes raw courage to even admit to feeling this way. To be able to speak of it, and then walk with dignity takes more strength than many can possibly imagine. Maybe i'm wrong on this, but i think hate is a healthy reaction, which comes from fear. The fear of being hurt, emotionally or physically by someone who has hurt us, or those we love, or whomever. What a hard journey you are on now, may it soon get easier.

Right now I think I am working through some of the feelings I should have already dealt with. I am forcing myself to remember the bad things he did, the times I don't like to think about. It doesn't hurt so much to think about them anymore, and it helps me to put him behind me. I am strong enough now to see the situation as it really was: he was emotionally and financially abusive, he was a cheat and he was a liar. I was miserable with him about 85% of the time. Now, I see that I deserve more than 15% happiness. I've been selling myself short for a long time, but NO MORE!

Update: I finally fixed my work situation that was making me miserable. I prayed for a new job, and I got one! 5 eight hour days a week, no weekends, no holidays! I'm so happy!

hi Beth... you still on the straight and narrow? Hope so, have a good night eh, and a super day tomorrow...

Yea Beth!!!! You're on your way girl. Stay strong. You deserve the best!

Yah Beth!

Changing your work schedule will make a big difference!

Daisygirl

OH YEAHhhhh,

There's that Beth girl, just marchin' up the road! What a long way you've come since we first heard from you. You deserve to be 100% happy and YOU are going to get there!!!!

Just keep listening to these very knowing women. And of course EVERY bit of support you can get from those around you. You have amazed me . You're courageous, honest, and you're 'out there" - those who read your posts are listening to you - watching your progress and undoubtably many will follow your footsteps, so you are not only saving yourself, but others also. Buy some flowers for yourself!!!!!!Well done.

And I so hope you get your home. I would love to hear how you make it yours when the day comes....

Searcher

Wow, Beth! My ex also cheated on me. I know the sting of the other woman being smug. "She" (and I use that term loosely) used to call me up and tell me that MY husband was in love with HER and there wasn't a thing I could do about it! My husband didn't think she was doing such a thing, but I assure you she was.

You should never, never, never take this man back! He cheated on you once and now he's cheating on the woman he left you for. It's a viscious cycle and he's playing you. If's he's cheated on you and he's cheated on her, he will cheat on you again! The man is totally immature! You definitely need to stay away from him and you need to tell him that and why. He'll play you for everything you have including your dignity and you will be left emptier than you were the first time.

It does get better - I promise. There's someone else out there who's perfect for you. I never thought I'd find anyone, but I have been married for the past 25 years to a wonderful man. My ex couldn't hold a candle to this one!

Beth, remember the bad things he did and write them down. The next time you even think about contacting him...READ YOUR LIST! Still thinking about you....

Dotsie, that is exactly what I did in my first divorce. Most cheating types will try to get you to deny reality. They want to smoooze you into giving them what they want - which is take away your self respect and dignity so they can feel like the big stud. I wrote down every neglectful, hateful, and mean thing he ever did, 20 years worth. When you go back and read it and it there in black and white - you cannot deny it to yourself any longer.

Beth, I hope each day that passes you feel better and stronger. At some point you will look back at the time with your ex as a bad dream - and at some point you won't look back at all.

Daisygirl

Beth, I married (& divorced) my ex-husband 2X. Each marriage he cheated. He's now been married 5X and presently married to his 4th wife. He loved to weigh me against his paramours. It took me a long time, but I finally realized that these women simply do not measure up to me! Although the present wife earns a good deal of money, I am confident he will spend every dime he can! So let him, and she will pay heavily!

So, as you can see, men (and women) who cheat (and do not accept responsibility and attempt to change their attitudes for the better) will continue the same disruptive behavior.

Athough it does not seem so now, Beth, you will be and are much better off w/out this man in your life!

God bless you and chin up!

I kept telling my ex....I'm unhappy, the marriage isn't working, blah, blah....and then when I finally packed the son, the dog and left
him standing outside our lovely home, he called out "hey but you have my jacket on" my reply
"I'll mail it to you" and left my NJ home and headed for Florida. Over one year later, he called and told me he remodeled the bathroom, now will I come home?????? H E L L O !!! did he think that moving van, with all the furniture, was going to Fla temporarily? Dah...years later, he told me his girlfriend wanted to get married, but he had to ask "but I need to know if you are coming home"? Oh sure, I'm remarried, have a new baby, own a business here in Fl and he wants to know if I'm coming home. Some men haven't a clue!

