I am an animal lover. I have decided to start this post to gain information on an animal that I have never owned, know little of but hear all kinds of sad(attacks on people)news stories about.

What are your personal views on Pit Bulls? Anyone own one?

chick

Chick,

I'm with you on wondering. Everyone says, "it's how the dog is raised and treated"...I can't help but wonder if this is true...you never hear of Lhasa Apso's mauling someone.

I think certain breeds must be more aggressive and prone to such behaviour.

My son wanted a pitbull for Many years...we just waited through it. He ended up with a shepard blue heeler mix - a lovely tempermented dog!

(she's actually MY dog) :0)

d.

Oh my goodness, here we go again on one of those subjects that everyone hears about but no one really knows for sure. My granddaughter owns Prince a 2 year old Pit Bull. He is without a doubt the sweetest dog and thinks hes a cat becase the cat was his surogate mother when a pup and she still wacks him around BUT he is a good watch dog with an impressive bark. My son has owned 2 Pit Bulls that were both great family pets and good with the children and new baby when he was born. I took care of them when the family was away and never had a problem. I have foster several older Pits who have been lost or owners have died and they were gentle loving dogs. Unfortunately this breed was chosen by some wackos to be fighting dogs because of their massive strength and tenasity. I saw what their training (torture) consists of and any animal would go insane when the things done to these poor Pits was done to them. I have seen an child mauled by a pekinese and also was myself bitten by the nastiest little chihuahua. My own dogs both pure bred Yorkshire Terrier sisters, same litter and both raised by me as puppies and Rosee is so sweet and I trust her completely but Reeta is a snit, she allows us to love her and is loving when in the mood but I always tell people she may bite so don't pick her up. My son always asks when he comes over, "does Reeta have PMS today?" A dog is just like a person, some are naturally sweet and some are testy, no way to tell either. Any breed of dog deserves love and will give back what they get usually...

I agree with Chatty -- the only dog that ever attacked me was a 3 lb chihuahua

the pit bull DOES usually play a little harder and can hurt someone just by playing due to their "locking jaws" -- but my german shephard plays pretty rough herself and she has been raised by my pomeranians since she was 3 days old and has NO CLUE she's 60 lbs instead of 6 lbs

you just have to be very careful where you get the pit bull from -- look for a well known breeder that specializes in FAMILY dogs instead of PROTECTION dogs -- and ask for references -- check with the humane society or the district attorneys office to see how many dogs, from that breeder, have been reported as vicious

and you need to get control of the dog immediately - dog training classes - you dont have to beat a dog into submission but they do need to know that YOU are the alpha dog - they can be WONDERFUL family pets if breed and raised in a loving environment

but that can be true for any breed

A law has been proposed here to outlaw pit bulls except under certain restrictive conditions.

The reason is that at least one child in this area of about a million people has been killed by pit bulls recently and several others have been injured. A baby whose grandmother left him outside in a baby seat while she went inside to get something came out to find him being carried off by pit bulls. She chased them, but the baby was mauled and killed.
The most recent incident was about a month ago when a three year old put his hand through a chain link fence to pet the dogs in the yard next door. His arm was compeltely torn off by a pit bull as his mother tried to get his arm out of the fence. He now has only one arm. The owner insisted the dog was gentle.
As far as anyone can tell, none of the dogs were fighting dogs or were being mistreated. It seems you just never know what will tick these dogs off and that is terrifying to a grandmother.
I'm against over-legislating things, but I hate to think of anything that might endanger a child.
smile

[ June 25, 2005, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: smilinize ]

If that were the case and we let fear govern us we would have to uthanize every dog in America because it might bite....seems like I am over reacting a bit then then??? The real problem is you only hear about the BAD Pit bulls. They are news but believe me I see many other breeds put down because of bad or menacing behavior. For instance it wasn't too long ago Boxers were under attack in the South because of some instances, yep they wanted them all killed and a law issued against breeding them...where would that leave Trixter or my friend Sandys beloved boxer?? Its a crap shoot like anything else. Is the dog good or bad. Is this man faithful or a scoundral. Is this woman your friend or a user. Nothing is for sure, we have to do our best and take it one day at a time...I for one refuse to live or preach living in a bubble.

I don't trust any animal with teeth bigger than mine.
But on a serious note - I don't like pit bulls; I don't trust pit bulls; I don't want them any where near me. I had neighbors with them - I rejoiced when they moved. They didn't abuse their dogs - but they were unregistered, unlicensed, and called themselves 'breeders'. In a residential neighborhood full of small children and they had no FENCE. Glad they're gone and glad the dogs are gone, too.
People on a paper route in Florida had a pitbull...they needed a logging chain to keep it restrained. Have you ever seen the size of a logging chain?
Sorry, Chatty. We will have to disagree on this one. I see no useful purpose for this breed in this day and age. I feel sorry for them (the dogs) but they were bred to be what they are.

Maybe this is an issue of nature vs. nurture. I guess there is an on-going debate over whether any amount of nurture (either kindness or cruelty) can overcome what nature has instilled in the genes.

Reminds me of another incident that happened here a year or so ago. A lady from California established her own personal sanctuary for older exotic animals. When she came out to visit, she went into the cage with a previously gentle tiger. It killed and partially ate her.
smile

[ June 26, 2005, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: smilinize ]

I asked other half what his opinion was on Pit Bulls. He told me the story of the one he owned. Kind and gentle. His was a Staffordshire?

When I see a story on TV, BY accident, about dogs mauling, my heart goes out to the child, man, woman etc. No matter what, a piece of that same heart goes out to the animal responsible for the mauling. They showed the dog after the attack and he was just looking "normal?"

Would I own a Pit Bull? No, never. I am sorry. Too afraid.

I owned a beautiful smart Black Labrador Retriever. Grew up with the kids, and would protect me or them IF and only IF he sensed danger, which was once and that was a warning growl to someone who approached me at night from across the street.

One day, Sparky turned on me, for no reason. No one believed me and when my boyfriend(we both owned Sparky)tried to approach him, he bit his arm and ripped his pant leg. He looked savage.I watched it happen.

I immediately called the vet who said, put him down, he has a brain tumor. The rest is sad history.(20 years ago)

I can't help but wonder. Maybe this is what happens to certain breeds of pit bulls?

Surely someone would have figured this out by now, if it were true, don't you think?

Sparky went for a ride in the truck and was as normal as he was all of his life, 10 minutes after the attacks on us.

I am glad I started this Topic. It has been informative as I hoped.

I am going to continue to do more research, but I wonder...i just wonder.

chick

Dear Chicadee

You're right, any dog will turn in a heartbeat if they're sick because they feel a threat in some moment, and then they can switch back to being okay! I think what you are doing is great! So many people misunderstand large dogs.

I have never owned a pit bull but my family has owned rottweilers for the last sixteen years. With pit bulls and rottweilers they have to be trained and never let off leash without supervision if outside...it is this breeds nature, as well as other breeds nature to protect there terrain...wherever they are, whether on a walk or in the owner's house or in the yard.

Unfortunately, different breeds get a bad name because of the owner not training the dog...letting the dog run loose...not creating a secure enough yard for the dog or the dog comes from back yard breeders that don't have a clue on how to breed pit bulls ie...you have to study the lines of that particular breed as with any breed to discover the tempermant of the female's line and the male's line and their history because this will show up in the puppies.

I'm speaking about perfectly healthy dogs here to give a little understanding on how to treat pit bulls, rotti's, shepards etc. I have a german shephard myself. She's the most obedient, well trained and well liked dog. She came to me in the early nineties and she's fifteen now. She has the sweetest tempermant and loves people, even the mailman, the electrician...people she doesn't know.

In Ontario, up here in Canada, they're banning the Pit Bull because of dog attacks...the interesting thing about the attacks is they were done by dogs that had pit bull in them, they were not pure bred pit bulls, they were mongrels.

In many cases when an owner is going to buy a pure bred dog...because of the amount of money invested in them which can run into the thousands for the best line of that breed...you don't just willy nilly let them loose to create mayhem...you train them...socialize them and let them know where they stand with the family. In many cases these dogs are raised to be show dogs because of their pedigree.

Dogs are hierarchy inclined....they have to know where they stand in the pack...WITHIN A FAMILY UNIT...they are at the bottom of the pack and the master is the head of the pack.

They have to know that their survival depends on the head of the pack and thus they will be submissive to authority...they also have to be taught that the youngest child within a family is also above them in station...as this will keep the dog in its place with regard to aggression.

If different breeds are taught there place from the point of puppyhood and are treated well...their agressive tendencies can be handled with a minimum of fuss.

But there are a lot of irresponsible owners out there who aren't willing to put in the time to train their dogs and teach them the rudiments of good behaviour.

Just a few pieces of information here Chicadee. I think your studying up on dog attacks relative to the dog's brain and health is a really smart move...I don't think anyone's thought of that...I never see information like that in the papers.

With love
Leigha

Dear Chatty

You nailed it...you're right, every dog has its own personality...but I've learned with the big dogs...because they are so devoted to their owners and families that you have the greatest opportunity to work with them and socialize them because they have this amazing quality of wanting to please.

Training...training...training...they have to know who's boss and you can't divert from it. In fact most of the big breeds do better with training than without because of the nature of the breed. Rottweilers were the dogs the Romans used to carry supplies....they also like to herd.

All of our Rottweilers would constantly follow us around...watch what we're doing...poke their head in the dryer when we fill it with close..inspect grocery bags we bring in.. They would never bother anything...they were just curious and wanted to learn.

They love training because it keeps their minds occupied. Dogs need to know where they stand. They are also amazing and they'll give you whatever you put into them and whatever you expect from them.

With love
Leigha

I'm not a fan of Pitt Bulls but then, I never had one either.

Chick, did you get the bird yet? I've been out of town again.

Leigha,

PitBulls are bred to fight. Dog fighting is illegal in most every state but it doesn't stop it from happening. People don't buy pit bulls because they're cute and fluffy. They buy them because they're scary. They buy them for protection. It's unfortunate, but most often they maim family members.

I agree that dogs, especially large breeds, should be trained. But a leopard won't be turned into a house cat because he's trained.

I don't know the original purpose of the breed, but today's purpose is protection - and fighting. And they have been bred accordingly. Anyone who forgets that does so at their peril. A person might have a pit bull for years and it dies of old age never having done anything more 'deadly' than chewing shoes. But are you willing to risk someone's life on it? I'm not.

http://webninja.net/features/index.cfm

I found this page referring to the origins of pit bulls. I know more than I did; but I haven't changed my opinion.

This subject is alot like politics, there are alot of different takes on the subject and NO one pat answer. I have been a dog foster parent, trainer, breeder, lover for more years than I can remember and have had every kind of dog you can imagine mostly when fostering. I truly believe in the good in all dogs but am I careful and at times wary, you betcha I am. Use common sense with any breed and if you fear a breed stay the he!! away from that breed and buy a fish....

Dear Unique

I am aware of the pit bulls reputation because it has been bred for fighting...my response to the pit bull thread was in relationship to education...people need to be aware of the breed they have and the training involved.

If a breed exists it is better to be educated whether you own the breed or, not (ie because one has a fear of it. ie( the breed still exists...it's better to have knowledge whether you are an owner or not).

Pit Bulls create fear within people.
Any fear requires one seek knowledge to eliminate the fear. I don't know if you understand where I am coming from...I see everything from one aspect only...the spiritual aspect and power....and listening to the voice within as they are all the same thing.

Within that one does not encounter outside painful experiences. That is hard for many to understand...but once having reached that place...one sees things in an entirely different way.

In regard to me 'risking someone's life on it,' it's none of my business with regard to the decisions people make. It is their decision to be fully informed with regard to any type of decision that they make in their life.

In this world we take power away from the people by denying and getting rid of whatever can hurt other people...without teaching them how to change.

The truth is...unique that everything we experience that is negative comes from our own inability to connect with the power within...which has all knowledge...and I'm not saying this from an esoteric point of view...because I live it...it took many years to break the fear within and no longer experience pain from the outside world or horrible circumstances....

I took responsibility for my decisions and I knew where they were leading me to because I spent the time learning to see and getting every piece of information I needed along the way in order to fully make a decision that would only bring peace.