Sandi, my x did the same thing. I also kept saying I was "thinking about divorce". When I said I was getting one, that was it - it was a done deal, but he still didn't believe it. A couple of days before I was to look at houses for sale, he sat me down and said he had talked to a mortgage co. and wanted to put my name on his house. What a moron! There was NO WAY I would hitch my horse to his wagon. I found a house that day, moved into it a month later and he still thought there was a chance for us to get back together. He didn't get it until he received a letter from my attorney. Then he came over, pleading and begging, saying he'd changed. Didn't buy it.

And my 1st husband. He wanted to get back together, even though he was still dating the woman that helped break up our marriage.

Of course, some women would've gone back and that's a problem for us women who won't stand for bad behavior from our men. When I say I will do something, whether it's going shopping, dog-sitting or getting a divorce, I do it, unless there is a true emergency. If there is a small chance I won't, then I don't say I will. In the case of my 2nd x, his x was a witch and they played mind games with each other. That's what he thought I was doing.

I'm rambling....sorry.

Daisygirl

Daisygirl: not rambling at all! That's my job!!
In any event, I hear you. And he wanted to get back while still dating the person he cheated on w/ you? Woah! That would never do.
Did I tell you before I left for Fla (4 weeks flat!) he took my car, had an accident!!!! and then said, now what? I bought a car in a flash and was still "outa there"....I mean, this is a guy who backs out of the garage with the door down!!! We women can do anything!!!

These men never seem to know a good thing when they have it and still can't get a grip when they see us going on down the road. The movie DUMB and DUMBER comes to mind. Bravo to both you ladies....You are an asset to our gender.

Thank you Chatty.

Sandi, my 2nd x actually wanted us to go to a Christian marriage retreat. LOL LOL!!! I realized though, he only wanted another opportunity to smoozze me. Once my eyes were opened, I couldn't close them again and pretend.

I do believe those retreats are very valuable and can enhance a marriage, but they can't turn a lying drunk verbal abuser into a decent human being.

Daisygirl

Oh my goodness! Does this ever bring up memories! I'm going to pass on making much of a comment to avoid the sick to my stomach feeling I get when I think about the 13+ years I suffered with a cheating husband.

All I can add is that anything so painful as the betrayal of a spouse takes a long while to overcome. The trick is not to make the same mistake again if you are interested in finding another life partner. Once I started dating again, if I was attracted to a man I thoroughly dissected him and focused on his morals and integrity more than how attractive or fun or witty he was. It narrowed the field considerably.

Tami

Tami, great idea to focus on his mroals and integrity only. I need to share this with a friend. Thank you.

You're welcome!

She might have to kiss a couple of toads but one of them will turn into a prince if she doesn't compromise on the truly important stuff!

Tami

Looks aren't everything and some of the handsomest men I know are such jerks. My problem is the man that I thought would turn into a Prince with time, went from a kinda cute toad to rthe creature from the black lagoon....

[ April 03, 2006, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]

Oh my, this brings back memories! I almost didn't accept a date from my beloved husband because he wasn't "cute". I would have missed my soul mate and the best husband a woman could have ever had. By the way, we met through our newspaper's personal ads and were married two months and two days later! Been married going on thirteen years and I don't regret one single day. To me he's the handomest man anywhere?

Happy and in love with someone who has a wonderful loving heart!

Sherri

Thats true Anne327 and unfortunately when women rush into something to soon it allows these deceitful men to keep their best foot forward tricking us into thinking they are alright guys. If kept around long enough their armor begins to tarnish and the rust shows through, so take your time and test the waters....

I was sooo gullable when I was first divorced. I thought my jerk x was the exception, that most men would be decent. Boy was I ever wrong!

Divorce happens every minute of every working day and there always are fresh victims and perps being released into the world.

People who marry after only knowing the guy only a few months are very lucky if they end up with a good one. They can fake decency for that amount of time.

Daisygirl

Anne, your comment about CSI made me laugh.

I've been happily married for 26 years. I can't imagine trying to get to the bottom of who some of these single men are. I would probably be just as inquisitive as you.

Good for you Anne327, it pays to be cautious. The one time in my always cautious, suspicious life I faltered and didn't listen to my little voice screaming at me "danger, danger!" I made the biggest mistake of my life and am still suffering the remnants of that mistake these many years later. I warn anyone out looking for love or even just companionship...GO SLOW...anne said it all, thats why these loser types are in such a hurry to pin you down so its harder, nearly impossible to get rid of them later.

The problem is that the next woman will let these boys disguised as men get by with it. How did the world get so many bad men? I know we aren't all meeting the same few.

I am still talking to my high school guy. (no he's not still in h.s., he's my age) he-he We are not really dating and have only seen each other in person one time. I now feel comfortable waiting for him to call me, and I feel just as comfortable calling him, which is something I NEVER did in the past. It's not all about the chase with him and he is giving me the opportunity to respond in my own good time. I can't predict what will happen, but it is a refreshing change.