Now some would say we are responsible for other people and their pain because they don't have information or don't even think to look for it...but isn't that the case within the whole world....is everybody responsible for everyone else so no one suffers and no one has pain....no...the truth is...each individual has the ability and the power to erase the pain in their own lives and to make decisions that do not cause them pain....and that's when the real journey in life begins...when you tap inner power...until then people will always live in a crap shoot world...and again that is their choice..

Ultimately, when we realize that people are responsible for their own choices...then individually everything will change in this world...because it isn't just about pit bulls...it's about fear and all circumstances that derive from fear...but the human mind must always look outside of itself at outward circumstances, fearing to look inward to face one's own fear and thus be able to see more clearly within one's life.

There are many consciousness levels in this world Unique...the only way to address the fear and pain in this world is to address one's own...because you cannot protect the world from its fear or wrong doing...whether its breeding pit bulls which have an innate gene to fight, or fighting other people's civil wars because despots kill and starve their own people.

This game will live forever...until each individual starts seeing differently and only then can real change happen...and it will take years because of all of the different consciousness levels there's no doubt about that.
Unfortunately, people only learn from pain...

And while that's ongoing, if we take it upon ourselves to enlighten mankind..with regard to helping them to see that they must thoroughly investigate any choices that they are going to make before they take action, that's great.

With care
Leigha

Leigha, I always have to read your posts a few times for them to sink in this brain of mine. You are so wise, but here's my problem. And I know I own it.

I love to protect.

Maybe I should begin a post titled this.

Would you be kind enough to shed light on why some people enjoy protecting others?

Just reply here and if you give me the go ahead I'll begin the post in another forum.

Have you visisted the Featured Author forum this month? I'd enjoy hearing what you have to say about panic attacks.

I hope Leigha doesn't mind me posting this here but we've been PMing each other and she has helped me so much. All of her insight is based on loving knowledge, compassion and her hard learned lessons, which she so graciously shares freely. This is why I posted about her book on this site because it can and will be life or world changing if we could practice what she's learned. If, I say, because we have to be willing to go outside our box and possibly look a things differently.

It would make a wonderful thread, Dotsie. I always print out her PM's and read them again and again because although her words are deep, they are so meaningful I don't want to miss any of them!

pulled this back up because of the importance. Dotsie, maybe you could post it somewhere else or something?

Dear Dotsie

Thank you for your kind words Dotsie.

With regard to 'I love to protect', that's the first natural response which comes from the old brain. It's the warrior aspect...which I've got in spades with regard to reaction...we've all got it.

To break down what's behind the words....'I love to protect'...we have to understand that the human body is complex and fear was a prominent aspect in our ancestors lives...(if you look at history...nobody trusted anybody throughout the centuries, ie the barbarian times...Roman Times ad infinitum...all the way to today)....however trust is finally starting to grow because of education within our world and the understanding of energy.

You see our first instinct with regard to protect is a) seeing a threat & b) eliminating the threat and that is the mind's response based on a perceived threat. The ego vibration within the mind (ie: the mind vibrates at many different speeds relative to emotions...fear...happiness etc. Our feelings govern, in many cases, the vibratory rate of consciousness that we let into our minds...ie we are what we think...we are what we have learned....our dna carries the energy of all the experiences of our ancestors...which means we also carry their memories...which accounts for some deja vu experiences.)

So what we have to do is look at why we want to protect...what is in us...what fear are we experiencing on a personal level, that causes us to fear for someone else.

We also have to rationalize if the fear is warranted...is there a real problem in this moment.

Here's the big question...'How do I protect my kids without them always having to perceive that they are living in fear.'

In order to do that one must give the children the tools of understanding their own connection to the inner wisdom within....a whole new education has to develop where children are taught the power within...from an understanding of science and energy....within religion we are taught the power of God but we are never taught we have power, or that the inner voice is power and thus we still have to rely on faith....faith being that some unknown entity knows what's going on and will protect us..however that unknown entity lives outside of us.

The truth is mankind has always worked to keep power from regular people because they operate from a sense of loss within their consciousness..that's why we have the rich and the poor...the folks (going back in time, where this started..centuries ago) fought to protect themselves and saw wealth as the protection...the world has always sought wealth for protection) but today...through education we are realizing that, yes wealth can help protect us and make our lives easier...and who wouldn't want it...wealth is a wonderful thing because it can be used to help people and has been used to help people who are less fortunate.


However...when we get down to the nitty gritty...the only real protection is the voice within...and the education that allows our minds to stretch...to open old boxes of perception that need an airing because of old belief systems that aren't getting the job done.

In understanding the make-up of the human mind and the body's energetic reactions we truly have power..

With regard to 'I love to protect'...the story I lived 'SUNBLOOD' came out of that...it was actually the warrior energy to bring truth back to mankind so people would no longer be controlled through lack of knowledge, so that they could see that they can make better choices....I wrote SUNBLOOD to protect and help people...but I also realized that what I had to write to protect people had to give them 1) an awareness 2) information that they may have never seen and 3) a way to see beyond the perceptions they have today.

Those are the steps to enlightenment...enlightenment just being....the opening of the mind to new choices, choices that empower the self and choices that empower others...choices to help others grow rather than choices designed to save others from their own lack of knowledge or ignorance, choices that stop them from growing.

Choices to help others grow...gives empowerment.

Choices designed to save others from their own lack of knowledge or ignorance...choices that stop people from growing by trying to protect them from themselves...is seeing a lack of empowerment within the other person. You are not allowing them to grow...

Mind you it's important, for example with children you to teach the kids that they have choices and you have to make sure that you give the children the tools to make the right choice.

For the most part mankind believes that the tools and education come from outside ourselves...and in one part they are right...our advancement with regard to knowledge and technology has allowed our minds to expand rapidly, causes us to constantly test our belief systems and that's good...we are breaching the mind's defenses and fear.

But the inner voice, along with an education and knowledge is a journey that is fabulous, exciting and fulfilling. Within that place one does not need to find fulfillment outside of oneself...but that too is a threat to outside interests because if you can be fulfilled within you no longer need products to fulfill you.

However, we will still by products out of need, want or enjoyment and once people realize that, especially in the marketing and advertising world we will all move toward a more inward understanding and peaceful way of life...with no threat to commerce....commerce being our main source of support, and thus on the opposite end our greatest fear that that support will leave..

Ultimately, the real fear we all face underneath all of the packaging of our fears....is death...the separation of our body and spirit...that's the ultimate fear that causes us to want to protect...

So in connecting with the inner voice..over time we come to trust that voice and thus that 'fear of death fear itself' begins to leave.

It can show up periodically...but our trust in something greater eliminates the fear over time.

You see fear comes because of a catalyst, it doesn't live in you permanently, it only shows up when a catalyst threatens or reminds you of separation, and that's linked to the old brain which is linked to survival issues and that kind of energy.

People also enjoy protecting others...because they have not completed their own growth...and they fear that others do not have the knowledge that they do, or the power that they feel that have with regard to how they protect themselves. Ultimately...it's lack of trust in life...and seeing love from fear.

I say this because I've lived it...I was always terrified for my son and so I protected him...until I realized, along with help of my brother, that it was important to give my son the tools to make wise decisions and to listen within! Not to be drawn to make decisions because of others or what is outside himself!

We also want to always protect others because our consciousness is always outward bound, where the threats live, instead of inward bound where serenity and peace live.

If you'd like to start a post about why we love to protect...that's great Dotsie!

With regard to the Featured Author forum I'll have a look and see what I can give you with regard to panic attacks.

With love
Leigha

My neighbors had a pit bull that was docile and nice but I still never trusted it. The reason is that years ago when my husband was on his way to work, he was stopped at a light and a little old man was walking his poodle across the street. A pit bull came running at them from seemingly nowhere and literally grabbed the poodle by the neck, and started shaking it. My husband jumped out of his truck to help and had a stick or a bat or something and was hitting the dog to try to make it let go of the poodle. It's teeth never budged. The poor old man was beside himself. The dog never stopped until the poodle was dead. Very sad story.

Dear Dianne

Thank you for your kind words Dianne and I don't mind you posting that we've been 'PMing' each other.

I'm glad that whatever good that I can bring can be shared to help all of you lovely ladies.

Love and sharing the best of who we are and helping in any way we can....that's life isn't it...the perpetuation of the good.

Have a lovely day Dianne!

With love
Leigha

A law to eliminate ALL pit bulldogs in Oklahoma is being proposed by a state lawmaker, but animal lovers think the U.S. Constitution will be their best friend in this "dog fight."

Rep. Paul Wesselholf is drafting a bill to outlaw pit bulls statewide as he continues to help a family whose 3 year old son lost an arm in an encounter with a neighbor's four pit bulls about a month ago.

"Pit Bulls are bred to be fighters and killers," he said. Pit Bull terrier owner Marlene McCabe(Green Country American Pit Bull Terrier Club -members 25) said "they are taught to be killers."

So far the city of Denver has outlawed the breed. This OK law would grandfather in all pit bulls currently in Oklahoma. However, pit bull owners would have to sterilize their dogs which would eventually wipe out the breed.

McCabe has garhered 155 signatures to oppose legislation.

I thought I would continue to post on this subject as I am still intrigued with the idea that a gene or something(?) could be responsible for the change of behaviour in this particular breed. I have been researching and I have taken a Leigha approach in looking for answers. Somewhere in all that has been written, could lie an answer/s.

I am reading your book SUNBLOOD, Leigh also. I just started and have become totally enveloped in it. Truly Amazing.

chick

Dear Chicadee

I love the way you think with regard to helping and understanding life!

Thank you for you lovely words concerning SUNBLOOD. I am gratified that what I have lived can help and inspire and I truly hope that only good comes from it!

Your beautiful words have touched my heart Chicadee! Have a wonderful day!

Dear Leigha,

You are a breath of life and an inspiration, to all who cross your path, with an energy that journeys from sister-heart to sister-heart.

Love,Andria

Dear Chicadee/Andria

What lovely words Andria...you have no idea how much your heartfelt words mean to me. They lift my spirit and soul with joy that I can help and give love freely and with hope and beauty.

Love
Leigha

When I was growing up it was German Shepards that had a bad reputation, now it is Pit Bulls. I have been around and owned many breeds and it was a Cocker Spaniel that ripped out my knee, and the dog knew me. She had just had a litter, I wasn't even in the house, she ran to the door as my friend opened it and the dog attacked me.

I have seen the most docile breed become aggressive because of a bad owner.

I think there are some breeds that are a bit more prone to aggression, yet I know Pit Bull owners who swear their dog is the sweetest thing.

I always go with my instinct when I choose a dog and not necessarily the breed. I actually prefer mixed breeds.

I have a Mackenzie River Husky wolf mix and she is the calmest dog I have ever owned YET she did on one occassion go after my friend when my friend hugged my husband. The dog didn't bite--just a warning on the butt. However, I learned real fast that day that you can never fully anticipate what an animal will do and what will make them kick into protection mode.

Jersey, I've never heard of the breed. Is she big and does she have blue eyes. I think most dogs have a dedication to their owner i.e protection mode, but the stories of (some)Pit Bulls savagely attacking and killing humans is what pulls me to investigate the facts.
I have never been bitten by a dog, do you fear dogs now?

Leigha, your welcome. I have to ask. Do you have another book in the works? As I said before, you have an extraordinary way with words...
chick

I have 2 Yorkshire Terriers who are 8 year old sisters from the same liter. Because of my work with the SPCA and fostering they have been exposed to many different dogs. Both have been raised exactly the same in all ways yet Rosee loves everyone and is quite friendly where Reeta will get quiet and just stare and then if approached she snaps and I know she might bite. There is no reason for this difference yet there it is. I have raised German Shepherds and Dobermans who were the sweetest dogs yet very much the guard dog especially when my sons were toddlers. The dogs were very protective. NO dog breed is inherintenly bad. Sometimes its just the owners and sometimes it is something negative in the animal. Like two twin brothers raised exactly the same, one an A student the other having to struggle just to pass. Go figure!

[ August 02, 2005, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]

Chick - She is big but (125 lbs.), she does not have blue eyes. In-spite of her size you can never hear her walking around the house. My pugs are so much smaller and you always know where they are. LOL

No, I am not afraid of dogs since I have been bitten. As I have gotten older and raised more dogs, I have become better at reading them.