Anne, I share your philosophy. I've been single mostly for the last 15 years and as soon as I find out they're bad, it's bbye, so long, adios, farewell....... I've been lonely sometimes, but when you're single and lonely you can do something about it.

Daisygirl

[ April 14, 2006, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: Daisygirl ]

I have to add one more type of dangerous man to the list. The closet gay who hides inside normal relationships/marriages. Personally, I think he is the most dangerous because he will bring a one or more of the other elements you have listed in as well.

They don't look gay, they don't act gay. The can play the part with the best romance you have ever had, but once they have you hooked they loose interest and it's too late.

Take all the feelings and damaged emotions that you have experienced from cheaters and liars, etc and multiply by x 10 because the 'competition' isn't even female......and people tend to look at you as if you somehow made them gay.....

There is a great tendency to go into the closet when they come out. It's sad, lonely and dangerous for the woman.

Anyway I'm soapboxing again. Just add closet gays to the list.

Least we forget the man who thinks himself a jiggolo and gets his name on all your things then goes out looking for some stripper chick to fill his fantasys. The scoundrel, the abuser, the alcoholic, the closet gay, the jiggolo and there are probably many other types out there not mentioned. No wonder women become Lesbians!!

Beth 1119, Why don't you just DO NOTHING... at least for right now... Get your bearings and heal your own heart, sure you hate her, and you have a love/hate relationship going with him. He loves to hate you and you hate to love him, but, how can you blame him for hurting you.. if you keep going back for more? As for her.... well honey as you said she is older and she ain't gettin any younger each day either! Next time he wants to come back why don't you suggest to him, he needs to stay with his OLD girlfriend because she ain't gettin any younger and you still have your life ahead of you, so you have the luxury of time on your side and decided to enjoy it?
Then do just that!!!!

I think I'll start a PI business that specializes in getting the dirt on new men. I'll call it Daisy's Dirty Laundry, Inc. - You pick 'em and we'll help 'em come clean.

Great idea Daisy!

Sherri

LOL any PI can get the dirt on men, it is called a background check.....

I like your idea, Daisy.

A close friend recently "googled" her boyfriend plus she knew his user name on match.com as that's how they met.

She found a very disturbing site with him in the nude and talking about horrible sexual things he wanted to try. What a wake up call.

I did background checks on men I was dating. And then, when David and I were dating, he ran one on me! I didn't like the turnaround but if I had the right to do it, so did he. I think he yawned a lot while reading it!

Dianne, if your name is posted on dating sites and you Google the name, doea everything you have on those sites come up?

Interesting conversation.

I guess so. If the person is using the same user name on all sites.

Daisygirl! I love that idea...what a hoot. And you've got a killer slogan, too. Go for it. Need a partner?

JJ

I'm pretty good at smelling out these stinking men so possibly I could send in my resume to Daisygirl as well, LOL

Dotsie,
If you google a screen name you will get many people with that name , you may not have the right individual, the best way to find them is to go to the directory of dating sites and inquire by the person's real name.You will then get their screen name and profile.

Chatty, why don't we just become partners, you can be in charge of the west side of the country and I'll take the east.

I'd like to add my two cents to this conversation - and it's really only two cents worth and probably nothing any of you haven't heard before.

Instead of looking for love why not let love look for you? Only a suggestions, but I found the love of my life by not looking - he found me!

Something you're passionate about? Find a forum on-line, or a discussion board that allows posts and add your input. Mine was divorce. After 13 years of a bad marriage that ended in divorce I went looking for a way to make new friends that were going through the same thing I was. Just opening up and being honest, asking questions, adding my experiences when asked without giving anything too identifying, those sorts of things, made me approachable.

What was so funny about the whole thing was there were just as many men as women that could relate to my experiences. Seems there's almost as many women out there that don't honor their marriage vows as there are men.

Once you have something in common with people it's easy to make friends. Friends stay in touch with each other, some more often than others, and more serious friendships develop with a few while the others move on. This type of forum is great for establishing friendships and e-mail can be the follow up once you're comfortable with someone. Start with a generic e-mail account, like Yahoo or HotMail, then when you're sure it's a correspondence you want to continue you can share your real e-mail if you want. The most important thing is to move VERY slow. Trust your gut..you'll know when it's a slime ball trying to move in by listening to your inner voice. Your new female friends from the same board can clue you in if they've been approached by someone too. When in doubt, don't! A polite thanks, but no thanks to an invitation to correspond by email should suffice. After all, you're still new to singlehood and aren't looking for anything right now. If he's a bad one he'll move on, if he's a good one he'll honor your request and will still communicate with you on the board.