Here is a link I found with pictures of the Mackenzie Rivers. http://www.angelfire.com/on3/happyhuskies2/makriv.html. Mine is a dark tan and with brown eyes and a cream face.

They are real beauties Jersy Girl, so majestic looking.

I own a female pit bull, named Sheba...I raised her with TLC since she was 5 weeks old, and she is a genuine sweetheart, and a she is also a good watch dog/great protector of her master!
As for the MEAN pit bulls, most importantly is the way they are breed/their bloodlines, and then how they are raised, and treated.
It is such a shame...I have 8 adorable, loving, and sweet puppies of hers, 8 weeks old...and I am having a hard time finding them good homes~ people just don't want to "take the chance" of raising a pit bull...and I can't get renters insurance either, because I own a pit bull! PIT BULLS got a BAD RAP!

Dear Chicadee

I plan on writing more books. They're in my head right now and they'll show up at the right moment when the desire to write occurs.

I have found that with anything there is a time and season because one's path in life strangely enough is already marked...we tend to just discover it.

With regard to saying it is already marked. When you make a decision you create a line of energy where all the events that are required already begin to form...you just have to keep going and stay on that line of energy until you get the outcome. It is only in changing the mind that we start many other lines of energy and experience other events. To some this would appear as chaos.

The masters within time have always understood that mastery of the mind and one's choices brings the intended outcome of anything we seek. So it is in our best interests not to let chaos guide our mind thinking that life is outside of us and that we have no power over the events in our lives. We have a choice! And that is the greatest gift that we could ever have...the ability to choose the life we wish to lead.

Mind you, I will write the sequel to Sunblood, and there's a book I'm going to write with my brother Duke. He's quite a bit like me with regard to his awareness, but he has a greater gift in the sense that when he speaks, he speaks in such a way as to help people remove any blocks in their path, psyche or emotions so that they can see a clear way in their life with regard to almost anything.

He's very good at helping people ground spirituality into action, which is where many people get caught because many teachings in this world just stop at spirituality. They don't teach people how to use this spirituality in everday life in mundane or important matters.

It will be awhile though before the next book is out. The anvil of time does not live within the heart of life, and so the moment gives it's precious light to the awareness of those that listen. And thus I will only know in the moment when the heart's desire begins to rise and truth rears its head. And then the story begins.....

Thanks for asking Chicadee and thank you for your kind words!

With love
Leigha

My son just purchased a 6 week old Pit Bull puppy he named Taz. He comes from a breeder that has raised the breed for 20 some years and not one of his dogs has EVER been involved in any mishaps, they all had wonderful families and most died of plain old age. It takes a good owner to have a good dog. I raised Dobermans back when they were considered to be the VICIOUS and untrustworthy dogs. Hah, what a hoot. My 7 were lap dogs and were no different than my Yorkies except in size of course. I suggest each person only buy the animal they like, can handle and then pray that no fool antagonizes them so they might bite....

I've had three Dobies and they are doll babies. Big and scary looking but far from that really. One big male named Mookie Wilson used to ride in my convertible with me. He had his own sun visor, which made him look super cool.

I wanted to add that Sammie is now calling Vino. What a crack up!

Leigha, I am still reading Sunblood. I patiently await its sequel. Let us know when you and your brother publish your book. Yes, I will patiently wait that one too.
Thank you for all your pit-bull stories. I am also looking for information on any pit Bull that was "lovingly" raised and turned on it's owner or another. Does anyone have sound (proof) info on this. Do you know of anyone I could contact or better, would contact me?
I am thinking of interviewing some Vets too.
chick

Chickadee is it just Stafforshire Terriers (Pit Bulls) you are targeting or would you like stories of ALL the other breed of dogs that have turned on their owners for whatever reason? One of the worstg cases ever recorded was in Indiana some years back where 3 beautiful, pedigree adult Boxers turned on their owner and ripped her savagedly to shreds, she was dead and they killed the 3 dogs as well. There are numerous examples of dozens of breeds that have turned do we rid the world of all dogs???? What about nasty cat attacks? Or biting birds? See where this can lead? In the scheme of things this is a very minut occurance when you think of the millions of wonderful loving pets in this world.

It just upsets me that this breed has been chosen by HUMANS to turn into killers and fighters for greed and nothing more and I have seen the carnige left behind not by the poor defenseless dogs but by the HUMANS praying upon them because they are so strong in body and have such heart. They are targeted not because of anything they have done but from what has been done to them for too many years. I wish I could show you what these dogs go through from birth to be turned into killers. It is so horrible and so terribly cruel. Maybe trying to find out about all the good Pit Bulls that are out there would be a better book to write, or about the inhumanity and greed that some souless MEN posses that has caused all the hurt by the innocents who have suffered from cantact with a few of these dogs. I personally don't like the look of this breed and would not own one even though I have fostered two in the past who were abused ad still loving to those around them. I like little dogs now, fuzzy ones...Sorry, I will step off this soap box....

[ August 06, 2005, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]

BITING BIRDS? Okay, I won't tell Sammie you even mentioned this. You are the president of her Vegas Fan Club, right? Or is that your ex husband who is?

Its me I'm her fan club President but my ex has talked about her alot at his office and they are always asking about her. We rarely speak, he and I but every now and then he'll call and ask if Sammie has done anything funny lately? The girls in his office ask him to find out. The Nursing home staff and residents are also in her fan club....

Okay, here is some more news on her. When I was gone she must have gotten tired of hanging around her cage so she jumped off and walked on the floor, following my daughter all over the house. Brandi said it was so cute. Followed her into the bathroom, around the kitchen and everywhere she went. My grandsons were here so of course, Sammie is now calling, "Aunt Brandi, where are you?"

I keep her cage covered in the mornings until I've fed the dogs and she starts out real sweet and soft saying, "Hello. Bonjour. Good Morning." Then she gets irritated with me and yells, "DIANNE!" I know it's time to uncover the cage and feed her. She's very bossy.

She's also singing the first part of an Usher song. Not sure where she heard it but it's cute.

Dear Chatty,
I owned a chow-chow in the seventies. He looked like a darling black teddy bear. I put him through obedience school. He was very good at it. Some judges were afraid to handle him. Chin Lee knew it, but stood for it. I was always very careful with him and respected his temprament. He was loving with me, but took nothing from no one else, even my children. I had him on a chain one day (briefly) and the neighbor boy, about 12, came and beat him with a stick. I ran the boy off, but he came back later. Chin stood at the back of his chain with about three foot of it laying down on the ground. He stood there waiting and I started running. The boy got there first and Chin jumped him with the extra chain to use. I yanked him off the kid with the chain. The boy was only frightened, had in fact turned his back instinctively when the dog jumped.
I knew then the dog did not belong in a home, no matter how much I loved him. I sold him as a junk yard dog. (no kidding) I knew at some point I would be sued. It was very sad and I will never forget Chin Lee. I always hope to be in a situation where I can have another Chow, but the world is worse about it, not better.
Another strange case was a Cairn Terrier I owned. (I used to breed and show dogs) She was chained too (Some people learn the hard way about chains, I am one of them.) I owned a horse with an electric fence. It was thunderstorming. The dog got it's chain wrapped around the fence. I was in the house and wondered what that weird screaming was. I ran out to disconnect the fence. Dummy me and poor animal, I had stacked hay over the shut off. Can you beleive it?? Anyway, I am slinging hay everywhere and got it shut off. The dog seemed okay, never even passed out. She developed some strange habits later, (thought she was nursing puppies for one) and began attacking only the men in the family. I sold her to a breeder where she would not have family contact. She had pedigree out the ying-yang.
So those are my sad tales. It seems that the biggest part of animals' problems are human.
Thanks for the topic!
Renegade

Renegade,I appreciate your post, as heart-breaking as it was for you to write.

I am currently researching and concentrating on the American Pit Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier and Staffordshire Bull Terrier plus any mix of the above, but you are also welcome to post stories about any breed that attacked and mauled without provocation.

chick

[ August 07, 2005, 04:34 AM: Message edited by: chickadee ]

Chickadee may I inquire as to why you are writing this book? Why this breed in particular?
Also do you yourself have any pets? Just curious.

[ August 07, 2005, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]

Chatty, I am not writing a book. I am curious why "some dogs" attack without provocation. It happened to me. There is a lot of info but I am not satisfied with the answers so I have been researching.
Currently I own a little dog, Buddy, and a cockatiel, Bunny, who by the way gives me kisses now.

Bunny kisses now?

I'm not sure if I ever posted this but I had a girls night at the house and Sammie was out, on her perch and this one gal kept messing with her and was putting grapes in her mouth, letting Sammie take them and I kept telling her to be careful because African Grey's like to lure you in and then, they bite! She said, oh Sammie wouldn't do that to me! So later, I notice that this gal had left while I was in the bathroom and her sister said she got a call and had to leave. I later learned that Sammie had finally gotten fed up with the game and taken a chunk out of her upper lip! She didn't want me to know because I had warned her.

Well you know what they say, once an animal/bird has tasted blood they are man eaters, lol...
Now he may end up on the exterminate list as well...Oh my poor dear Sammie....I gues any animal/bird will attack. I have to rethink all that I have learned all these many years I guess. Oh and yes Chickadee I am sorry, I remember you have bunny, dah! momentary brain drain... Personally I would have bitten her too>

I believe some dogs are biters ( and ANY dog can bite) because their line was too inbred. I had a boxer who are known for being good with children and she bit 2 people, and came close to biting me and others and I was afraid of her. I couldn't keep her because my toddler grandson visits me a lot and I had to protect him from getting attacked. My neighbors were relieved also. I got her as a pup and as far as I know, she was never harmed in any way.

I believe in personal responsibility, but it doesn't bother me too much that some cities are outlawing Pits. People need to be free to walk down the street without getting attacked. Although I must admit, I am concerned that the government will get carried away and outlaw other dogs that don't deserve it. If I had a Pit I loved and was part of my family, and they were outlawed in my town because there was a serious problem, with people getting attacked, etc., I would understand and just move to an area where they were legal.

Owners need to be responsible for their animals. Two years ago my son moved back in, and brought his pit bull with him.
Roscoe fit right into your palm at the time. That's no longer the case.
We have had two attacks in our area, one involved the older lady walking her Shih Tzu dog. Both pits attacked her dog, she tried to pull them apart and was also attacked. If, I remember correctly this happened out in Partlow.
Point of the matter is the woman who owned the pits had been warned several times to keep her dogs up. No heed was given to that request.
Animals are not capable of taking care of themselves, responsible adults need to.
Roscoe is never taken outside, without a collar and leash, plus a responsible adult holding that leash. Large cage handy, in case he doesn't want to listen to commands, or while others who are frightened of him are present in our home.
More need to be frightened of my 5lb. Min-Pin Girl than of Ross, she thinks she twice his size, I know her attitude is. Yes, she has her own little cage. Then, Bridgett my 11 year old Shih Tzu, what a sweet natured dog she is.
Truth be told owners need to be responsible, they know the temperment of their animals, and how they have been rasied.

Brenda

Don't you agree that with any breed beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Kid of like with people. LOL

Chatty, that's so true! I love boxers and some people do not think they are beautiful, but I do. Maybe because,like people, liking a breed has as much to do about personality than actual appearance.

Daisygirl

I always was a German Shepard and Doberman person and had a St. Bernard once and talk about drool but was she ever the cutest ball of fur. Then met a woman years later who was a Vet and owner of a large breeding kennel for Chihuahuas. Yorkshire Terriers and Tea Cup Toy Poodles...I became nuts about little dogs then too. But since I have been fostering for the ASPCA and SPCA and have taken in nearly ever breed possible in these many years I have learned to love and appreciate them all, some are scarier than others but ALL have responded to the love shown them and food, lots and lots of food, LOL

[ October 06, 2005, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]

I have a scab on the end of my nose. Sammie wasn't happy with me and bit me! Bad bird.

Hey! I started working on my Sammie The Parrot book! Plus Chatty, I set up the camcorder in the kitchen and left it on. Haven't had time to check if she was talking or not but if she did, I'll send you a copy!

Oh thats marvelous but how much do you want to bet she remains silent? She is far to smart for her own good. Maybe tell her shes going to be a star. Gotta love this bird...