Even if nothing comes of it, you've made new friends, probably learned a thing or two, and it's helped you heal.

Daisygirl super idea, count me in...

Tami excellent advice now if only they would follow it...

Oh my gosh, I can only imagine chatty and daisy riding around the country taking all these rotten men DOWN!!

There's a movie in there somewhere.

smile

Tami said, "Once you have something in coomon, it's easy to make frinds."

I couldn't agree more. That's why I tell women who are looking to keep doing what they like to do and the right guy will come along becasue he'll be doing the same thing.

Smile, you need to write that movie!

Dotsie,
I'm thinking something along the lines of a menopausal "Thelma and Louise" with guns and out of estrogen.

What do you think?

smile

JawJaw, you take the south, I think I'll have my hands full in the midwest and northeast.

I agree with Anne, that the absolutely worst thing you can to to these men is turn your back on them and walk away.

I am hunting for the bums in the Western states as we speak....look out you slugs here I come. Oh and I take no prisioners.

It's the Blast the Bad Boys boomer babes.

I can see chatty and daisy in low cut blouses, short fringed skirts, and cowboy boots with six-guns on their hips riding through the wild west lassoing rotten men.

Yippee Ki Ya!! Ride 'em cowboy.

smile

Yea, then we tatoo their foreheads with - well, I'll leave that to your imagination...........

I got a winner the first time around so I will not be covering the east coast. Any takers?

[ April 22, 2006, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: Dotsie ]

Okay Dotsie,
I say you and I form the 'NEAT GUY POSSE.' We could saddle up... Naw, I hate horses and there's not any horses on the freeways back east anyway so I say we get some nice red sports car convertibles...
Anyway, after we get our scout cars, we can scour the country for Neat Guys. We can travel around looking for neat guys in all the right places.
When we find them, we can tatoo a big star on their foreheads and put a nice crown on their heads so all the single girls can find them.

Boy this could be a lot of work, but I'm pretty sure we can do it.

How about it??

smile

Bet you don't run out of ink anytime soon tatooing the NICE guys...while daisy and I will need to buy a warehouse full for the BAD boys out there...

Are any of you gals aware of a site called "Don'tdatehimgirl.com"? If you have a complaint about someone who cheated or otherwise behaved abominably toward you and would like to alert other women to beware, you can post something about him on their site. It is perfectly legal as the web administrators do allow the men an opportunity to explain themselves by posting something in their own defense.

Since I have recently been through the exploration part of checking out my soon-2-b-x and knoing more about running checks on someone than I ever wanted to, may I also suggest looking into "blackbook online"? This website contains search engines that will do all kinds of checks for you. It was recommended to me by a girlfriend who used it when she was getting divorced, and I used their reverse phone lookup to check out over 60 phonecalls that my darling husband made in the course of one month to an out of state phone number I did not recognize. After I found out to whom it belonged, I was able to go back and check out phone records dating back 4 years, and discovered that this monkeybusiness had been going on all along. When I finally got a wakeup call from one woman's husband blowing the whistle on their relationship it did not come as a total shock. The website can also trace hidden bank accounts and business accounts, just in case the little darling has been keeping separate money. As distasteful as this whole thing was and still is to me, I don't think I could ever go blindly into another relationship again and would check a guy out before getting seriously involved with him.

Just some thoughts...

Foundhervoice-atlast

Well, this is a sad state of affairs, to be sure. But in absence of family and small town gossip, I'm thinking it's not a half-bad idea. (see? gossip does have it's advantages) I said before, and might possibly be saying it again, the old arranged marriages might not have been SUCH a horrible idea! Perish the thought, but........it's a scarey world out there!

Searcher

Foundhervoice-atlast, WOW if you ladies keep finding these fabulous sites these poor men won't have a chance in hell of putting anything over on us ever again, BRAVO and thanks!!! Maybe these men will finally figure out that honesty is the best policy. NAW, their just hopeless slugs.

Smile, before you tatoo them and put a crown on their heads, please introduce them to Chatty, JJ, MustangGal, me and the other single hot mamas on this site! We don't need the competition. It's rough enough out here in the dating world!


Daisygirl

Good thinking Daisy and Smile shes right as not many of us have a six foot five hunk of a man madly in love with us the way you do, sigh!!!

dontdatehimgirl.com looks liek a very successful web site. Do any of you belong?

Anne327, I'm not knowledgable enough to answer that question, but I bet our Dianne could...Dianne, you around? What a sad story for this woman and her children. And you are so right, if there aren't sites for this, there needs to be!

JJ