Something interesting. Sammie is always calling my daughter's name and asking, where are you? Since she's been gone, Sammie hasn't said her name once, which shows she's not just imitating anyone. She knows she's not here.

Dianne, that's gotta be kind of sad...

I think it would be harder on me if she did call her name. Sammie's intellect amazes me.

Sammie is an amazing bird, Dianne. She is always doing something different. I love hearing your stories about her.

I just had to bring this up...I forgot to tell you gals about it. It happened before my fishing trip a few weeks ago.

I walked out the door to go to work at 7:AM, opened the gate, stood for a sec making sure I had my keys in my pocket when I looked down to find a six wk? old puppy at my feet.His tail was wagging as fast as it could and he was jumping up on my legs. I looked around for an owner(?)picked him up and...Gosh, he was just beautiful. Tan colour with the bluest eyes I have seen on a dog. I went back in the house, called MOH (my other half) who was still sleeping, from working the night shift and said. Look what I found, can we keep him... we're keeping him(?)his name is Blue. Sure, can't see why not Mr. sleepyhead said. Put him and Buddy(my Dog) in the yard so they can play together. Looks like a pitbull to me, he said....My heart sank. We're not keeping him, I said. I can't...I just can't.

I poured some food and water for the starving little thing and left him and a happy Buddy playing together in the yard. At 12 noon I got a call at work from MOH. He said "I found someone at work who wants the Dog. He is a good family guy and has been looking for a pitbull. I was sooo happy that I didn't have to go home and face watching that puppy leave.
All my research on Pit Bulls and one lands in my lap(pun?)...uncanny.

I just couldn't find a way to feel right about having a Pit Bull. I guess it goes back to my previous story about my Lab attacking me(he had a brain tumor) and researching and wondering why it happened.
So it's No Pit Bull for me...but he WAS the cutest thing I've laid eyes on.

chick

Chick,

My son has a Pit-bull, ok let's change that...my son has a Pit-bull that I take care of.
When he first brought him to the house, he fit right into the palm of your hand.

Now, at 2 years old he is much larger, and so gentle. What facial expressions he has, I keep calling him Groucho, he has the eyebrows that go up and down when your talking to him.

Most aggressive Pits are trained to be that way. Sometimes the owner plays too aggressively and the pet learns to be aggressive. Or, no instruction is given to the pet. Roscoe has always been talked to firmly when he misbehaved, and plenty of love and kisses when he was the good boy. His brother on the other hand was raised by a young man who ruff-housed, hardly spent time with the animal, plus he was chained and spent summer and winter outside.
He stayed there just a little over a year, and was dropped off at the animal shelter.
I truly believe it has to do with how they are raised.

It so funny, I also have a little Mini Pincher, 7 lbs. max. She is so mean to Roscoe, every time he comes out of his cage, she runs in and takes his bone, (half the time barely dragging it along) he comes back and she growls like she's going to eat him up. So, Ross just throws those ears back to the top of his head runs to his cage and sits and pouts. They truly are just big babies...if you raise them as such.

Loyal and true blue...he waits to hear his daddy's car come down the street at 4:30. Smells his shoes, coat, hat you name it. When he walks in the door, no one in the world exits except the two of them.

Did you have had a bad experience with a Pit at one time or another?

I am in contact with Pit Bulls on occasion because I take my dogs to the dog park. Some are great and some aren't. One guy puts his in the park and he sits outside and lets the dog do whatever he wants, which is mostly humping, which as you know, is a domination thing for dogs. I don't allow that to happen to Daisy or Asia, when another dog is intimidating I take them for a walk to the other side of the park. Mostly, when there are problems, it's very evident that the owner is at fault.

Daisygirl

hello everyone
I am new here, decided to post in this topic (even though it's rather old)
but I care about this issue a lot.

here is what I think - and I would LOVE to hear back your opinions

I think if someone has a dog, no matter what breed that dog is, and s/he loves that dog,
I mean LOVES (that includes proper training too) and not treating it as a toy, I see no reason this dog turns into a monster. Even if it's such a scarry looking dog like a pit-bull.
I agree - you never know what to expect from a dog, especially from a dog of a big size with big scarry teeth, but hey sometimes (quite often) we do not know what to expect from people !! and not always appearance is what frightens or allerts us. should we ban that kind of ppl too? Seriously, I think that people who train dogs to be monsters should be banned (and also be afraid of) rather than pit-bulls.

Looks like soemone got a pit bull for Christmas?

We have a cockapoo and we adore her. She is loving, cuddly, tender, devoted, adorable, and the list goes on. But we have to watch her around little children because when they make quick, jerky moves it scares her and she snaps. It's so out of character for her, but we've seen it through the years.

This doesn't look like a Pit bull pup but it is a cutie whatever breed it is. My grandaughters Pit Bull Prince, he's 4 years old was in the middle of all the confusion at my sons on Christmas playing with my sons new puppy who is now 3 months and already 40 pounds, a Mastiff. I would trust Prince anytime, anywhere, he is a wonderful pet and always has been. I also know of and have been with many other loving wonderful Pit Bulls. So YES lius, you are correct in saying its the jackass's that make them mean and brutalize them from birth to fight them that should be euthaniuzed and not too gently either...Teach and give a dog, any dog nothing but love and they will give love back.

we have had a long line of german shepherds, also a very intimidating dog. we usually have two of them but right now have a shepherd and a border collie.

we like the fact that people back away from our dogs and property but would never keep a mean dog on the place. one night this fall, a young guy who deer hunts here, came to the house to talk to me. he was petting Sage, the shep., when i opened the door and he said, "this is the nicest scary looking dog i've ever seen!" she is 3 years old, a sable with gorgeous markings (tiger stripes on the shoulders)and a little on the spooky side to those who don't know her. she is also one of the gentlest dogs we've ever had but will growl at strangers when i'm in the house alone.

bottom line is, though, that i will never tell anyone that my dog will not bite. i prefer to let most people think she really is scary. if they keep their distance, she is less likely to have enough contact with them to get defensive or startled into a biting situation. i always keep a very close watch on children with her and hold her when they pet her because kids can do things unintentionally that will scare a dog into defensive action. it is always better to be cautious with any breed of dog and people they don't know. they are all pack animals and will take action when their "pack" is under a perceived threat.

[ December 28, 2005, 03:31 AM: Message edited by: flipperjo ]

I agree that any animal that is raised with a lot of love and kindness will turn out just that way no matter what breed of dog they are.

That sure is a cute puppy that made me smile just seeing the picture of it.

Thank you for your response.
I think that baby is a pit-bull, I think
she or he will look like this when grown up



If you love your dog, you will receive back nothing but love. That's true.. When I first saw my brother's amstaff I thought he was very cute while he was still a puppy. But when he got bigger... I thought like - OMG - this dog IS scarry, what if smth gets into him and he bites me with those crocodile looking jaws.... but you know all those fears vanished as soon as I saw Dan in action. What a kid! That "monster" was chasing his tail, singing along with the radio,
racing, jumping - and his eyes were sparkling with happiness. Ohhh I felt such a shame to think bad of him. Sorry, Dan !

well, with 5 pages of posts there probably really arent any other points that need to be made here, but i'll put my two cents in anyway...a pitt is not neccesarily a dog breed i would go out & get for myself, but i also dont agree with legislating people's pet choices. i spent about 20 years working with animals for a vet clinic, a boarding kennel & a show/breeding kennel(german shepherds). the owner of the boarding kennel owned 2 pitts & they were very friendly towards people...wouldn't put them in the yard with another dog tho. one thing about a boarding kennel is you get to work with almost every breed there is. i've been bitten by more dachshunds, chihuahuas & cats than any of the pitts i worked with ever even thought about...and to this day i wont trust a chow as far as i can throw him(sorry to any chow lovers...)
pitts have a bad rep because of the types of people that own them. early training is a must, as well as getting one from a reputable breeder who breeds family & not protection/fighting dogs. how you raise the dog goes a long way, but you cant discount genetics.

I would trust my granddaughters nine year old Pit Bull, Prince with visitors in my home before I would trust my own Yorkie Reeta. Pricne is a big baby, good watch dog and the little dogs climb all over him. My two Yorkies are from the same litter, sisters, raised the same way but their personalities are very different. You just have to be careful and do the best you can with whatever breed you have. Love goes a long way in molding a dogs character. Or a persons character for that matter.

[ April 13, 2006, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]

I know little about dogs, but I wonder if some of the problem with pitts and other large breeds is that people fear them and they sense it.

I know from growing up on a farm that even the calmest of animals will attack if they sense panic. There have been several children killed and maimed around here lately. I wonder if the dog starts out playing with the child then accidentally frightens it and sensing the child's fear, injures or kills it.

But that does not explain the baby in a carseat on a front porch dragged off and killed as the grandmother tried to get it away from the pitt. Or child that stuck his arm through the fence to pet a pitt bull and the dog tore his arm completely off before the mother could get him out of the fence.

Oh well, it was just a theory. The owners of both of those dogs were on TV telling how gentle their dog had always been. And how good they were with kids. ??

smile

well i think they definately sense any fear or other emotion you may be feeling. and large powerful dogs seem to bring that out in people, especially if the dog considers himself the alpha & has never been made to see otherwise. thats why training & establishing your position as leader of the pack is so important early. i should also add that neutering goes a long way too, especially if you dont wait past about 6 months of age or so to do it. once they have the idea that theyre top dog, they can be a bit harder to deal with.
when i worked for the dog breeder we had a Malinois in for some show training. if you dont know, they are one of the belgian shepherd breeds becoming a little more popular in the US due to the increase in their use in protection work and as police dogs. theyre about the size of a german shepherd but he males tend to be a little more muscular (esp if not nuetered), almost but not quite like a pittbull. anyway, i had this dog out in the yard one day while i cleaned his run, then he refused to go back in when i was finished. well i did what i always did with the german shepherds when they wouldnt go where i wanted them to, got him by the scruff of the neck with both hands & started guiding him back to the run & he just kinda flipped out on me. my forearm looked kinda like hamburger when he was finished gnawing on it. they actually found a baby tooth in my arm when they cleaned it out at the hospital. he was only about a year old. BUT he had never been treated like anything but the alpha dog, and he sure didnt like it when i tried to assume that position. thats what his owner kept saying "but he's a dominant male"...plus he (owner) was kind of an ass about me even going to the hosp because he had to jump through hoops to keep the dog from going into quarantine at the pound....just goes to show ya how much of it really has to do with the owners & not so much the dog.

Well we could go on and on about this all day more than one breed has been thought vicious from time to time. Several years ago 4 boxers in Indiana (sorry Trixster) were walking the beach with their owner as they had done for 6 years when one suddenly turned and attacked her then they all joined in. She was of course killed and when found the dogs were all around her protecting her remains from the police, the dogs had to be shot. Dobermans had a bad rap for years and still do with some people...Oh and least we forget the Rottweilers they can also be vicious, hey so can a chihuahua. Chowhuahua, if you were use to handling alpha males you should have known your actions to that dog were confrontational...sorry you were bitten but!!! I have been handling so called 'vicious dogs' for over 30 years now, dogs that have been starved, beaten, mamed, tortured by humans or just plain wild dogs never owned by anyone and were thought lost causes. Out of about 60 or so only half a dozen were euthanized because they could not be controled or gentled with time and attention, their abuse had been too grave for too long. I tell my friends and colleagues, "its a crap shot," and it is too. Of my own two Yorkies both less than 10 pounds, one is gentle and sweet while the other I don't trust around strangers. Both raised exactly the same way yet the older one (by 16 minutes) is the protecter. All I advise is too be careful and avoid large dogs you don't know well...and keep your face away from small cutsy dogs too.

[ April 13, 2006, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]

Chatty, sounds like dogs are a lot like humans. They are born with a temperment and soemtimes it doesn't matter who raises them.

But you already knew dogs were like humans...

I have to disagree with you on one point. Dogs and cats are far better than the average human. They are totally devoted, honest, compassinate, and love us to a fault no matter who else may come along. There only agenda is love and to protect us. All they need is a pat in the head or scratch behind the ear. Not too many humans I know posses those qualities, most are in it to see whats in it for them?

[ April 15, 2006, 08:01 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]